angel2 Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 The cable companies would not be bidding on the broadcast rights. Why do you keep saying that? I just used that as an example of what not to expect. Conversations thereafter have given the impression that I consider them in the mix, not so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Based on everything published to date, the old deal resulted in $1B to owners, 60% of $8.4B to players ($5.04B) and 40% to owners ($3.36B). For sake of argument, we will continue to use last years numbers. Under new agreement, players get 48% of $9.4B ($4.512B) while the owners get 52% ($4.888B). But the kicker is that the players get to bask in getting more if the revenue goes up, they are mitigating risk by only losing max 1.5% if the economy goes all 2006 on us again. Meaning, revenues increase there is a kicker that increases the players % of the "extra" revenue, but a cap on how much they can give lose if the revenues go down. That's true, I think. I know that they can never go lower than 46.5. I missed the part about getting a larger share of additional revenue. But immediately, Mike Brown gets $16 to $17 million more dollars in his pocket. Which is, what I think, he wants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Based off my understanding....Moss's market is something along the lines of 4 years 24M with about $10-12 guarentueed. Sidney Rice's market (the only really young WR that I know of who is could be a #1) is around 5-6 years for about $45-50M with $20+ in guarentueed money. Which one do you want? If Rice is truly double the cost of Moss (both in salary and guaranteed money) then I guess I'd prefer Moss. I still wouldn't make him a priority and might look to find other options. Again, I'm not anti-Moss, but I think you could easily make the case that paying Moss $6M per year up until he's 35 is similarly as careless as paying Rice $9M per year up until he's 30ish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 If Rice is truly double the cost of Moss (both in salary and guaranteed money) then I guess I'd prefer Moss. I still wouldn't make him a priority and might look to find other options. Again, I'm not anti-Moss, but I think you could easily make the case that paying Moss $6M per year up until he's 35 is similarly as careless as paying Rice $9M per year up until he's 30ish. Wouldn't it make more sense just to grab one of the vet receivers looking for a last payday for 2 years? TO made $2 million last year for the Bengals and was productive. Is 2 years at $5 million insane for him? If he acts like a dick, you just release him. It just seems crazy to me to tie up millions of dollars and years of service in WRs right now when John Beck may be the opening day QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Wouldn't it make more sense just to grab one of the vet receivers looking for a last payday for 2 years? TO made $2 million last year for the Bengals and was productive. Is 2 years at $5 million insane for him? If he acts like a dick' date=' you just release him.It just seems crazy to me to tie up millions of dollars and years of service in WRs right now when John Beck may be the opening day QB.[/quote'] Sure...I would love a shorter-term solution (I'm even OK with Burress). I was just responding to the direct question. All I've said is that I don't think Santana needs to be a priority and people keep putting words in my mouth like "where is this cheap, stud WR" and "you'd rather pay millions for Rice"...I think you and I agree that Santana's role is a little redundant in that we have Armstrong, Banks, and Austin who all made the team and played some last year. We don't have a bigger guy who we can rely on for the possession catches. I'd rather not have to count on IR Kelly or a rookie to fill that role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Sure...I would love a shorter-term solution (I'm even OK with Burress). I was just responding to the direct question. All I've said is that I don't think Santana needs to be a priority and people keep putting words in my mouth like "where is this cheap, stud WR" and "you'd rather pay millions for Rice"...I think you and I agree that Santana's role is a little redundant in that we have Armstrong, Banks, and Austin who all made the team and played some last year. We don't have a bigger guy who we can rely on for the possession catches. I'd rather not have to count on IR Kelly or a rookie to fill that role. I think Santana's time with the Redskins is over and thank you for your service. And I don't like the idea of making any long-term investmentst at WR until we have some idea what this offense is going to look like. We have no idea who is going to be the QB. The line is still up in the air. I can't get overly excited about Torain knowing the Shanahan history at that position. And to be honest, there's no free agent out there that really makes me excited. Get a cheap big vet who will actually run the correct routes and let the kids fight for the remaining scraps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKM311 Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Sure...I would love a shorter-term solution (I'm even OK with Burress). I was just responding to the direct question. All I've said is that I don't think Santana needs to be a priority and people keep putting words in my mouth like "where is this cheap, stud WR" and "you'd rather pay millions for Rice"...I think you and I agree that Santana's role is a little redundant in that we have Armstrong, Banks, and Austin who all made the team and played some last year. We don't have a bigger guy who we can rely on for the possession catches. I'd rather not have to count on IR Kelly or a rookie to fill that role. I am not putting words in your mouth. I asked a simple question. Getting vague responses. We all know, or most of us do, of the WRs out on the market this year. Who do you want besides Moss then? Your stating a vague option. A bigger younger WR. Who is that WR? I mean any name? Burress your ok with but hes 34. Name some options, otherwise your stating something every fan would state. It is an obvious theory to go get a bigger, younger WR, but someone has to be available to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
