Obamacare...(new title): GOP DEATH PLAN: Don-Ryan's Express

[chipwhich]

From all of my experiences with this crap (and no, I don't have time to elaborate), it is the worst of both worlds. That is to say, it neither brings the actual admirable aspects of socialized health care, or the useful aspects of free-market health care. It's a disgusting merger of bureaucracy and corporate health care. It's such a ****ing disaster, and since they neither changed enough by implementing it but changed just enough to somehow create a system most people dislike even more than the prior one, I'm totally looking forward to the day when this stuff all goes away. Either go a full measure or scale it back, but this half assed **** is supremely frustrating.

 

Great post, if you currently are insured through your work, and love your plan, prepare to get bureaucracy care.

I agree. It's a tough thing to do, fairly.

 

Why have to hold anyone's hand???, welcome to the real world where working people in our society have to do it now.  Monitor your taxable income and have an idea what you will owe.

Edited December 30, 2013 by chipwhich

[skinsmarydu]

No what it is saying is you will have gotten a benefit for which you have not used, therefore getting higher paychecks due to untaxed money.  At years end you will owe it all back to uncle sam.

I will owe nothing. I have no idea who this "you" is.

So, if one is given extra money (by the feds) for x, and doesn't use it for x, money gets taken back. I would think that this is fine by you, as it's fine by me...use it or lose it. When one is waiting in an ER, as my grandson was for 2 hours the other night, and finally yelled out that "I NEED A DOCTOR!", one doesn't know what it's like to be on the other side of this topic.

And if you know anything about me, you know that I wish my stepdaughter's children weren't your responsibility, from a federal government POV.

[chipwhich]

I will owe nothing. I have no idea who this "you" is.

So, if one is given extra money (by the feds) for x, and doesn't use it for x, money gets taken back. I would think that this is fine by you, as it's fine by me...use it or lose it. When one is waiting in an ER, as my grandson was for 2 hours the other night, and finally yelled out that "I NEED A DOCTOR!", one doesn't know what it's like to be on the other side of this topic.

And if you know anything about me, you know that I wish my stepdaughter's children weren't your responsibility, from a federal government POV.

 

I think you are missing the point.  Poor person gets subsidy to pay for health care.  Poor person has changes in status which changes their subsidy.  Let's say subsidy changes by $100 a month.  Poor person files taxes and owes $1200 because they didn't understand their subsidy.  Poor person irate with IRS.

Fine by me, sucks being the poor person who doesn't understand this stuff.

[Larry]

I think you are missing the point. Poor person gets subsidy to pay for health care. Poor person has changes in status which changes their subsidy. Let's say subsidy changes by $100 a month. Poor person files taxes and owes $1200 because they didn't understand their subsidy. Poor person irate with IRS.

Fine by me, sucks being the poor person who doesn't understand this stuff.

Agree with chip.

At least, I think the problem people are talking about is: your subsidy to buy insurance depends on how much you THINK you are going to make, next year. But you don't KNOW, in advance, how much you're going to be making, next year.

[twa]

Agree with chip.

At least, I think the problem people are talking about is: your subsidy to buy insurance depends on how much you THINK you are going to make, next year. But you don't KNOW, in advance, how much you're going to be making, next year.

 

Yes, you are supposed to update any earning changes thru-out the year,especially increased income, to prevent a nasty surprise

[twa]

The stories will change, and be more negative, post January 1. That's when people lose their Dr., when Dr.'s don't know who to bill, when patients experience huge deductibles, and when those cancellations are effective.

 

The bureaucratic story has been unfolding. The human interest story is about to hit.

 

already starting

 

http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/12/29/21893911-workers-at-auto-dealership-come-face-to-face-with-obamacare-trade-offs

 

The 41 employees of Extreme Dodge in Jackson, Mich., are very familiar with trade-ins, but this year they’re learning about trade-offs as they come face to face with the new realities of health care. A few workers say they’re getting a great deal, but most have a severe case of sticker shock.

 

..

Rather than officially sponsor a new policy, the company -- voted one of the 100 best car dealerships to work for in the country last year -- will instead provide its employees with $2,400 apiece to buy their own insurance, or to pocket and pay the new federal penalty if they elect to go without it.

 

,,

A handful of the Extreme Dodge workers came out winners -- mostly low-wage earners who qualify for subsidies and therefore pay very little for insurance. The biggest winner is Brandon Chisholm, a detailer with two daughters, who will get health insurance for the first time, and will have to pay virtually nothing for it because he qualifies for a big government subsidy. That means he can bank the $200 a month the company is giving workers to replace the health insurance it previously provided.

