SnyderShrugged Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Oh, I forgot, we are using the SnyderShrugged scale.Libertarians are the only "conservatives" - everyone else is a naughty liberal. Dick Cheney is the same as Noam Chomsky. No there are other forms of conservative. and yes, I do use a certain scale to measure our pols by. How much they increase the spending, debt and size of the federal state are the primary drivers, with personal individual liberty as a close second. Cheney fails in all of the above, just the same as most neo-cons and liberals do. ---------- Post added January-18th-2011 at 03:41 PM ---------- They may be leftist, but that's just like saying WBC is Christian. yet, they are. (I think we can agree that there are degrees of each, those being the "bad" ones) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 No there are other forms of conservative. and yes, I do use a certain scale to measure our pols by. How much they increase the spending, debt and size of the federal state are the primary drivers, with personal individual liberty as a close second.Cheney fails in all of the above, just the same as most neo-cons and liberals do So where does Jerry Brown fit on your scale? Is he a liberal or a conservative? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 phallacy Eh ... Dr Freud would like a word with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Eh ... Dr Freud would like a word with you. so, I'm saying he's wrong and has penus envy. What's wrong with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Umm... I think you got it backwards... I think this argument is aimed at SS. tsk tsk. You just like sparring with me even though you are almost always wrong. no i got it right I was agreeing/supporting your post. You didn't serve up that monstrocity you thwacked it back across the net... I guess you aren't a tenis,badmitton, ping pong or volleyball player. ---------- Post added January-18th-2011 at 05:20 PM ---------- yuck! beck! I didnt compare them to democrats I compared them to liberals. There is a difference you know? Anyone who endorses Wilsons policies is in the neo-con/liberal camp (IMHO) I do know... because Woodrow Wilson was a democrat, but wasn't a liberal. Teddy Roosevelt and Taft split the republican liberal vote in 1912 which allowed the rather conservative Wilson ( former Klu Klux Klan member ) into office. Still modern neocons aren't democrats and aren't inspired by Wilson. They are pure died in the wool republicans who often times have spent decades in power in multiple Republican administrations. Take Richar Perl for example... Nixon, Regan, Bush Sr. and Bush Jr. Or Wolfowitz... again he hit every GOP adiminstration since Eisenhower. Skooter Libby... He hit what 3/4.. Dick Cheney again 4-4. Rumsfeld, 3-4..... These guys have been Republicans their entire adult lives. How anybody could claim they were secretly democrats is just bulderdash... As Burgold has already stated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnyderShrugged Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 So where does Jerry Brown fit on your scale? Is he a liberal or a conservative? Honestly, I dont know too much about him. (He's the new/old CA gov, right?) I'd have to do some research before I could wage an opinion ---------- Post added January-18th-2011 at 05:25 PM ---------- no i got it right I was agreeing/supporting your post. You didn't serve up that monstrocity you thwacked it back across the net... I guess you aren't a tenis,badmitton, ping pong or volleyball player.---------- Post added January-18th-2011 at 05:20 PM ---------- I do know... because Woodrow Wilson was a democrat, but wasn't a liberal. Teddy Roosevelt and Taft split the republican liberal vote in 1912 which allowed the rather conservative Wilson ( former Klu Klux Klan member ) into office. Still modern neocons aren't democrats and aren't inspired by Wilson. They are pure died in the wool republicans who often times have spent decades in power in multiple Republican administrations. Take Richar Perl for example... Nixon, Regan, Bush Sr. and Bush Jr. Or Wolfowitz... again he hit every GOP adiminstration since Eisenhower. Skooter Libby... He hit what 3/4... These guys have been Republicans their entire adult lives. How anybody could claim they were secretly democrats is just bulderdash... As Burgold has already stated. errrr, I thought I already explained and pointed out that I never once called anyone a democrat. Why do you keep saying it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiebear Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 There are some times you shouldn't respond. Are you people saying she shouldn't respond to accusations of militia type murder? Just let it go, like a water off a ducks back. No harm really done, just intent to incite a serial killer if best possibilites came true? