You're the D-Coordinator: How do we manufacture a pass rush?

[Mahons21]

Greg cossell on 980 right now, discussing the d.

In short, theres no talent, and it's not on haslett based on his film analysis.

[KDawg]

Greg cossell on 980 right now, discussing the d.

In short, theres no talent, and it's not on haslett based on his film analysis.

While I agree there is little talent, Haslett shops for the groceries. And his play calling has been less than stellar.

[afkidd]

this is what i would do.

a) this defense is done for this year, outside of magically getting rak, carriker and the safeties back, nothing will improve it. there's not much talent going on there. so it will take an offseason to fix it.

sign Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie, James Laurinaitis, Alan Branch for league minimums. Photoshop players with owners wives to make sure they can't find a job elsewhere, draft John Jenkins from Ga somehow, perhaps the S from Fl. Have a voodoo doctor sprinkle some dust on Rak's nipples so he doesn't tear his pec again.

c) blitz?

d) profit.

[Mahons21]

While I agree there is little talent, Haslett shops for the groceries. And his play calling has been less than stellar.

I know what you feel. I was simply posting what Greg cossell thinks, which happens to be in agreement with points I've continually made.

He calls hall our best corner, average at best.

Points to shuffling pieces, and going back and forth between heavy blitzing/heavy coverage as evidence that haslett is trying to get something out this unit, it just may not be possible.

I'm sure 980 will have it on their website later, worth a listen.

[righteousbowi]

If Im the new D. Cord. My solution would be very simple. 1st down, blizt em, 2nd down blizt em, 3rd down....blizt em....4th down blizt qb on sidelines. Inspired by the Late Jim Johnson and Bangs cartoon with the David car Simulator.

[Forehead]

I'm sure this has already been said but I didn't want to read through 100 responses worth of ideas and arguments and insults. I'd pretty much send 5/6 guys on each play, usually the outside backers or a combination of Riley and one of the outside backers. If the CB's are up to it (I know it isn't their style), have them jam at the line as best they can, use the safeties in a cover 2/over the top of the CB's and use Fletcher to cover the middle. Alternate between Fletcher or the OLB that didn't rush covering the TE, if applicable.

I don't know all the terminology and I'm sure this opens up a **** ton of holes for the other team to exploit. All I'm trying to accomplish with this is:

1) QB Pressure, I don't care if the OLB's rush outside, stunt inside, or if an ILB goes inside while an OLB goes outside and the other one drops into coverage. Try to limit how comfortable the QB is.

2) Hope that the NT/DE are mostly in 1 on 1 blocking situations and can create a stacking effect to limit runs up the middle and create too much traffic for a RB to exploit. Even so, I'm generally comfortable with Fletcher in a one on one situation as long as he's not flat footed and has an angle.

3) If the QB gets the pass off, hopefully it was fast enough that the receivers didn't have time to avoid the jam and get 20 yards downfield.

This defense would probably suck, but I'm trying to figure out a way to get pressure and limit the amount of available field for the other QB to work with. If they score, at least make them take 10+ plays to do it, dinking and dunking their way down. A bend and eventually break style. Along the way, lay the wood whereever you can and hopefully force a mistake or two, and hope Griffin and the offense can keep up. I really have no idea.

[drtdrums]

Fire everything!!!

Haha. More this:

Cannon to right of them,

Cannon to left of them,

Cannon in front of them

Volley’d and thunder’d;

Storm’d at with shot and shell,

Boldly they rode and well,

Into the jaws of Death,

Into the mouth of Hell

I don't want to completely abandon coverage. Just constant application of pressure from different areas.

[SkinFaninOKC]

1. The CB's will play press coverage.

2. Move Kerrigan around, right side, left side, NT, DE, line him up outside with a safety showing blitz. Mix it up with blitzing and drop backs.

3. I know I will get killed for this but mix in a 4-3 formation a few times. I know it's so Madden but at this point a little variation wouldn't hurt.

4. Dime packages lining up safeties at the OLB's. The speed on the outside could cause a problem.

[KDawg]

1. The CB's will play press coverage.

2. Move Kerrigan around, right side, left side, NT, DE, line him up outside with a safety showing blitz. Mix it up with blitzing and drop backs.

3. I know I will get killed for this but mix in a 4-3 formation a few times. I know it's so Madden but at this point a little variation wouldn't hurt.

