Obamacare...(new title): GOP DEATH PLAN: Don-Ryan's Express

[SkinsHokieFan]

Washington Post Fact Checker

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/wp/2013/10/30/obamas-pledge-that-no-one-will-take-away-your-health-plan/

 

 

Obama’s pledge that ‘no one will take away’ your health plan

“That means that no matter how we reform health care, we will keep this promise to the American people: If you like your doctor, you will be able to keep your doctor, period. If you like your health care plan, you’ll be able to keep your health care plan, period. No one will take it away, no matter what.”

– President Obama, speech to the American Medical Association, June 15, 2009 (as the health care law was being written.)

“And if you like your insurance plan, you will keep it.  No one will be able to take that away from you.  It hasn’t happened yet.  It won’t happen in the future.”

– Obama, remarks in Portland, April 1, 2010, after the health care law was signed into law.      

“FACT: Nothing in #Obamacare forces people out of their health plans. No change is required unless insurance companies change existing plans.”

– tweet by Obama aide Valerie Jarrett, Oct. 28, 2013, after NBC News airsa report that the Obama administration knew “millions” could not keep their health insurance.

Many readers have asked us to step back into time and review these statements by the president now that it appears that as many as 2 million people may need to get a new insurance plan as the Affordable Care Act, a.k.a. Obamacare, goes into effect in 2014. As we were considering those requests, one of the president’s most senior advisers then tweeted a statement on the same issue that cried out for fact checking.

 

 

[TheGoodBits]

This should be expected when you give the private health industry a seat at the table (and use Heritage Foundation's solution on top of that). For all the inevitable inefficiencies and waste a universal gov-run healthcare system would entail, at least there would be stability. Hell, removing the for-profit nature of health insurance could make it substantially cheaper, at least in the short term. Maybe if ACA proves to be yet another futile attempt at solving the healthcare problem, and GOP takes over in 2016 because of it and repeals the thing, and then fails at governing (again), maybe then we could arrive at a decent solution at some point in the next two decades.

[Wrong Direction]

This is all true for message board fodder.

That's why I say peoples cost of insurance is meaningless without lots of information.  If I fired everyone in my company below 30 and replaced them all with people above 60 my insurance would skyrocket, and vice versa.  That would have nothing to do with Obamacare.

I can say, during my renewal this year, Obamacare caused all insurance to go up.  I have to pay for these exchanges.  Now since I was shopping, it wasn't a case of Blue Cross Blue Shield holding me hostage and making me pay higher rates.  They couldn't because I have options, as I always have.  So I switched to another carrier.

 

Please keep posting and explaining your situation. Some of us are noting that you're posting as a business owner with direct experience, not as some lunatic fringe right winger who's against everything the left does.

[twa]

this does not look like stability and removing profit does nothing to make it cheaper....check out the waste of many non-profits.

 

or look at our non-profit government 

[twa]

Insurers Oppose Obamacare Extension as Danger to Profits

 

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-10-30/insurers-oppose-obamacare-extension-as-danger-to-profits.html

 

Allowing Americans more time to enroll for health coverage under Obamacare may raise premiums and cut into profits, insurers are telling members of Congress in a bid to stop such a move.

 

Extending the enrollment period would have a “destabilizing effect on insurance markets,” said Robert Zirkelbach, a spokesman for the Washington-based lobbyist group American’s Health Insurance Plans. Allowing younger, healthy Americans to sign up later, as they probably would, means less revenue for insurers counting on those premiums to help defray the cost of sicker customers, threatening industry profits.

“If you can enroll at any point in the year, then you can just wait until you get sick,” Brian Wright, an analyst with Monness Crespi Hardt in New York, said in a telephone interview. “This isn’t the industry crying foul and exaggerating the issue, this is actually one of those issues where there is a well-grounded reason for the concerns.”

[DaGoonie55]

Please keep posting and explaining your situation. Some of us are noting that you're posting as a business owner with direct experience, not as some lunatic fringe right winger who's against everything the left does.

 

I would also point out that you have a choice as the owner.  I do not as an employee.  I have an option to go with an HSA or explore external options.

 

How did this get so ****ed up?

 

My wife's prescriptions are going to bankrupt me by June next year.