Asked if he was excited at the prospect of getting nearly free coverage on top of the cash stipend, he replied, “Oh yeah! Anything that can help me and my family out, that’s what I’m going to do.”

Twenty-six of the dealership's workers had been covered this year under the old company plan. Twenty-one have now decided to go with the new group plan recommended by the company for next year, though they realize that they face sharply higher out-of-pocket costs next year.

Their deductibles will go from $1,125 this year to $3,000 next year, and maximum out-of-pocket costs jump from $2,250 to $6,350. And for families, those numbers double: to a $6,000 deductible and $12,700 out-of-pocket maximum.

“How is this helping the average American that’s working 40 to 50 hours per week?” said Terry Hardcastle, a salesperson. “How are we supposed to live?”

Cathy Smith, who’d hoped she’d qualify for a subsidy and made just a little too much money, had tears in her eyes.  "You don't make that much money to begin with,” she said, “and the prescriptions are going to kill me."

[chipwhich]

Cathy Smith, who’d hoped she’d qualify for a subsidy and made just a little too much money, had tears in her eyes.  "You don't make that much money to begin with,” she said, “and the prescriptions are going to kill me."

 

Cathy should just ask for a pay cut so she can get subsidies.  Problem solved. 

[Larry]

Rather than officially sponsor a new policy, the company -- voted one of the 100 best car dealerships to work for in the country last year -- will instead provide its employees with $2,400 apiece to buy their own insurance, or to pocket and pay the new federal penalty if they elect to go without it.

And people are blaming Obama for this decision.

[twa]

And people are blaming Obama for this decision.

 

it has nothing to do with Obamacare?

 

I suppose cutting peoples hours did not as well.

 

Good intentions does not mean good results

[Duckus]

Helpful website for those interested in tracking enrollment.

http://acasignups.net/spreadsheet

[Larry]

it has nothing to do with Obamacare?

You certainly have not shown that it does.

Does Obamacare exist? Yep.

Have employers been cutting employees health care for years? Yep.

Have you and your spinmeisters been pretending that every bad thing for the last five years was because of Obamacare, without any support other than the fact that it exists? Yep.

"Wolf!!!"

[twa]

"Wolf!!!"

 

The Nile

[Popeman38]

And people are blaming Obama for this decision.

Quit with the cherry picking. From the same article, just a tad further down if you had read it: 

Insurance broker Michael Harp said small businesses, part of what’s known in the industry as the “small group market,” are used to seeing health insurance premiums climb about 10 percent a year, but it’s never before been this dramatic.  For Extreme Dodge to have kept deductibles and out-of-pocket costs at last year’s levels, he said, would have cost the dealership almost 50 percent more than last year.

So instead of the dealership paying (made up number here) $2500/month to cover the employees, the same plan would have cost them $3750/month.  You expect a business to eat a 50% mark-up in one of the most expensive employee benefits that is being caused by a new law (nicknamed Obamacare)?  And when they don't eat that mark-up and pass the cost on to the employees in the firm of higher deductibles and lesser coverage, you chafe at someone saying Obamacare is causing it?

Edited December 31, 2013 by Popeman38

[Tulane Skins Fan]

From all of my experiences with this crap (and no, I don't have time to elaborate), it is the worst of both worlds. That is to say, it neither brings the actual admirable aspects of socialized health care, or the useful aspects of free-market health care. It's a disgusting merger of bureaucracy and corporate health care. It's such a ****ing disaster, and since they neither changed enough by implementing it but changed just enough to somehow create a system most people dislike even more than the prior one, I'm totally looking forward to the day when this stuff all goes away. Either go a full measure or scale it back, but this half assed **** is supremely frustrating.

 

No more half measures, Walter.

Quit with the cherry picking. From the same article, just a tad further down if you had read it: 

So instead of the dealership paying (made up number here) $2500/month to cover the employees, the same plan would have cost them $3750/month.  You expect a business to eat a 50% mark-up in one of the most expensive employee benefits that is being caused by a new law (nicknamed Obamacare)?  And when they don't eat that mark-up and pass the cost on to the employees in the firm of higher deductibles and lesser coverage, you chafe at someone saying Obamacare is causing it?

 

Look, this anecdotal evidence stuff is crap.  This is all just spin.  Everyone, including Mr. Car Dealership has a vested interest in the politics of this.  At least, anyone willing to be interviewed has an agenda.  

