Switching back to a 4-3

[Homercles82]

They were 4-12, but in most of the games only because of the defense. What's the saying, if it ain't broke, don't break it. Being 4-12 doesn't mean changing the perfectly good defensive scheme with ill-suited personnel to run it was going to work. That's madness. If you overhaul a top-10, it had better be better become a top-5 defense.

I will repost what I said earlier.

We as fans wanted change. We screamed for it. We wrote essays on how change was needed. Now that we got the coaching changes, we need player changes. Our talent level is not right for the 3-4 admittedly, but it was not right for the 4-3 either because we were still losing games on big plays or inability to stop teams down the stretch. Our 4-3 defense last year lost to Carolina, Detroit (WTF?) and KC. Why go back to it? It squandered a 6 - 0 lead against the Cowboys in the end of the game. It got TORCHED by the Giants. It got beat by Dallas again 17 - 0. It let BILLY VOLEK get a TD to win the game with 39 seconds left. BILLY VOLEK against our STARTERS. Stop asking for the 4-3 back. It wasn't working.

[justice98]

I will repost what I said earlier.

Would you rather have last year's defense or this year's defense? Alright then. You can't get any worse than worst in the league.

[Homercles82]

Would you rather have last year's defense or this year's defense? Alright then.

This years because change has to start sometime.

I would rather us try something new and get similar results instead of sticking with a top 10 D (in yardage ONLY) and getting the same results.

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

The braintrust has clearly decided they're going to lose some games this year in exchange for getting a headstart on installing the 3-4 rather than waiting to fill out the defense over the next few seasons. I agree with this, because while our offense can be explosive we still need to get the run game going and continue fixing the line, so we're not looking at being contenders yet. So at worst we're sacrificing a 5th or 6th seed by thinking long-term now. (And before you mention the McNabb and Brown trades as being short-term, Brown is still a 28 year old 4th year veteran who plays a position where guys last a while, and McNabb plays a position where QBs can last absolutely forever if they stay healthy and productive, and both were major need positions that we needed to draft anyway)

Keep in mind that the 2009 Washington Redskins were quite possibly not just a bad team, but a historically bad team (remember, the 2009 schedule was one of the softest we've ever seen, and they went 4-12). This is essentially the same team with a better QB. And all the people pining for Haynesworth? It's his fault he doesn't want to play the system, not Shanahan's fault for catering to a single player.

Overall, we need to trade Carter and maybe Haynesworth at the deadline (I say maybe because I don't want to give up on his talent level so quickly), find ourselves a NT somehow (bring in some big strong guys and see which of them can play the position - that's how a lot of other teams find their NTs), and we need to get better corners (was REALLY hoping the situation with Revis would go south).

[Homercles82]

The braintrust has clearly decided they're going to lose some games this year in exchange for getting a headstart on installing the 3-4 rather than waiting to fill out the defense over the next few seasons. I agree with this, because while our offense can be explosive we still need to get the run game going and continue fixing the line, so we're not looking at being contenders yet. So at worst we're sacrificing a 5th or 6th seed by thinking long-term now. (And before you mention the McNabb and Brown trades as being short-term, Brown is still a 28 year old 4th year veteran who plays a position where guys last a while, and McNabb plays a position where QBs can last absolutely forever if they stay healthy and productive, and both were major need positions that we needed to draft anyway)

Keep in mind that the 2009 Washington Redskins were quite possibly not just a bad team, but a historically bad team (remember, the 2009 schedule was one of the softest we've ever seen, and they went 4-12). This is essentially the same team with a better QB. And all the people pining for Haynesworth? It's his fault he doesn't want to play the system, not Shanahan's fault for catering to a single player.

Overall, we need to trade Carter and maybe Haynesworth at the deadline (I say maybe because I don't want to give up on his talent level so quickly), find ourselves a NT somehow (bring in some big strong guys and see which of them can play the position - that's how a lot of other teams find their NTs), and we need to get better corners (was REALLY hoping the situation with Revis would go south).

I wish we could have this post auto-post whenever a thread title includes the words "3-4", "Haslette", "4-3" and any combination of them. Such a great post.

[justice98]

This years because change has to start sometime.

I would rather us try something new and get similar results instead of sticking with a top 10 D (in yardage ONLY) and getting the same results.

Changing it this year doesn't mean anything. Half these guys won't be on the team when the 3-4 starts clicking next year (if there is a year) or two years from now. You're changing it for guys that aren't going to matter.

Considering they've given up 30 points in back to back games AND are last in yards, being good at anything would be an improvement, even if it's yards only.

[Homercles82]

Changing it this year doesn't mean anything. Half these guys won't be on the team when the 3-4 starts clicking next year (if there is a year) or two years from now. You're changing it for guys that aren't going to matter.