authentic Posted June 22, 2011 Author Share Posted June 22, 2011 Based off my understanding....Moss's market is something along the lines of 4 years 24M with about $10-12 guarentueed. Sidney Rice's market (the only really young WR that I know of who is could be a #1) is around 5-6 years for about $45-50M with $20+ in guarentueed money. Which one do you want? Neither.... Rice is too high for us. Moss, i would prefer to get him back @ 3 yrs 15mill (3rd year voidable).. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKM311 Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 I think Santana's time with the Redskins is over and thank you for your service. And I don't like the idea of making any long-term investmentst at WR until we have some idea what this offense is going to look like. We have no idea who is going to be the QB. The line is still up in the air. I can't get overly excited about Torain knowing the Shanahan history at that position.And to be honest' date=' there's no free agent out there that really makes me excited. Get a cheap big vet who will actually run the correct routes and let the kids fight for the remaining scraps.[/quote'] Confused by this post. Go get a cheap big vet who runs routes correct? I have not heard of Moss running routes incorrectly. You admit there is no FA out there, but you still don't want to re-sign Moss? So leave rookies out there? Who is the big cheap Vet WR? What are the options you think the Skins should target? Theories keep getting passed along, however, no real information of options is being tossed around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
authentic Posted June 22, 2011 Author Share Posted June 22, 2011 I think Santana's time with the Redskins is over and thank you for your service. And I don't like the idea of making any long-term investmentst at WR until we have some idea what this offense is going to look like. We have no idea who is going to be the QB. The line is still up in the air. I can't get overly excited about Torain knowing the Shanahan history at that position.And to be honest' date=' there's no free agent out there that really makes me excited. Get a cheap big vet who will actually run the correct routes and let the kids fight for the remaining scraps.[/quote'] I think Moss on the cheap is the best short-term option, given that besides him we don't have a WR on the roster with more than 3 yrs experience. Give him a modest 3 yr contract, throw him in the slot and let the young guns develop at the sametime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 I am not putting words in your mouth. I asked a simple question. Getting vague responses.We all know, or most of us do, of the WRs out on the market this year. Who do you want besides Moss then? Your stating a vague option. A bigger younger WR. Who is that WR? I mean any name? Burress your ok with but hes 34. Name some options, otherwise your stating something every fan would state. It is an obvious theory to go get a bigger, younger WR, but someone has to be available to do so. OK... Santonio Holmes Braylon Edwards Malcolm Floyd Steve Smith Jacoby Jones James Jones Mike Williams Steve Breaston Any of those guys for a comparable contract to Moss would be fine with me. I wasn't intending to be vague, I just hadn't really done the research on who was available. I think that Santana's age and size, he has given us just about all he will. I'd rather miss out on one more good year and cut ties too early than the opposite. ---------- Post added June-22nd-2011 at 02:23 PM ---------- I think Moss on the cheap is the best short-term option, given that besides him we don't have a WR on the roster with more than 3 yrs experience. Give him a modest 3 yr contract, throw him in the slot and let the young guns develop at the sametime. See...I'd do that. I'd give him a short contract and let him play. All I've said is that I wouldn't make him a priority. To me, 4/$24M with $12M guaranteed isn't cheap when you're looking at a 31-year old WR who relies on speed and quickness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKM311 Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 OK...Any of those guys for a comparable contract to Moss would be fine with me. I wasn't intending to be vague, I just hadn't really done the research on who was available. I think that Santana's age and size, he has given us just about all he will. I'd rather miss out on one more good year and cut ties too early than the opposite. Santonio Holmes - Contract won't be near Moss Braylon Edwards - Same as above Malcolm Floyd - This could be an option all though he hasn't proven much. He is also 29 and has never had more than 45 catches and 776 yards. He is def not a #1 and had an elite QB throwing to him. Steve Smith - No difference at all from Moss Jacoby Jones - The only guy on this list I would agree to target. Played in Kyles offense before. 