[chipwhich]

Please keep posting and explaining your situation. Some of us are noting that you're posting as a business owner with direct experience, not as some lunatic fringe right winger who's against everything the left does.

 

Too bad we can't keep an honest discussion with regards to the ACA.  From a non political view, I really don't see why anyone could rejoice this plan.  I guess we have to play wait and see, maybe I will be wrong and find out it's great.  Assuming I am right and most people will sign up for high deductible plans, I predict a high level of dissatisfaction and disappointment.

I would also point out that you have a choice as the owner.  I do not as an employee.  I have an option to go with an HSA or explore external options.

 

How did this get so ****ed up?

 

My wife's prescriptions are going to bankrupt me by June next year.

 

DaGoonie55, it's not as easy as having a choice, I still care to provide a good option to my employees.  With that said, your post makes no sense.  An H.S.A is a way to save money pretax - which is a good thing.  What external options are you referring to?

 

In high deductible plans, prescriptions will gang rape you unless you use all generics.

[nonniey]

I would love to see a link describing this, as I am unaware.  It makes it even more laughable if true.

That said, most poor/middle class plan their taxes so they get a refund so the tax may be applied.

Googled this link there are others that provide more detail.

 

 

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/does-the-obamacare-penalty-actually-have-teeth--144740030.html

Edited October 30, 2013 by nonniey

[Gallen5862]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/wp/2013/10/30/obamas-pledge-that-no-one-will-take-away-your-health-plan/?hpid=z2

The Fact Checker

Obama’s pledge that ‘no one will take away’ your health plan

As we have noted, a key part of the law is forcing insurers to offer an “essential health benefits” package, providing coverage in 10 categories. The list includes: ambulatory patient services; emergency services; hospitalization; maternity and newborn care; mental health and substance use disorder services, including behavioral health treatment; prescription drugs; rehabilitative and habilitative services and devices; laboratory services; preventive and wellness services and chronic disease management; and pediatric services, including oral and vision care.

For some plans, this would be a big change. In 2011, the Department of Health and Human Services noted: “62 percent of enrollees do not have coverage for maternity services; 34 percent of enrollees do not have coverage for substance abuse services; 18 percent of enrollees do not have coverage for mental health services; 9 percent of enrollees do not have coverage for prescription drugs.”

The law did allow “grandfathered” plans — for people who had obtained their insurance before the law was signed on March 23, 2010 — to escape this requirement and some other aspects of the law. But the regulations written by HHS while implementing the law set some tough guidelines, so that if an insurance company makes changes to a plan’s benefits or how much members pay through premiums, copays or deductibles, then a person’s plan likely loses that status.

If you dig into the regulations (go to page 34560), you will see that HHS wrote them extremely tight. One provision says that if copayment increases by more than $5, plus medical cost of inflation, then the plan can no longer be grandfathered. (With last year’s inflation rate of 4 percent, that means the copay could not increase by more than $5.20.) Another provision says the coinsurance rate could not be increased at all above the level it was on March 23, 2010.

Edited October 30, 2013 by Gallen5862

[DaGoonie55]

DaGoonie55, it's not as easy as having a choice, I still care to provide a good option to my employees.  With that said, your post makes no sense.  An H.S.A is a way to save money pretax - which is a good thing.  What external options are you referring to?

 

In high deductible plans, prescriptions will gang rape you unless you use all generics.

 

I tried to edit, my computer crashed.  I'm very, very livid about this and I'll try and make more sense.  HSA's are amazing - provided you NEVER use them.

 

Last year I spent just under 6000 on health care.  (All my receipts, deductibles, prescriptions etc) through my PPO Plan A. I support my wife, our two boys, and my daughter that lives with her mother.

 

3700 was from premiums. 

600  from doctor visits, lab work (wife has lab work every 2 weeks)

400 prescriptions

~2000 due to a minor procedure removing a lymph node and various ER trips (kids are clumbsy).

 

 

Next year, I calculate the following:  A total of 7000 - with no emergency trips, procedures, etc.

 

1200 premium

2500 deductible

2000 copay

 

@ $970 / month for my wifes prescriptions my deductible will be used up by March.  Copay will be paid out before June. Did I mention the every 2 week lab work to keep her meds up to date?  Thats 100/ month prescriptions 100 / month lab work.  200 / mo out of pocket x 6 months is another 1200.