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Well, in the short-term, choosing Palin probably gave Obama a much larger victory than there would have been if McCain had just picked a random other Republican as VP. This helped to create a bigger majority in the House, a little more room to operate in the Senate, and contributed to a health care bill passing by the skin of its teeth. In the medium-term, a fired-up Tea Party base has helped the Republicans take back the House of Representatives. In the long-term ... call me in 2012. Here I must disagree with you. Pallin was a great VP candidate for McCain. She energized his base and really energized his entire campaign. She gave him a double digit bump in the poles ( temporary as it was); and that about all you can ask your VP candidate to do..... I'm not a big fan of Sarah Pallin, but I don't think she hurt the GOP ticket in 2008. She put McCAin in a position weeks before the election of having a chance to win. which is really more than most VP candidates accomplish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 There are some times you shouldn't respond.Are you people saying she shouldn't respond to accusations of militia type murder? Just let it go, like a water off a ducks back. No harm really done, just intent to incite a serial killer if best possibilites came true? I think timing is everything. I think speaking against the first backlash was appropriate. I thought her second attempt which of saying "Woe is me" and "Why is everybody picking on me" on the day of the memorial was at best unnecessary and at worst in very bad taste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 There are some times you shouldn't respond.Are you people saying she shouldn't respond to accusations of militia type murder? Just let it go, like a water off a ducks back. No harm really done, just intent to incite a serial killer if best possibilites came true? I think responding was appropriote... But using such an emotionally charged phrase like Blood Libel in a totally off the wall and inappropriate way just intensified the debate; it didn't really serve any other purpose than to stoke the flames.. Which is why folks are critisizing her.. That and the fact that many don't believe she knew the significance of the term; which many think is really even worse. ---------- Post added January-18th-2011 at 05:40 PM ---------- Honestly, I dont know too much about him. (He's the new/old CA gov, right?)I'd have to do some research before I could wage an opinion Reagan coined the term Governor Moon Beam to describe Jerry Brown. Or was it Pat Buchannon, Reagan's communications director.... Brown is a famous Liberal and the son of a famouse political family in California. He's known for being socially very liberal; ( camping with Linda Ronsted in the national parks while Governor in the 1980's for example )... He's also known for being a bit of an activist on issues like green energy, electric cars, and alternative transpertation. Bike Paths etc.... Oddly enough he's also rather fiscal conservative. As I would define that term probable not you. He's responsible. He believes in paying for your policies and not borrowing huge amounts of money. For california that likely means new and higher taxes. ---------- Post added January-18th-2011 at 05:52 PM ---------- Yes, Moore is more like Rush Limbaugh. He very carefully puts his arguments together so his supporters can say 'point out where his facts are wrong.' Rush isn't really a journalist. He started out as an entertainer. A funny guy doing shtick on the Democrats. Then he got so popular he started to take himself more seriously. But he still does shtick.... I would agree that Michael Moore does introduce humor into his video editorials; as Rush does his radio show. Probable just as unfairly to their opposition; But I would disagree that Rush is as factually accurate or crafts his arguments with a fraction of the effort as Moore. Part of that is medium. Rush does four to five hours a day 5-6 days a week. Michael Moore does what 1.5 - 2 hours and has literally a year to prepare for it. It's a much finer product. Moore definitely does as you have pointed out ignore the opposing side of the argument in his presentations. That's what marks him as a non journalist or none documentary film maker in this iteration of himself. But I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. I think that's common practice in the editorial page. It is a fact that I'm Jewish. It's also a fact that in the seventh grade I got into a fight with an Episcopalian kid and clocked him in the face. A propagandist like Michael Moore would take those facts and suggest that Jews like to beat up Christian kids. Which is a lie. Based on facts. That's Beck more but not that specific example... I think you have a point though. What Moore would do is what he did to Wolfowitz. Moore basically listed the charges against wolfowitz, showed video of him pushing the country to war in support of those charges... But then Moore goes the extra mile; and spends 2 minutes showing Wolfowitz licking his comb, spitting on his hair, trying to get his collock to lay down before a television interview. It's definitely was funny, and