4. Dime packages lining up safeties at the OLB's. The speed on the outside could cause a problem.

Here's how, as an OC, I'd counter your moves:

1) Excellent. The Redskins aren't very good with press coverage, so hopefully my slot receiver gets off free and forces the safety over the top. If my X can get a halfway decent release on a drag route its my X all alone with your corner.

2) Kerrigan is moving around. Damnit. Alright. OL, find 91 every play and point him out. If he's at nose, we should be able to get a double team on him. I'm not sure Riley or Fletch are going to be able to make every play, and by blowing Kerrigan back we should at least get 2-3 yards. Also, I'll identify who you put in for Kerrigan at OLB. If it's a guy who is generally not strong against the run or in coverage, I'll attack that way as well.

3) They're playing their regular nickel front.

4) Safeties at OLBs? That means Kerrigan is on the defensive line... Or he's out. Excellent. We've forced them into a lesser skilled package. Those 3rd/4th safeties/corners out there don't scare me in the least, especially considering their starters at safety and corner aren't all that intimidating!

[SkinFaninOKC]

Here's how, as an OC, I'd counter your moves:

1) Excellent. The Redskins aren't very good with press coverage, so hopefully my slot receiver gets off free and forces the safety over the top. If my X can get a halfway decent release on a drag route its my X all alone with your corner.

2) Kerrigan is moving around. Damnit. Alright. OL, find 91 every play and point him out. If he's at nose, we should be able to get a double team on him. I'm not sure Riley or Fletch are going to be able to make every play, and by blowing Kerrigan back we should at least get 2-3 yards. Also, I'll identify who you put in for Kerrigan at OLB. If it's a guy who is generally not strong against the run or in coverage, I'll attack that way as well.

3) They're playing their regular nickel front.

4) Safeties at OLBs? That means Kerrigan is on the defensive line... Or he's out. Excellent. We've forced them into a lesser skilled package. Those 3rd/4th safeties/corners out there don't scare me in the least, especially considering their starters at safety and corner aren't all that intimidating!

1. I know our CB's aren't good at press coverage but at least they still have the 5 yards to bump the WR. Disrupting the WR's might help. It's something I would try more frequently.

3. The 4-3 maybe their nickel front but I meant the base 4-3, Kerrigan as a DE. Yes he could get doubled but he is capable of knocking down and or intercepting (a rare feat for a DL). Maybe stunting would help and blitz a safety? Jenkins could be effective at the other end with Bowen and Cofield in the middle. I agree with you about the personnel we have lacking the depth to go to a 4-3. Variation may not confuse the other team but they won't game plan for it since it's not our base defense.

4. With the safeties as OLB's, yes Kerrigan would be on the line or play one of the MLB's, not his natural position, but just a different look.

[Enter Apotheosis]

3. The 4-3 maybe their nickel front but I meant the base 4-3, Kerrigan as a DE. Yes he could get doubled but he is capable of knocking down and or intercepting (a rare feat for a DL). Maybe stunting would help and blitz a safety? Jenkins could be effective at the other end with Bowen and Cofield in the middle. I agree with you about the personnel we have lacking the depth to go to a 4-3. Variation may not confuse the other team but they won't game plan for it since it's not our base defense.

What I'd like to see you articulate is what advantages you'd expect going to 4-3 looks to confer to our defense over a more standard 3-4 look.

[MustangSteve]

Orakpo and Kerrigan both weigh about 260. We wouldn't be able to stop the run with them at defensive end.

But then again, with Griffin at the helm on offense, we could do what the Colts did with Manning. Build your team to take early leads, and get after the quarterback when they try to come from behind.

This is the same weight Dexter Manley and Charles Mann weighed and our defense was ferocious against the run, sacking QB's and made it much easier for an already very good secondary. If Gibbs or Petitbone would have moved them to LB's, our D would have been ripped apart, just like it's getting now days.

---------- Post added October-31st-2012 at 09:05 PM ----------

Orakpo and Kerrigan both weigh about 260. We wouldn't be able to stop the run with them at defensive end.

But then again, with Griffin at the helm on offense, we could do what the Colts did with Manning. Build your team to take early leads, and get after the quarterback when they try to come from behind.

It is a shame you young fans never got to see and enjoy the mania of the 80's and 90's, and how dominant our offense, defense and special teams were for a decade. In 91 the Redskins were the 1st team to ever enter the Super Bowl rated #1 in all 3 phases of the game, Offense, Defense and Special Teams. The 91 Redskins were the most dominant team to ever step onto the field, they literally beat teams half to death, physically and scoring on and against. No team could score even a field goal against us until the 4th game at RFK. Thats true home field advantage my man!

