How can this government create jobs to get this country moving forward again?

[McD5]

Ok, I see where you are coming from with you other points, but what does the estate tax have to do with anything? Like really?

It destroys family businesses built up over generations, and puts people on the streets.

I have a 60 year old client right now, that has terminal cancer. She can't buy life insurance to absorb the hit.

She owns a family business that has been passed down from generation to generation. Honest, hard-working, regular people, busting their asses 10-12 hours a day.

When she passes, that business, and everything her familly has worked for, gets crushed.

How many people will be fired when she dies? The politicians don't like to focus on those "messy" finer points.

Do you think she is going to hire additional people right now? Or do you think she is more concerned about seeing everything her family has ever worked for go straight to hell, in the form of more taxes?

She is in a position to hire. She is the one we are hurting. And by hurting her, we are hurting ourselves. It is terrible policy.

[twa]

Ok, I see where you are coming from with you other points, but what does the estate tax have to do with anything? Like really?

It, like higher tax rates removes incentive to earn(which includes hiring)

Why risk what I have, and work harder for others benefit(aside from family and friends)?...that is not good business.

[killerbee99]

Ok, but I thought there were percentages attached to how much money gets taxed, and the 55% was if you had a total inheritance of $2 million or more....havent seen too many small businesses worth that much or more...just saying.....however I do think the esate tax might be repaled eventually but it is not going to happen now, when we have a deficit...cutting taxes is just going to cut of more revenue from the government to lower our deficit. At least to the best of my limited knowledge.

[Duckus]

2. These estate taxes are a huge deal. Words cannot describe just how huge they are. Generations of wealth are now at risk. Say I am a 60 year old individual, with $3 million to my name. Maybe I accumulated that from a life insurance policy when my parents died. Or maybe I have been successful in business.

If I die now, my kids will take over my $3 million business. If I die after Jan 1, 2010, Uncle Sam will take roughly 55% of that, depending on the state.

55%? Really? What for? To extend unemployment benefits for somebody else? Or so government can go and waste that money too? No thanks.

I think the top % is too high - but at the same time I don't feel sorry for someone inheriting $1,000,000 or more (is the exclusion rate 1 million in 2011, 2009 it was 3.5 million?).

Maybe it will motivate the recipient to do something with their lives? Motive to create even more and be successful themselves - instead of simply waiting until Grandpa dies and living off his hard work. I think too much wealth in our society is passed from generation to generation to people who have done nothing but wait for someone to die.

Maybe that is bitter talk from someone whose parents are poor . I might feel different had I been a rich kid.

[killerbee99]

It, like higher tax rates removes incentive to earn(which includes hiring)

Why risk what I have, and work harder for others benefit(aside from family and friends)?...that is not good business.

I would think people will want to work to make money, rather than worry how much money their kids will get....Raise them right, setup a trust fund for them, and if they want to continue the business, then they are welcome but should be ready to pay a tax for a business they didnt create but can still keep some of the value. My thinking on this issue.

[twa]

You object to family benefiting yet have no issue with govt benefiting:silly:

What exactly did the govt do to earn it?

[killerbee99]

I think the top % is too high - but at the same time I don't feel sorry for someone inheriting $1,000,000 or more (is the exclusion rate 1 million in 2011, 2009 it was 3.5 million?).

Maybe it will motivate the recipient to do something with their lives? Motive to create even more and be successful themselves - instead of simply waiting until Grandpa dies and living off his hard work. I think too much wealth in our society is passed from generation to generation to people who have done nothing but wait for someone to die.

Maybe that is bitter talk from someone whose parents are poor . I might feel different had I been a rich kid.

Yeah, same line of thought here as well. However, will repealling the esate tax help with creating jobs as well....back to trickle down economics, which I think has been shown not to work effectivelly, rather it just accumulates more wealth at the top, while the middle class coninue to suffer

[McD5]

Ok, but I thought there were percentages attached to how much money gets taxed

That is one of the biggest problems in all areas of our economy right now, and especially with taxes: Uncertainty.

The government isn't helping to clear anything up. Everything is on hold. No one knows what will happen Jan 1, 2011. Maybe the first $1 million will be exempt for her business. Maybe it won't.

The business community, and employers, need clarity. Instead, they get none. They do get a lot of new legislation that is likely to increase their costs.....but they have no incentive to do anything right now.

There needs to be some leadership. A plan. We have nothing except the fear of hire taxes.

[killerbee99]

You object to family benefiting yet have no issue with govt benefiting:silly:

What exactly did the govt do to earn it?

Won't the family benfit from inhereting a business of someone elses sweat, and not expect the government to get a cut of that, come on now, nothing is free, even the Obamacare, we still have to pay for that as well.