entirely unfair. But Moore uses that for humor; the charges against Wolfowitz were introduced and supported beyond that bit of sensationalism. I do agree with you that Moore has a position and builds his case to support that position; and entirely ignores the oposing point of view. Which in my opinion is worse on the level of intellectual dishonesty than some columnist who just states an opinion based on his own openly admitted political leanings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Reagan coined the term Governor Moon Beam to describe Jerry Brown. Or was it Pat Buchannon, Reagan's communications director....Brown is a famous Liberal and the son of a famouse political family in California. He's known for being socially very liberal; ( camping with Linda Ronsted in the national parks while Governor in the 1980's for example )... He's also known for being a bit of an activist on issues like green energy, electric cars, and alternative transpertation. Bike Paths etc.... Oddly enough he's also rather fiscal conservative. As I would define that term probable not you. He's responsible. He believes in paying for your policies and not borrowing huge amounts of money. For california that likely means new and higher taxes. Actually, in the current budget he proposes cutting 12.5 billion in cuts that Arnold Schwartznegger was unwilling to do, including 10 percent pay cuts for state workers and the axing of entire departments. So I'm still trying to understand if he is a "liberal" to SnyderShrugged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnyderShrugged Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Actually, in the current budget he proposes cutting 12.5 billion in cuts that Arnold Schwartznegger was unwilling to do, including 10 percent pay cuts for state workers and the axing of entire departments. So I'm still trying to understand if he is a "liberal" to SnyderShrugged. LIke I said, I wouldnt know enough about him to say either way. (I'm a social liberal myself, btw) Based exclusively on what you say here, he sounds like he's on the right track at least. I'd need to know his whole body of work to say more. I just read what JMS said about him too, and I can at least appreciate that he would like to avoid more debt. If he is consistant in that, while reducing the size of government, I can probably respect him as a fiscal conservative. Not sure what else you want me to explain since I have very little knowledge of him or his history. btw, I consider Arny a liberal as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aREDSKIN Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Palin is clearly opportunistic here. She doesn't come from much and she has created a windfall for herself. I don't want her to represent me in the government but good for her personally. What's really disappointing to me is that so many news organizations feed this phenomenon. Since she quit on Alaska, Palin isn't responsible to anyone but her family. I would hope that the news organizations are responsible to the public but apparently they have other priorities. I think the Democrats are allowing themselves to be distracted but I'll defer to their own sense of self interest. :applause: :applause: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Actually, in the current budget he proposes cutting 12.5 billion in cuts that Arnold Schwartznegger was unwilling to do, including 10 percent pay cuts for state workers and the axing of entire departments. So I'm still trying to understand if he is a "liberal" to SnyderShrugged. He is going to throw the entire weight of the governorship during his honeymoon period behind new taxes for the State, while cutting the budget, while cutting state salaries. So Snyder Shrugged is going to claim him as a liberal. It's not a wild claim, Jery Brown was a textbook example of a liberal in the 1980's. He just also happens to be fiscally responsible something many conservatives don't want to associate with liberal. I would think Jerry Brown descibes himself as a liberal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnyderShrugged Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 He is going to throw the entire weight of the governorship during his honeymoon period behind new taxes for the State. So Snyder Shrugged is going to claim him as a liberal. It's not a wild claim, Jery Brown was a textbook example of a liberal in the 1980's. He just also happens to be fiscally responsible. LIke I said though, I'll reserve judgement until events unfold. You all might be surprised that I actually find that I respect the common liberal a bit more than the common neo-con. At least most liberals are honest in their descriptions of themselves and wear their belief (though severely misguided economically IMHO) on their sleeves. The common neo-con will profess fidelity to small government and personal liberty, and even fiscal conservatism, yet their deeds display the lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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