[Mahons21]

If I was moving Kerrigan around, I'd try and mix it up and at times drop him into coverage while brining a heavy overload from the other side. I'd use a 3-3-5 look and send him on delayed blitzes from one of the LB positions. I'd have him line up in gaps between DL and then stunt to the outside. Essentially I would try to use their willingness/desire to have Kerrigan out of the play against them.

[Saqs]

Again, Haslett is stuck in a catch 22 with this limited and injured group. Blitzing with slow, unathletic blitzers leaves a terrible secondary extremely exposed and at risk. Sitting back in coverage with a DL that cannot win one on one matchups leaves a terrible secondary less exposed but not as much as when blitzing. Either way Haslett loses.

The next step is to move to more twists and stunts up front which will inevitably see the running yards against go up, but hopefully see less of QBs having time to do their taxes in the pocket.

[KDawg]

Again, Haslett is stuck in a catch 22 with this limited and injured group. Blitzing with slow, unathletic blitzers leaves a terrible secondary extremely exposed and at risk. Sitting back in coverage with a DL that cannot win one on one matchups leaves a terrible secondary less exposed but not as much as when blitzing. Either way Haslett loses.

The next step is to move to more twists and stunts up front which will inevitably see the running yards against go up, but hopefully see less of QBs having time to do their taxes in the pocket.

I don't buy this whole "woe is Haslett" stuff.

Our defense is limited and injured? Who shopped for the groceries? I don't care that we've lost as many players as we have. Sure, that's going to have an impact on our D, but our D wasn't great when everyone was healthy. Now it's nearly historically bad. Plenty of teams get the injury bug and still have a modicum of success... Except for us.

The players seem to lack confidence in Haslett's schemes, and that can't be fixed. You want to see the defense improve? Get rid of Haslett. I'm tired of the excuses. Even last year when our defense was "good" it was a middle of the pack defense. I realize not all the blame can be pinned on Haslett. Shanahan helps with the shopping. And, a weed suspensions, two fluke injuries to Merriweather, Carriker and Orakpo going down is fairly bad luck. But we're getting very little out of the guys that are on the field. We have a total lack of talent. And we're playing hesitant.

Nothing in Haslett's past should lead you to believe that this will get better.

[Saqs]

I don't buy this whole "woe is Haslett" stuff.

Our defense is limited and injured? Who shopped for the groceries? I don't care that we've lost as many players as we have. Sure, that's going to have an impact on our D, but our D wasn't great when everyone was healthy. Now it's nearly historically bad. Plenty of teams get the injury bug and still have a modicum of success... Except for us.

The players seem to lack confidence in Haslett's schemes, and that can't be fixed. You want to see the defense improve? Get rid of Haslett. I'm tired of the excuses. Even last year when our defense was "good" it was a middle of the pack defense. I realize not all the blame can be pinned on Haslett. Shanahan helps with the shopping. And, a weed suspensions, two fluke injuries to Merriweather, Carriker and Orakpo going down is fairly bad luck. But we're getting very little out of the guys that are on the field. We have a total lack of talent. And we're playing hesitant.

Nothing in Haslett's past should lead you to believe that this will get better.

You can question any and everyone involved for the personnel choices. That's fair. And I agree that it probably wont get much better with this group under Haslett. But I also think it wouldnt get much better with this group under anyone.

I'm sure the players are playing hesitant as well after being snakebitten so many times. But i'd be willing to bet that as many players that may not agree with the scheme (if many), there are just as many if not more that dont agree with having Doughty and Williams as their starting safeties. If I was a corner on this team, I certainly wouldnt feel comfortable at all out there knowing who my safety help is.

[KDawg]

You can question any and everyone involved for the personnel choices. That's fair. And I agree that it probably wont get much better with this group under Haslett. But I also think it wouldnt get much better with this group under anyone.

Not this year. I agree. Changing now isn't necessarily a recipe for success. It's just an opportunity to perhaps add a spark. I don't know that it would make much difference.

I'm sure the players are playing hesitant as well after being snakebitten so many times. But i'd be willing to bet that as many players that may not agree with the scheme (if many), there are just as many if not more that dont agree with having Doughty and Williams as their starting safeties. If I was a corner on this team, I certainly wouldnt feel comfortable at all out there knowing who my safety help is.