Considering they've given up 30 points in back to back games AND are last in yards, being good at anything would be an improvement, even if it's yards only.

Your first sentence is exactly WHY they switched now. For those they will be keeping it will be a learning experience and they can tutor newer players to the scheme. Why you want to hold onto something from a 4-12 season is beyond me. I wanted to blow the whole thing up and we came rather close to it.

[TheGreek1973]

No one can doubt that if we were playing a 4-3 D we would be 3-0 right now. AC is lost in this D. Albert is beyond lost. The LBs are lost you can see the wide open spaces when a back breaks the line. We had decent Ds the past 4 years and our players are used to that scheme. if i was the coach i would say bring it back one week and lets see how we do. At this point you have nothing to lose because they are running on you and they are passing on you. Hell we are last in the league.

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

I admit that we'd be 3-0. But we asked for a Redskins braintrust that looks towards next year and beyond, instead of just next week, and we got it. But sometimes you have to sacrifice next week for next year.

We ARE rebuilding, but trying to rebuild while staying competitive. We have to both restock our talent, AND create a winning atmosphere.

[Homercles82]

I think if they truly had a "Win now" mentality they would have left the defense alone. they obviously saw flaws in the existing 4-3 scheme and players, felt it needed change and know that it will take a couple seasons to make the change fully.

We have been a losing team for so long no one can take it anymore.

[dallasfan]

Parcells didn't institute the 3-4 right away in Dallas because he knew it wouldn't work with what they had, but eventually he did when he got the players he needed to make it work. Shanahan and Haslett should've taken that approach.

Not quit true. While he didn't switch right away, it was because he wasn't going to. In the 2003 draft, parcells first with us, he added no players you would consider 3-4 guys. We drafted Bradie James, but that wasn't till rd 4. We actually were #1 in yards allowed that year. In 04 we didn't really add any defensive players and then the wheels fell off and we were terrible on D. In 05' we threw all our draft picks into 3-4 guys so we could transition in 1 year.

[justice98]

Your first sentence is exactly WHY they switched now. For those they will be keeping it will be a learning experience and they can tutor newer players to the scheme. Why you want to hold onto something from a 4-12 season is beyond me. I wanted to blow the whole thing up and we came rather close to it.

Presumably, anybody they bring in will have some experience in a 3-4, so they won't need any extensive tutoring. If they bring in more 4-3 guys that've never played in a 3-4, then they're in for a world of hurt.

You have to look at the team and see what worked and what didn't. By your rationale, London Fletcher should've been jettisoned as he was part of the 4-12 team. Just because you're 4-12 doesn't mean absolutely everything must go. True, at 4-12, it must mean some things must be overhauled, but some other things might only need to be tweaked.

[Homercles82]

Presumably, anybody they bring in will have some experience in a 3-4, so they won't need any extensive tutoring. If they bring in more 4-3 guys that've never played in a 3-4, then they're in for a world of hurt.

You have to look at the team and see what worked and what didn't. By your rationale, London Fletcher should've been jettisoned as he was part of the 4-12 team. Just because you're 4-12 doesn't mean absolutely everything must go. True, at 4-12, it must mean some things must be overhauled, but some other things might only need to be tweaked.

Which is what they did. I was asking for a overhaul completely, not just of personel. I am happy with the changes. Of course I hate seeing the team lose on Sundays but growing pains will happen.

[1198skinsfuture]

we need corners that play bump and run and stop playing zone...if we dont jam at the linethey are getting into their routes which are timing routes...with timing routes the ball is out before we can generate pressure...we r getting beat consistently on 1 2 and 3-step drops...thats why we only had 1 sack

[justice98]

we need corners that play bump and run and stop playing zone...if we dont jam at the linethey are getting into their routes which are timing routes...with timing routes the ball is out before we can generate pressure...we r getting beat consistently on 1 2 and 3-step drops...thats why we only had 1 sack

I think if we had corners with make up speed, they might be more inclined to play up.

[CounterTrey]

When Parcells joined the Cowboys he also wanted a 3-4 D from the onset but after looking at his personal that he had he decided to run a 4-3 TILL he could draft and acquire players to run a proper 3-4. Then by 3rd year after getting Ware etc he switched to a 3-4. Here it seems Shanahan decided regardless of who he had he was running a 3-4 D.

Can you imagine a 4-3 lineup with Orakpo, Haynesworth, Daniels and Carter? With London, Rock and either Riley or Lorenzo has LB's....I'm sorry but that it much better that the crap we have done in the last 3 weeks.