26 years old. However, has never produced or been a #1. So he is someone to be added WITH Moss, not to replace him. James Jones - Contract will be too big. If it is not, expect him AND Moss to be signed. Mike Williams - Contract year? Seattle is the best situation for him. Steve Breaston - I like him as well, but again your paying for potential and not production. Classic mistake when he hasn't played in our system. I guess my point is, while I 100% agree with your strategy, it is not as easy to accomplish in FA as we wished. I honestly think Moss is a must re-sign (assuming the value is right) in addition to Jacoby or James Jones (assuming he doesn't ask for top dollar). Edit: Very good list and definitely see some options that could re-place Moss. However, it will require another learning curve for that player which could result into another bust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 I see your points. I think we both agree that we should sign Moss if the value is right and should sign some help if the age and value is right. Both are big conditional items at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKM311 Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 I see your points. I think we both agree that we should sign Moss if the value is right and should sign some help if the age and value is right. Both are big conditional items at this point. See, now why can't the owners and players do this with the CBA, lol! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Confused by this post. Go get a cheap big vet who runs routes correct? I have not heard of Moss running routes incorrectly. You admit there is no FA out there, but you still don't want to re-sign Moss? So leave rookies out there?Who is the big cheap Vet WR? What are the options you think the Skins should target? Theories keep getting passed along, however, no real information of options is being tossed around. Burress Owens Edwards If we really wanted to make a splash.....Holmes. I've never really thought Moss was all that fantastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKM311 Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 BurressOwens Edwards If we really wanted to make a splash.....Holmes. I honestly would say NO to all of them (hoping the Skins do as well). They all have character issues and Holmes is going after huge money. We are not in a position to offer huge money to anyone who wants a ring. I don't see how any of those will help the Skins in a way Moss can't. Burress hasn't played in 2 years. I will not comment on TO as I cannot stand that guy. Edwards, he is as on/off as you can get as a WR. I guess, IMO, I just don't see a WR out there who can impact the Skins in a more positive way than Moss. Compliment him, of course, but not to replace him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jflow78 Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Well, I agree with your comments relating to Barnes with one exception: Let Barnes play as the number two CB. Like any other CB, he will, at times, get burned. But he has in my opinion displayed enough gamesmanship to trust him. It's time to take off the training wheels and let him go for it. I agree. I think the Skins biggest problem in the past 10 years has been the thinking that, "Well this guy's shown promise, but he's never been a starter and so he isn't ready." So, instead of letting the kid progress and finding out whether or not he's got it, we sign a high priced FA, and let him go start for some other team. Then we slap ourselves for letting him go and think, "WTF, why didn't the FO let this kid play?!" Barnes did play a LOT of nickel and dime corner last season, and he played well. He also played well at safety, but the coaches insist on moving him back to CB, I would guess because they think that's where he's going to be the best. So, why not give the guy the chance to win the job, we did with Kareem Moore and he proved he wasn't ready. I'm not saying don't sign some second tier FA for competition (that's not even questionable, there should always be competition), but why not actually give the kid a shot, instead of signing a guy like Asomugha who will, by contract alone, win the position? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
authentic Posted June 22, 2011 Author Share Posted June 22, 2011 I honestly would say NO to all of them (hoping the Skins do as well). They all have character issues and Holmes is going after huge money. We are not in a position to offer huge money to anyone who wants a ring. I don't see how any of those will help the Skins in a way Moss can't. Burress hasn't played in 2 years. I will not comment on TO as I cannot stand that guy. Edwards, he is as on/off as you can get as a WR.I guess, IMO, I just don't see a WR out there who can impact the Skins in a more positive way than Moss. Compliment him, of course, but not to replace him. I'm with you on that!! I just wouldn't go after Moss by all means necessary. But, from what i've gathered, i don't believe he's looking to break the bank. What we need much more than WR, is a C, RG, & RT. (R. Harris [RT] & D. Joseph [RG]) should be main targets....What are we gonna do @ Center? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 See, now why can't the owners and players do this with the CBA, lol! They are...it just took them a couple years of a pissing contest to figure it out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKM311 Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 I'm with you on that!! I just wouldn't go after Moss by all means necessary. But, from what i've gathered, i don't believe he's looking to break the bank. What we need much more than WR, is a C, RG, & RT. (R. Harris [RT] & D. Joseph [RG]) should be main targets....What are we gonna do @ Center? In no means of my posts am I implying we should go Moss over OL. I agree with you 100% on what we really need to fill. I was just stating.....for the Redskins, I believe Moss is the best WR for us and our situation vs. what is on the market to replace him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angel2 Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 I agree. I think the Skins biggest problem in the past 10 years has been the thinking that, "Well this guy's shown promise, but he's never been a starter and so he isn't ready." So, instead of letting the kid progress and finding out whether or not he's got it, we sign a high priced FA, and let him go start for some other team. Then we slap ourselves for letting him go and think, "WTF, why didn't the FO let this kid play?!" Barnes did play a LOT of nickel and