mardi gras skin Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 And I like it. A little more politicial "fight" like this from both sides of the political spectrum is exactly what I want. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/14/AR2011011404663.html The idea of American exceptionalism is obnoxious to progressives, who, evidently unaware of the idea's long pedigree (it traces to Alexis de Tocqueville) and the rich scholarship concerning the idea, assume it is a crude strain of patriotism. America, Tocqueville said, is unique because it was born free - free of a feudal past, free from an entrenched aristocracy and established religion.The American Revolution was a political, not a social, revolution; it was about emancipating individuals for the pursuit of happiness, not about the state allocating wealth and opportunity. Hence our exceptional Constitution, which says not what government must do for Americans but what it cannot do to them. Americans are exceptionally committed to limited government because they are exceptionally confident of social mobility through personal striving. And they are exceptionally immune to a distinctively modern pessimism: It holds that individuals are powerless to assert their autonomy against society's vast impersonal forces, so people must become wards of government, which supposedly is the locus and engine of society's creativity. I love these high high browed slap downs. I know the left isn't afraid to be smug either. Anyone want to recommend a George Will on the left that I can read more often? I'm down one liberal in Krugman and I'm looking for some candidates to fill his spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 Trying to avoid getting into an analysis of Will's article, I'll observe that I've seen Krugman pieces that I thought were exceptionally well reasoned and well written. Yes, I've also seen some real stinkers and some outright lunacy, too. Feel the same way about Will. (No, I can't really think of a shining example of either, right now. I simply remember times when I've read something they've written, and had those emotions.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HailGreen28 Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 And I like it. A little more politicial "fight" like this from both sides of the political spectrum is exactly what I want. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/14/AR2011011404663.html The idea of American exceptionalism is obnoxious to progressives, who, evidently unaware of the idea's long pedigree (it traces to Alexis de Tocqueville) and the rich scholarship concerning the idea, assume it is a crude strain of patriotism. America, Tocqueville said, is unique because it was born free - free of a feudal past, free from an entrenched aristocracy and established religion. The American Revolution was a political, not a social, revolution; it was about emancipating individuals for the pursuit of happiness, not about the state allocating wealth and opportunity. Hence our exceptional Constitution, which says not what government must do for Americans but what it cannot do to them. Americans are exceptionally committed to limited government because they are exceptionally confident of social mobility through personal striving. And they are exceptionally immune to a distinctively modern pessimism: It holds that individuals are powerless to assert their autonomy against society's vast impersonal forces, so people must become wards of government, which supposedly is the locus and engine of society's creativity. I love these high high browed slap downs. I know the left isn't afraid to be smug either. Anyone want to recommend a George Will on the left that I can read more often? I'm down one candidate in Krugman and I'm looking for some candidates to fill his spot. That's oratorical greatness, not smugness. Love him or hate him, he's a master at getting good ideas across.You want smugness, one of the wittiest things I've seen was on the Colbert Reporrrr, where George Will was asked something like who was smarter him or Sam Donaldson, and Will replied (paraphrasing): "If volume was the fount of knowledge, Sam would be. But it's not, he's not, and I am." For something I disagree with Will on, I still like his description of football (Will is a die-hard baseball #1 fan): "Football combines the worst two things of american society. Committee meetings, and violence." For more towards the left, Bill Maher has some good stuff. "We have the Bill of Rights. What we need is a Bill of Responsibilities. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardi gras skin Posted January 16, 2011 Author Share Posted January 16, 2011 Trying to avoid getting into an analysis of Will's article, You're restraint is admirable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 Just to be a jerk... how come conservatives are okay with being exceptional but hate when Americans are elite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duckus Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 Just to be a jerk... how come conservatives are okay with being exceptional but hate when Americans are elite. :ols: An exceptional country whose citizens demand it leaders to be "regular folk." Strange indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HailGreen28 Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 :ols:An exceptional country whose citizens demand it leaders to be "regular folk." Strange