 

I will have paid out the same amount by June as I did the ENTIRE year before.  And I have had no child visits, illnesses, ER trips, etc.

 

How is this a good thing?

 

External options - I was referring to the ACA or other insurance - but my ex-wife has a court order forcing me to have employer insurance (just found this out today.....) as I was trying to explore other options.

[chipwhich]

DaGoonie, you are confusing an H.S.A with a high deductible plan.

Your issues are with a high deductible plan.

An H.S.A allows you to set money aside tax free and pay for the expenses you describe under the High Deductible Plan.

So your quote that HSA's are amazing - provided you NEVER use them is incorrect, it might read High Deductible plan's are amazing - provided you NEVER use them.  An HSA if not used is poor money management.  If you have access to an  HSA you MUST use it with your high deductible plan or you will be out of pocket more money.

[Gallen5862]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/on-small-business/delayed-again-critical-function-of-health-care-laws-small-business-exchange-pushed-back/2013/10/30/c8a3f414-416e-11e3-a624-41d661b0bb78_story.html

 

Delayed again: Critical function of health care law’s small business exchange pushed back

 

By J.D. Harrison, E-mail the writer

Delayed once already, a critical function of the federal government’s new health insurance marketplace for small-businesses has been pushed back again.

Marilyn Tavenner, head of the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, which is in charge of the federal exchange, revealed a revised timeline for the small-business exchange during a congressional hearing on Tuesday, stating that employers will not be able to actually enroll in plans online until the end of next month.

 

“Let me ask you specifically, will the SHOP Website for small businesses that was delayed be fully functional during November?” Rep. Lloyd Doggett (D-Tex.) asked Tavenner during the hearing before the House Ways and Means Committee.

“Yes, we will institute the SHOP component at the end of November,” Tavenner responded. She later added that the Spanish version of the federal exchange site, which was postponed at the same time as the small-business enrollment function, would be open “by the end of November,” too.

[DaGoonie55]

DaGoonie, you are confusing an H.S.A with a high deductible plan.

Your issues are with a high deductible plan.

An H.S.A allows you to set money aside tax free and pay for the expenses you describe under the High Deductible Plan.

So your quote that HSA's are amazing - provided you NEVER use them is incorrect, it might read High Deductible plan's are amazing - provided you NEVER use them.  An HSA if not used is poor money management.  If you have access to an  HSA you MUST use it with your high deductible plan or you will be out of pocket more money.

I agree with your correction of my statement. 

 

However, to be able to start an HSA - you must have a HDP.  You cannot pour money into an HSA in anticipation - you start at 0 on day one and pay out the ass.

 

Unless I'm not fully understanding this - my HR rep might as well be speaking Romulan - she's worthless.  Total company woman with zero attention span.

[chipwhich]

I agree with your correction of my statement. 

 

However, to be able to start an HSA - you must have a HDP.  You cannot pour money into an HSA in anticipation - you start at 0 on day one and pay out the ass.

 

Unless I'm not fully understanding this - my HR rep might as well be speaking Romulan - she's worthless.  Total company woman with zero attention span.

 

Well for my employees, we opened the H.S.A on the same day as we turned on the high deductible plan.  Your best bet would be to start putting a deposit in for every payroll.  Let's say you need $2400 a year just for easy numbers.  You could put away $200 a month tax free on your H.S.A.  If you have medical expenses prior to having funds (lets say you pay for $600 for your wifes prescription) , once you put the $200 on the H.S.A account, you can then reimburse yourself the $200, each month until you refund yourself from the H.S.A  $200 pretax can sometimes be as much as 30-40% less.  I always suggest people put as much as they can afford on the H.S.A odds are you will use it.

 

BTW, if you know you were spending $600 in prescriptions, you could do a $600 payroll deduction in month one, then drop it to $200 a month moving forward.  The $600 pre-tax will really look like $400 less in your paycheck.  You could charge your prescription, then once the money is on H.S.A. right a $600 check to pay for your drugs.

Edited October 30, 2013 by chipwhich

[twa]

Even more so for the self employed since the HSA ded comes before the S/E tax bite

[chipwhich]

Watching a Baltimore MD WJZ 13 news channel for tonights news.  A waitress at TT Diner said she went onto HealthCare.gov to sign up.  Her quote was $300+ per month with a $20,000 deductible.