I've been "meh" on Doughty over the years, but this year I think he's actually proven to be among our best defensive backs. He's not all that athletically gifted, so he can't cover some of the better players as they'll make him look bad... That said, he does seem to be pretty assignment oriented and he's great in the box. Doughty is exactly what you want in a backup safety. Unfortunately, he's being forced into full time duty right now. Hall and Wilson should be more worried about their own play. Hall has been very mediocre in coverage. As a playmaker, he'd shine, but we're not allowing him to shine. Between him and Kerrigan we have opportunities to move them around just a bit and confuse teams. That's where Hall's value is. Not in coverage.

Wilson has been disappointing this year as well, but I think he's still okay.

I think the big, GAPING issue we have is #41. At times, he plays quite well. But at other times he is the reason we're getting torched. He's too inconsistent.

[darrelgreenie]

I think the big, GAPING issue we have is #41. At times, he plays quite well. But at other times he is the reason we're getting torched. He's too inconsistent.

Maddie makes the rookie level mistakes in coverage, but without the speed, quickness and game to game improvement young players provide.

---------- Post added November-1st-2012 at 11:07 AM ----------

Knowing Haslett's style and limitations:

I would have to different defensive game plans depending on the score (and how the offense is moving the ball).

(1) Defensive game plan: Play pass and read run; or as some coaches say get the RB on the way to the QB. DL get upfield after the QB less 2-gap DL more 1-gap.

o Move Jenkins to NT move Cofield to DE

o Use Kerrigan like Terrel Suggs, move him around and hunt for the best match-up, get him with his hand in the dirt sometimes

o Get more pass rushers in the game together get Kerrigan, Jackson on the field with Alexander/Wilson as pass rushers

(1) At the start of games with the score tied: Hit, hurry, sack the opposing QB-get after the QB but still have deep help, sacrifice intermediate stuff, rally tackle

o Numbers based pressures, try and bring 1 more then they can block (disguised of course) with LBs no blitzing w/ DBs-Coverage: press man to man on the outside but Always with at least a single deep FS/SS no zero blitz

o Zone pressures try and bring 1 more then they can block protect deep w/ cloud or shell (Cover 3)

(2) With the lead or with the score tied protect deep!

Press man trail backed up by 2 deep Safeties miz up coverage assignments. Jam the receivers at the line

Mix in some some press bail Cover-2/Tampa-2.

(Bellichick) Show some over load blitz but cover to take await the offense hot read or primary hope to confuse the QB with their progression allowing pressure to get home-cloud coverage behind

[Laxpunk2006]

This is the same weight Dexter Manley and Charles Mann weighed and our defense was ferocious against the run, sacking QB's and made it much easier for an already very good secondary. If Gibbs or Petitbone would have moved them to LB's, our D would have been ripped apart, just like it's getting now days.

Offensive lines have changed quite a bit in 20+ years.

[Skins Wingman]

good article on hogs haven: http://www.hogshaven.com/2012/11/1/3586548/2-4-5-defense-package-exploited-redskins

pre snap

post snap

look at the gaps in the line. and all the players standing at the 50. one of them could have lined up closer to the LOS and blitzed and probably would have gotten a sack or forced a quick throw. instead, we keep bringing only 4 and our 7 in coverage are playing zone. on this drive alone the steelers went no huddle and we were stuck in this 2-4-5 defense and ran the same play every time. btw, ben was 3/4 for 41 yards on this drive against 7 people in coverage.

bottom line is the players are out of position and the scheme is too passive. bring the ****ing heat! stop running the same boring plays and bring more pressure.

[thewagen]

One Word:

GRENADES

[SkinFaninOKC]

What I'd like to see you articulate is what advantages you'd expect going to 4-3 looks to confer to our defense over a more standard 3-4 look.

I actually wanted to give you a logical response but after today I realized it can't be done. Our defense is dreadful, Rak and Carriker might have made things a little better, Jackson and Merriweather WTF!!! We couldn't generate a pass rush with a Mack Truck.

[CjSuAvE22]

We really cant, If Jenkins Cofield and Bowen at best can only suck up one olinemen then we cant....we need at least two of em to have the prowess to take out two linemen for teams to double team em but if they cant do that then we cannot generate a pass rush plain and simple....We are really missing Orakpos bull rush from the left side as well..