indeed. "Ordinary people are capable of extraordinary things." - Ronald Reagan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexey Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 Founding fathers were all liberals. America is based on fundamentally liberal valuies. Only liberals are truly capable of really understanding and appreciating just how great America is. In other words, **** You George Will, you lying sack of partisan hackery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnyderShrugged Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 Founding fathers were all liberals. America is based on fundamentally liberal valuies. Only liberals are truly capable of really understanding and appreciating just how great America is. In other words, **** You George Will, you partisan hack. someone doesnt understand the difference between a classical liberal and a modern one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexey Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 someone doesnt understand the difference between a classical liberal and a modern one. yeah that somebody must be forgetting that modern liberals are really all about a huge government that controls eveything, takes away people's money, feedom, and social mobility, supports everybody, discourages creativity and initiative, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HailGreen28 Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 yeah that somebody must be forgetting that modern liberals are really all about a huge government that controls eveything, takes away people's money, feedom, and social mobility, supports everybody, discourages creativity and initiative, etc.And conservatives are all about feeding the rich, starving the poor, and making planet Earth uninhabitable, LOL.Really wish everybody would stick to defining THEMSELVES, without fingerpointing or rolling their eyes at the other side while doing so. Then we could get so much good done on the things we agree on. But study and experience prove, that negative advertising and creating "enemies" sells. Both ways. And god forbid if the "other side" is trying to be the "unifier". Can't have that!!!!11111oneoneone "He's such a divider!!!!!!11111111" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexey Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 And conservatives are all about feeding the rich, starving the poor, and making planet Earth uninhabitable, LOL.Really wish everybody would stick to defining THEMSELVES, without fingerpointing or rolling their eyes at the other side while doing so. Then we could get so much good done on the things we agree on. But study and experience prove, that negative advertising and creating "enemies" sells. Both ways. And god forbid if the "other side" is trying to be the "unifier". Can't have that!!!!11111oneoneone "He's such a divider!!!!!!11111111" Exactly. That's why people like George Will need to stfu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjah Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 "Ordinary people are capable of extraordinary things." - Ronald Reagan Pretty sure Reagan didn't invent that sentiment -- so there's little point in putting his name next to it, as if it's somehow reflective of real-world GOP (so-called "conservative") governance. The Founding Fathers largely were exceptional men for their day, and certainly intellectually "elite." Not regular folks. George Will is feeling frisky because he's wearing a freshly pressed and creased pair of blue denim pants. Casual attire gets the ol' blood moving to his bathing suit area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnyderShrugged Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 yeah that somebody must be forgetting that modern liberals are really all about a huge government that controls eveything, takes away people's money, feedom, and social mobility, supports everybody, discourages creativity and initiative, etc. not even sure how this fits the context of our conversation, but whatever makes ya feel good man. You mentioned the founders being liberals, and I corrected you that many were whats termed as "classical liberal". nothing more, nothing less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 "Ordinary people are capable of extraordinary things." - Ronald Reagan Such as the El Mozote massacre. Shining City my ass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardi gras skin Posted January 16, 2011 Author Share Posted January 16, 2011 Exactly. That's why people like George Will need to stfu. "I believe in American exceptionalism, just as I suspect that the Brits believe in British exceptionalism, and the Greeks believe in Greek exceptionalism." _Barack Obama If Palin had said something like that we would have called her dumb. George Will was correct in his assessment that progressives (at least one important progressive) apparently don't understand the meaning of the phrase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 George Will was correct in his assessment that progressives (at least one important progressive) apparently don't understand the meaning of the phrase. Until the Republican-controlled Congress starts to limit government, making it the first to do so, his article rings of empty bull****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 Just to be a jerk... how come conservatives are okay with being exceptional but hate when Americans are elite. Huh, I was hoping at least