Sticker shock.

The $20,000 deductible doesn't sound correct but this isn't FoxNews or a Republican TV station.

 

Welcome to the ACA.

[Wrong Direction]

It is so stupid that we don't expand HSAs broadly in this country as part of a long term plan to transform healthcare financing. Obama scaled them back, if I remember correctly. Exactly the opposite of what needs to happen.

Watching a Baltimore MD WJZ 13 news channel for tonights news.  A waitress at TT Diner said she went onto HealthCare.gov to sign up.  Her quote was $300+ per month with a $20,000 deductible.

Sticker shock.

The $20,000 deductible doesn't sound correct but this isn't FoxNews or a Republican TV station.

 

Welcome to the ACA.

 

That's not true. 

[chipwhich]

It is so stupid that we don't expand HSAs broadly in this country as part of a long term plan to transform healthcare financing. Obama scaled them back, if I remember correctly. Exactly the opposite of what needs to happen.

 

That's not true. 

 

What's not true?  That I just watched it?  That part is true.  The $20,000 deductible might not be.

[Wrong Direction]

What's not true?  That I just watched it?  That part is true.  The $20,000 deductible might not be.

 

20k deductible, unless it's not talking about the exchanges. $2,000 makes more sense.

[chipwhich]

20k deductible, unless it's not talking about the exchanges. $2,000 makes more sense.

 

I don't know but a $2000 deductible seems low.

[Wrong Direction]

I don't know but a $2000 deductible seems low.

 

Highest I see in MD is $3,500, but that's after a quick look at the website.

 

The max out of pocket is way under $20k, so that number just isn't accurate.

[Larry]

Wondering if maybe there's a $20K deductible for a family policy.  Suppose there's a slim chance of that, I don't know. 

 

I will also observe that, when I tried to experiment with the exchanges, just for research, and I Google "Florida health care exchange", what I get is a ****load of commercial web sites that have been set up with names and URLs designed to make people think that they're at THE exchange. 

 

I'm not saying that all such sites are thieves, but IMO, the fact that they've chosen to try to sucker people in with names like that certainly doesn't speak well of their ethics. 

Edited October 31, 2013 by Larry

[SkinsHokieFan]

 

 

I'm not saying that all such sites are thieves, but IMO, the fact that they've chosen to try to sucker people in with names like that certainly doesn't speak well of their ethics. 

 

How do you know it is a fake website?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It actually works  

[twa]

 

I'm not saying that all such sites are thieves, but IMO, the fact that they've chosen to try to sucker people in with names like that certainly doesn't speak well of their ethics. 

 

 

I take it lying to pass ACA is worse?

[DaGoonie55]

Well for my employees, we opened the H.S.A on the same day as we turned on the high deductible plan.  Your best bet would be to start putting a deposit in for every payroll.  Let's say you need $2400 a year just for easy numbers.  You could put away $200 a month tax free on your H.S.A.  If you have medical expenses prior to having funds (lets say you pay for $600 for your wifes prescription) , once you put the $200 on the H.S.A account, you can then reimburse yourself the $200, each month until you refund yourself from the H.S.A  $200 pretax can sometimes be as much as 30-40% less.  I always suggest people put as much as they can afford on the H.S.A odds are you will use it.

 

BTW, if you know you were spending $600 in prescriptions, you could do a $600 payroll deduction in month one, then drop it to $200 a month moving forward.  The $600 pre-tax will really look like $400 less in your paycheck.  You could charge your prescription, then once the money is on H.S.A. right a $600 check to pay for your drugs.

 

My wife takes 2 pills a day. The two pills cost 32 dollars A DAY.  I wont have any money to put into the HSA - I'll be paying the 0% coverage on her pills.  And her lab work twice a month.  And my childrens visits. Out of pocket.  There will be no HSA build up until after June.  What sacrifices will I have to make to get that far?  No cable, no internet, turn off cellphones, basically ruin my quality of life just because someone pushed an agenda that we citizens do not get any input on.

 

Just out of curiosity - how much did you pay before as opposed to now for your employees coverage?  And was is a PPO, HMO?