dime corner last season, and he played well. He also played well at safety, but the coaches insist on moving him back to CB, I would guess because they think that's where he's going to be the best. So, why not give the guy the chance to win the job, we did with Kareem Moore and he proved he wasn't ready. I'm not saying don't sign some second tier FA for competition (that's not even questionable, there should always be competition), but why not actually give the kid a shot, instead of signing a guy like Asomugha who will, by contract alone, win the position? This attitude you mention of bringing up the rookies into starting positions goes back to Gibbs 1. Good teams take chances to see what they have. The Skins have notoriously have discourage this practice. Regarding Asomugha, I can't help but think of what Hall said about him. De Angelo suggested that he was over rated and not good in man coverage. I always thought Carlos Rogers was better than Asomugha except for the hands of stone. Let Barnes play and learned and get better under pressure. I never was that sold on Buchanan even though he did have some good games with us. Let the turn-over begin. So long Carlos, hope you get the contract you expect. Santana was a terrific WR for us and earned his keep but I say let the younger guys compete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 I honestly would say NO to all of them (hoping the Skins do as well). They all have character issues and Holmes is going after huge money. We are not in a position to offer huge money to anyone who wants a ring. I don't see how any of those will help the Skins in a way Moss can't. Burress hasn't played in 2 years. I will not comment on TO as I cannot stand that guy. Edwards, he is as on/off as you can get as a WR.I guess, IMO, I just don't see a WR out there who can impact the Skins in a more positive way than Moss. Compliment him, of course, but not to replace him. Holmes is a receiver worth breaking the bank for. He should still be good when the team (hopefully) is ready to really challenge for something. I have two issues with Moss: 1. I don't like him that much. 2. He is at that odd age where to sign him, you still need to give him a lot of years. I want to rent a receiver, not buy (unless Holmes is available). I am, of course, utterly opposed to the idea of having nothing but young guys who've never done **** be the receivers corps. The Snyder years have made Skins' fans stupid in that they can only see one extreme or the other. "Sign every free agent!!" "Never sign a free agent!" I get what Jflow is saying, but here is my question: Do the Pats or Steelers or Ravens just throw rookies onto the field? No, except in rare cases, guys spend a year or two as backups or special teamers, with the understanding that the job will eventually belong to them. Troy Polamula barely played as a rookie. The idea that we should be starting some late round rookie at receiver and have Grossman or Beck overthrow him three times a game is insane to me. I would rather bring in Braylon Edwards and let him get booed by the fans and trashed by talk radio. I think Chris Horton is an interesting case study. He was thrown into a starter's job, dumb lucked his way into some big plays, but I'm not sure he ever actually learned how to play his position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKM311 Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Holmes is a receiver worth breaking the bank for. He should still be good when the team (hopefully) is ready to really challenge for something.I have two issues with Moss: 1. I don't like him that much. 2. He is at that odd age where to sign him' date=' you still need to give him a lot of years. I want to rent a receiver, not buy (unless Holmes is available). I am, of course, utterly opposed to the idea of having nothing but young guys who've never done **** be the receivers corps. The Snyder years have made Skins' fans stupid in that they can only see one extreme or the other. "Sign every free agent!!" "Never sign a free agent!" I get what Jflow is saying, but here is my question: Do the Pats or Steelers or Ravens just throw rookies onto the field? No, except in rare cases, guys spend a year or two as backups or special teamers, with the understanding that the job will eventually belong to them. Troy Polamula barely played as a rookie. The idea that we should be starting some late round rookie at receiver and have Grossman or Beck overthrow him three times a game is insane to me. I would rather bring in Braylon Edwards and let him get booed by the fans and trashed by talk radio. I think Chris Horton is an interesting case study. He was thrown into a starter's job, dumb lucked his way into some big plays, but I'm not sure he ever actually learned how to play his position.[/quote'] Curious on two things: 1) Why don't you like Moss? 2) What makes you think Holmes is worth breaking the bank on? Not saying he isn't, but am curious as it seems you have watched him more than I have. Edit: I highly doubt Holmes wants to come here. Would be hard going from playing in the AFC championship and contending for a title to playing for 3rd place in our division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truant Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 OK...Mike Williams Williams got a contract extension last year. He can be waived if he reports to camp overweight, but all indications are that he'd actually lost weight since the season ended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Williams got a contract extension last year. He can be waived if he reports to camp overweight, but all indications are that he'd actually lost weight since the season ended. Oh OK...sorry about that. I just searched for a list and assumed it was correct. I didn't do my due diligence. Thanks for the info! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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