Kilmer17 Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Again, if a bill has been in negotiations in committee for months, and an individual legislator still has no idea what it is about, that falls on him or her. Most bills come to the house floor as finished products. They have to, or nothing ever would get done.but the rant was epic indeed (who's going to be the first one to break down and google what this is all about? I'd hate to find out that I am playing contrarian against the Democratic Representative from Hyde Park )) ---------- Post added May-31st-2012 at 01:13 PM ---------- We did. Hundreds of them. All of whom pretended that the bill hadn't been negotiated for a year straight, and amended and weakened over and over in concession to concerns put forth by the GOP, before the final bill came up for a vote and they all had temper tantrums and voted against it. It was Pelosi who said "we have to pass it so you can find out what is in it". If the argument is that this guy is right because he is relying on Leadership for direction because he has no way of knowing what amendments etc have been added, the same argument would apply to Obamacare. Or at least it should. But I wont be shocked when you guys come up with a reason it doesnt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulane Skins Fan Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 It was Pelosi who said "we have to pass it so you can find out what is in it".If the argument is that this guy is right because he is relying on Leadership for direction because he has no way of knowing what amendments etc have been added, the same argument would apply to Obamacare. Or at least it should. But I wont be shocked when you guys come up with a reason it doesnt. Stop the hijack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Rep. Michael J. Madigan (D-Chicago) Michael J. Madigan was elected Speaker of the Illinois House of Representatives for the 97th General Assembly on January 12, 2011. He has served as Speaker since 1983, except during the years of the 89th General Assembly (1995-96). Representative Madigan was elected House Democratic Leader in 1981 and 1995. He served as House Majority Leader from 1977 until 1981. http://www.housedem.state.il.us/members/madiganm/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted May 31, 2012 Author Share Posted May 31, 2012 Was he ranting against his own speaker, or was the speaker from the other party?If it was his own party's speaker and his party is in control of the House, then that was pretty damn ballsy. If he is just ranting about a speaker from the other party in control, then it's less impressive. Democratic Speaker in Illinois. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Stop the hijack. Too late- Someone already took us to a place where the GOP was getting beaten up about a mythical destruction of the NEA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 It was Pelosi who said "we have to pass it so you can find out what is in it".If the argument is that this guy is right because he is relying on Leadership for direction because he has no way of knowing what amendments etc have been added, the same argument would apply to Obamacare. Or at least it should. But I wont be shocked when you guys come up with a reason it doesnt. I don't know if the guy here is right or not. I do know that the argument is bull :pooh: when applied to the fedeal health care bill. That thing was negotiated forever, and the GOP knew exactly what was in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 I don't know if the guy here is right or not.I do know that the argument is bull :pooh: when applied to the fedeal health care bill. That thing was negotiated forever, and the GOP knew exactly what was in it. You're calling Pelosi a liar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 You're calling Pelosi a liar? I'm calling "trial by soundbyte" the baloney that it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted May 31, 2012 Author Share Posted May 31, 2012 You're calling Pelosi a liar? Do you think that the reason for the secrecy was required by those who wanted to shape the bill in the process but didn't want to be publicly associated with it? Why is it you want to question Pelosi's integrity while completely ignoring that there are 400+ other people in there who do crap like that on every bill? i.e. "Here's what I need in the bill but I can't be seen supporting it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Do you think that the reason for the secrecy was required by those who wanted to shape the bill in the process but didn't want to be publicly associated with it? Why is it you want to question Pelosi's integrity while completely ignoring that there are 400+ other people in there who do crap like that on every bill? i.e. "Here's what I need in the bill but I can't be seen supporting it." Im perfectly fine calling out everyone who wants to pass a bill by limitting the time legislators have to read, review and understand it. Also pointing out that you just made a "yeah but the other side does it too" claim. I can appreciate that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCsportsfan53 Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Or at least it should. But I wont be shocked when you guys come up with a reason it doesnt. recanted pointless comment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Your political commentary is nothing short of tasteless hackery and an excellent example of what's wrong with the governance of our country today. The crappy part is you're a smart dude, too. I just hope you only do it for kicks and you don't actually treat the running of this country in private the way you do publically on this board. Thanks. I respond in kind to what I am presented. I have had many deep, insightful and sometimes mindchanging debates with folks here over the years. Sadly though, over the last year or two, it's become more of a tangled mess of hackery and partisan sniping. It's their world, Im just occupying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCsportsfan53 Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Thanks.I respond in kind to what I am presented. I have had many deep, insightful and sometimes mindchanging debates with folks here over the years. Sadly though, over the last year or two, it's become more of a tangled mess of hackery and partisan sniping. It's their world, Im just occupying. I had gone back and erased the comment but too late. It's just frustrating to me because it seems like you view the whole thing like a sporting event, us vs them, Cowboys vs Redskins and it's the exact frame of thought on politics that drives me away from caring about it at all because it's so prevalent in the whole thing. I don't usually involve myself in these threads, just read and I apologize for going off like that. Edit: So the answer is to spin harder than the other guy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enter Apotheosis Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Sadly though, over the last year or two, it's become more of a tangled mess of hackery and partisan sniping. It's their world, Im just occupying. Why do you still feel a compulsion to participate if you have such a low opinion of the level of discourse? If you're smart enough to recognize the hackery then it isn't hard to remain above it or altogether out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 I had gone back and erased the comment but too late. It's just frustrating to me because it seems like you view the whole thing like a sporting event, us vs them, Cowboys vs Redskins and it's the exact frame of thought on politics that drives me away from caring about it at all because it's so prevalent in the whole thing. I don't usually involve myself in these threads, just read and I apologize for going off like that. No need. I didnt take it as an insult. It IS a game to me. It has to be, because the truth is that it doesnt matter which party is in charge. The people still get screwed. ---------- Post added May-31st-2012 at 04:54 PM ---------- Why do you still feel a compulsion to participate if you have such a low opinion of the level of discourse? If you're smart enough to recognize the hackery then it isn't hard to remain above it or altogether out of it. I know that Scotch is bad for me, but I enjoy it too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enter Apotheosis Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 It IS a game to me. It has to be, because the truth is that it doesnt matter which party is in charge. The people still get screwed.I know that Scotch is bad for me, but I enjoy it too. This is possibly the most that I have agreed with you ever. I am frightened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted May 31, 2012 Author Share Posted May 31, 2012 Also pointing out that you just made a "yeah but the other side does it too" claim. I can appreciate that. If that is the argument you think I made then you're misreading what I'm saying. What I am saying is that in process of making a bill there are a lot of negotiations that take place behind closed doors where people can remain for the most part anonymous, and for certain moderate GOP legislators, in a time when the Tea Party was sweeping out moderates as RINOs, it was political survival for them to keep their name off certain things while still helping to influence the final bill. Did this happen with the Healthcare bill? Who knows, however I find it more than plausible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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