 

Everyone sit back and relax, and let's see what happens.  By all accounts, its done some good and some bad, but there's a long way to go.

[twa]

hard to relax with coverages being dropped, rates increasing and a mandate .

 

not to mention the money they are pouring into trying to make the exchanges work and the expected ins bailouts.

 

or that I now need to worry if my tax bill will spike if I just sit back and relax.

 

 

kinda makes me miss the simple days of just the ins company screwing me

[Tulane Skins Fan]

hard to relax with coverages being dropped, rates increasing and a mandate .

 

not to mention the money they are pouring into trying to make the exchanges work and the expected ins bailouts.

 

or that I now need to worry if my tax bill will spike if I just sit back and relax.

 

 

kinda makes me miss the simple days of just the ins company screwing me

 

Those things happen every year with or without Obamacare.  But the point is, you don't have a full picture of anything yet.  Let's see what actually happens and stop hanging on every story of a person who wants to slam or hype Obamacare.

[twa]

Those things happen every year with or without Obamacare.  But the point is, you don't have a full picture of anything yet.  Let's see what actually happens and stop hanging on every story of a person who wants to slam or hype Obamacare.

 

no they don't to me.

 

the rough sketch is pretty damn ugly, but at least more of ya'll will get a taste next year....and misery loves company.

[chipwhich]

By all accounts, its done some good and some bad, but there's a long way to go.

 

Not sure what good it has done, but ok.

[Tulane Skins Fan]

Not sure what good it has done, but ok.

 

Really, can't think of anything?  

 

2 million people have gotten insurance on it now that they didn't have before.  Preexisting conditions can no longer be used to deny coverage, nor even asked about in an application.  Kids can stay on their parents' insurance until 26.

 

Its done some good.  

no they don't to me.

 

the rough sketch is pretty damn ugly, but at least more of ya'll will get a taste next year....and misery loves company.

 

like you said, you used to get screwed by the insurance companies every year.... 

 

If Mitt Romney had instituted this plan throughout the nation, as he wanted, you'd be trumpeting how great it is.  This is purely political gamesmanship at this point, and until we actually know how it works.

[chipwhich]

Its done some good.  

 

Obama could have made this a whole lot simpler.

Pass a law to remove pre existing condition clause and provide subsidies for the poor.  There was some pretty competitively priced insurance already available.

 

[Tulane Skins Fan]

Obama could have made this a whole lot simpler.

Pass a law to remove pre existing condition clause and provide subsidies for the poor.  There was some pretty competitively priced insurance already available.

 

Ironic.

[Larry]

Quit with the cherry picking. From the same article, just a tad further down if you had read it:

So instead of the dealership paying (made up number here) $2500/month to cover the employees, the same plan would have cost them $3750/month. You expect a business to eat a 50% mark-up in one of the most expensive employee benefits that is being caused by a new law (nicknamed Obamacare)? And when they don't eat that mark-up and pass the cost on to the employees in the firm of higher deductibles and lesser coverage, you chafe at someone saying Obamacare is causing it?

Love your definition of "quoting the part of the article which the poster chose to quote" as "cherry picking".

Admiring your unsupported assumption that the amount which the company chose to give the employees was the same amount as the company chose to pay, before.

(But you did point out that it's a made up number. And I certainly have no clue if the actual number was more, or less).

But, let's just assume as fact the unsupported assertion that the Obamacare law mandated a 50% premium increase.

I can see exactly two possible reasons that could possibly be true.

1). The law mandates coverage which the old plan didn't cover, and this coverage IS ACTUALLY WORTH that much.

2). Every insurance company in the market is using Obamacare as an excuse to grossly overcharge their customers.

(And I have yet to see anybody come up with a third possible explanation).

Obama could have made this a whole lot simpler.

Pass a law to remove pre existing condition clause and provide subsidies for the poor. There was some pretty competitively priced insurance already available.

Why isn't this great coverage still available?

[chipwhich]

Ironic.

 

Is that your response Counselor?  I don't get it.

[Tulane Skins Fan]

Is that your response Counselor?  I don't get it.

 

You basically described what Obamacare does.  

[The 12th Commandment]

Is that your response Counselor?  I don't get it.

I'm guessing he meant the part where subsidies and regulation (per your pre-existing/subsidy comment) fix the problem.  I see the irony in that too, when it comes from someone who leans right.  

 

Seeing TSF comment now, I think ACA does more to satisfy the market for insurance than simply subsidizing some people.

Edited December 31, 2013 by KAOSkins