someone would disagree with me. Apparently it's true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubbs Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 Just to be a jerk... how come conservatives are okay with being exceptional but hate when Americans are elite. I can't stand that ****. Combining the three branches, there are 545 people who ultimately control the most powerful government in the history of the world. You're damn right I want them to be elite. Founding fathers were all liberals. America is based on fundamentally liberal valuies. Only liberals are truly capable of really understanding and appreciating just how great America is. In other words, **** You George Will, you lying sack of partisan hackery. What in the world are you talking about? That came out of nowhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardi gras skin Posted January 16, 2011 Author Share Posted January 16, 2011 Huh, I was hoping at least someone would disagree with me. Apparently it's true. American Exceptionalism has nothing to do with being elite. Until the Republican-controlled Congress starts to limit government, making it the first to do so, his article rings of empty bull****. Had you read the article, you would have found that George Will agrees with you about modern Republicans. Conservative senators passing through the Capitol reception room should ponder the portrait of Ohio's Robert Taft (d. 1953), who was conservatism when it stressed congressional supremacy. America was born in recoil against an overbearing executive's "repeated injuries and usurpations" (the Declaration of Independence); modern conservatism was born in reaction against executive aggrandizement, first by Franklin Roosevelt, then by his acolyte Lyndon Johnson.But beginning in 1968, Republicans won five of six and then seven of 10 presidential elections, and experienced rapture with Ronald Reagan. Then they lost their wholesome wariness of executive power. Today, conservatives should curl up with a good book by a founding editor of National Review - James Burnham's "Congress and the American Tradition." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 Had you read the article, you would have found that George Will agrees with you about modern Republicans. If he did, why did he specifically name Obama and Pelosi in the article, and not mention the behavior of the previous White House which openly mocked the idea of being accountable to Congress? Answer: because Will is a shameless partisan hack like the rest of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HailGreen28 Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 Exactly. That's why people like George Will need to stfu.Way to miss the point.Pretty sure Reagan didn't invent that sentiment -- so there's little point in putting his name next to it, as if it's somehow reflective of real-world GOP (so-called "conservative") governance.The Founding Fathers largely were exceptional men for their day, and certainly intellectually "elite." Not regular folks. George Will is feeling frisky because he's wearing a freshly pressed and creased pair of blue denim pants. Casual attire gets the ol' blood moving to his bathing suit area. It's a quote. A good one. Obama has similar. And why gloss over that compared to the class culture in the UK and the time, the founding fathers were beneath the gentry. About Will, why make ridiculous caricatures of people?It's okay, mjah, you can be "purple" now. Right? Such as the El Mozote massacre. Shining City my ass Oooh. Nice pull. Yes, because the FMLN, Shining Path, and the whole situation in central america was so rosy.BTW - That's not what "Shining city on a hill" was about. But way to play negative politics from the 80's. Feel like judging both sides by the same standards? Or are you willing to go all the way back to blaming one ameoba for seperating for another, if you think you can spin it right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardi gras skin Posted January 16, 2011 Author Share Posted January 16, 2011 If he did, why did he specifically name Obama and Pelosi in the article, and not mention the behavior of the previous White House... Or Clinton or Reagan or Carter or... whiff! You have many good reasons to consider George Will a partisan hack. You missed on this one. Back on topic...Larry is the only one to recommend a liberal partisan hack and I'm no longer interested in Krugman. Any other recommendations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 American Exceptionalism has nothing to do with being elite. ????? How can you be exceptional without being elite? Aren't they pretty synonymous? Don't we want to be the elite military power have elite soldiers and marines the elite car maker have elite workers and designers the elite software designers the elite chip makers the elite minds I guess you can believe in eceptionalism and not want to be elite, but only if you want to be exceptionally bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HailGreen28 Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 Or Clinton or Reagan or Carter or...whiff! You have many good reasons to consider George Will a partisan hack. You missed on this one. Back on topic...Larry is the only one to recommend a liberal partisan hack and I'm no longer interested in Krugman. Any other recommendations? How about Bill Maher? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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