[Devastate]

Haslet is a 4-3 coach if I recall. I'm not sure why shanny thought it was a good idea to change to the 3-4 when we have a 4-3 coach and players.. Just doesnt seem smart. Get the coach, get the players then make the switch.. Shanny is a great coach I have all the confidence in him. But good coaches adjust their scheme to fit the talent and put their players in the best situation to succeed.. We are not seeing this on the defensive side of the ball.

[Devastate]

When Parcells joined the Cowboys he also wanted a 3-4 D from the onset but after looking at his personal that he had he decided to run a 4-3 TILL he could draft and acquire players to run a proper 3-4. Then by 3rd year after getting Ware etc he switched to a 3-4. Here it seems Shanahan decided regardless of who he had he was running a 3-4 D.

Can you imagine a 4-3 lineup with Orakpo, Haynesworth, Daniels and Carter? With London, Rock and either Riley or Lorenzo has LB's....I'm sorry but that it much better that the crap we have done in the last 3 weeks.

Don't have to imagine it.. we had it last year to the tune of 11 sacks for rac and 10 for carter.. 3 games in... 1 sack between them both..

[justice98]

Haslet is a 4-3 coach if I recall. I'm not sure why shanny thought it was a good idea to change to the 3-4 when we have a 4-3 coach and players.. Just doesnt seem smart. Get the coach, get the players then make the switch.. Shanny is a great coach I have all the confidence in him. But good coaches adjust their scheme to fit the talent and put their players in the best situation to succeed.. We are not seeing this on the defensive side of the ball.

Haslett's coached both the 4-3 and 3-4. He came up under Dick LeBeau running the 3-4.

The funny thing is, they've got all these crazy formations and personnel groupings and blitzes, and none of it works. The opponent's don't seem impressed. It's like Haslett's throwing things against a wall to see what sticks.

[Homercles82]

Haslett's coached both the 4-3 and 3-4. He came up under Dick LeBeau running the 3-4.

The funny thing is, they've got all these crazy formations and personnel groupings and blitzes, and none of it works. The opponent's don't seem impressed. It's like Haslett's throwing things against a wall to see what sticks.

They are not gelling. The DB's are playing out of position. Did you see how open Roy Williams was on the last play of the Dallas game? How the hell do you let Doughty get alone on Andre Johnson? Why does Hall run up to make the hit on Bradford when he fakes a run to the outside when CLEARLY Holliday had him stopped at the one? Hall moving up left that no name open to get the second TD for the Rams.

[Chicken Fried]

I don't think they will switch D in the middle of a season specially after week 3. I think the main problem is we just dont have the right personnel to fit the 3-4. Yea the 3-4 is can be sick but we have 4-3 personnel. So they are just gonna patch it up the best they can and come next year we will switch to 4-3 or recruit the right players for 3-4.

The problem is that we are a solid 6-8 starters away from fielding a great 3-4. We only have a very few suited for a 3-4. This defensive project could take 3 years. We don't have the time, and McNabb doesn't either. Let's switch right now.

[Homercles82]

The problem is that we are a solid 6-8 starters away from fielding a great 3-4. We only have a very few suited for a 3-4. This defensive project could take 3 years. We don't have the time, and McNabb doesn't either. Let's switch right now.

They are not going to switch schemes in season. Get over it.

[jivelikenice]

I think the 3-4 could work but absolutely do not like the personel as currently placed in our lineup. If we're going to go with this we need to go all-in and and stop giving some players preferential treatment over others.

Andre Carter has no business as as starting OLB in a 3-4

Ma'ake K. has no business being the starting NT today

Kedric Golston has no business starting at RDE

1. Move Chris Wilson to LOLB

2. Put Anthony Bryant in the starting lineup (Not a concidence our best game vs. the run was the only game he played extensively)

3. Start Big Al at RDE and give Lorenzo Alexander more pt there as well....(Btw, I still don't get Zo's move to OLB. As a hyrbid DT/DE wouldn't he be ideal for a 3-4 DE?

4. Let Andre Carter rush from a DE position on passing downs....

[Morneblade]

We wouldn't give up as many yards but we probably wouldn't generate as many turnovers.

Bull****. The 3-4 isnt any better at creating turnovers. Its how you play the system.You have Blache run a 3-4 and you get nothing. You have Gregg Williams run a 4-3 (like he does in NO) and you get tons. Our problem is we are a running a 3-4 with 4-3 players.

[jivelikenice]

Excuse me but Greg Williams didn't create turnovers here as well and we ranked near the bottom if not dead last with Williams consistently. They're creating turnovers in NO because he knows he has an offense capable of putting up 40 a game so he is playing a lot more aggressively than he did over here. He also has had players (i.e. Vilma and Sharper) who have historically been able to create turnovers and a loud dome which makes it much more difficult then playing at Fed Ex with our neutered fanbase that can't create any noise because they're bitter over parking or Snyder making money off of them.....