[twa]

I would think people will want to work to make money, rather than worry how much money their kids will get....Raise them right, setup a trust fund for them, and if they want to continue the business, then they are welcome but should be ready to pay a tax for a business they didnt create but can still keep some of the value. My thinking on this issue.

Why work for above my needs then?

You overlook both the business and earnings have already been taxed.

You excuse the govt taking what it did not create nor work for.:beatdeadhorse:

[killerbee99]

That is one of the biggest problems in all areas of our economy right now, and especially with taxes: Uncertainty.

The government isn't helping to clear anything up. Everything is on hold. No one knows what will happen Jan 1, 2011. Maybe the first $1 million will be exempt for her business. Maybe it won't.

The business community, and employers, need clarity. Instead, they get none. They do get a lot of new legislation that is likely to increase their costs.....but they have no incentive to do anything right now.

Their needs to be some leadership. A plan. We have nothing except the fear of hire taxes.

Hmmm, okay that is definitely an issue, so how can we achieve this clarity, is it on Congress, the President to get Congress and Dems to work, bcos even as a Democrat, I still care for my fellow man, and it sucks to see people struggling to find jobs and I know this is the number issue in this country .....jobs. If Obama can figure out a way to get this economy going again, it will be an awesome feeling to see us moving forward again.

[killerbee99]

Why work for above my needs then?

You overlook both the business and earnings have already been taxed.

You excuse the govt taking what it did not create nor work for.:beatdeadhorse:

It's called TAXES for a reason.

[McD5]

Won't the family benfit from inhereting a business of someone elses sweat, and not expect the government to get a cut of that, come on now, nothing is free, even the Obamacare, we still have to pay for that as well.

This business is a family-owned restaurant. It isn't an oil company. They employ 110 people. 55 of those people are going to be out of a job. Regular, not rich people. She wasn't handed anything. She manages the restaurant, and has worked there for nearly 40 years.

Why work for above my needs then?

You overlook both the business and earnings have already been taxed.

You excuse the govt taking what it did not create nor work for.:beatdeadhorse:

Bingo. This money has already been taxed. Why tax it again? To redistribute it to the big banks, from the hands of Americans? Take jobs from normal people, and give it to the banks to sit on?

[twa]

Won't the family benfit from inhereting a business of someone elses sweat, and not expect the government to get a cut of that, come on now, nothing is free, even the Obamacare, we still have to pay for that as well.

My family is a part of me and worth my sweat and tears,and for the govt to benefit from my death is bs...most certainly at that percentage.

Nothing is free but others earnings apparently:silly:,let them pay for it

[mrdoctor]

i dont understand either

but im not complaining.. i got offered!

[twa]

It's called TAXES for a reason.

And how many times must taxes be paid on the same money and property?

Wouldn't it be simpler for the govt to just issue us what they feel we are worth?:pfft:

I'm gonna retire from this thread for the sake of civility.

[PeterMP]

My family is a part of me and worth my sweat and tears,and for the govt to benefit from my death is bs...most certainly at that percentage.

Nothing is free but others earnings apparently:silly:,let them pay for it

Come on guys.

NOBODY with a brain, a decent account or tax lawyer pays anything close to the true estate tax.

Somebody here, I think zoony, once called it a tax for the stupid rich.

I do think Obama could step up and be a better leader in terms of trying to lay out a vision of where we are going and how we are going to get there and I'm all for simplifying the tax code.

[killerbee99]

And how many times must taxes be paid on the same money and property?

Wouldn't it be simpler for the govt to just issue us what they feel we are worth?:pfft:

I'm gonna retire from this thread for the sake of civility.

But Estate taxes on money that someone inherits without having to ever work for it; I mean wouldn't that be the same thing as making money from the stock market and not wanting to pay any taxes on it? I hope my analogy makes sense.

[THEREALTOR1]

kilerbee, I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but for someone that claims not to post much, your way ahead in this thread (and that includes twa, who's been know to do his share of posting You posted a question, and i've read the responses, but you've managed to refute any/all responses to your question, to this point.

I have to wonder why you'd ask the question, when you don't really seem to be looking for an answer... :whoknows:

[McD5]

But Estate taxes on money that someone inherits without having to ever work for it; I mean wouldn't that be the same thing as making money from the stock market and not wanting to pay any taxes on it? I hope my analogy makes sense.

But who really gets hurt on estate taxes? Just the rich, right? The woman who dies? Nope, she is dead, and can't use the money.

The kids certainly get hurt. Who else gets hurt?

The employees of the restaurant, and their families, certainly get hurt. How many of them will now add to the unemployment figure?

But you and I don't work there, so it doesn't impact us, right? Just tax the other guy. Nope. Those people that just lost their job, might have been your potential clients. Now they can't buy your products or services. How many businesses is this going to hurt? How many regular people will lose jobs?

It breaks my heart whenever I see a politician referring to the estate tax as "taxing the rich." Why don't they tell the truth? Why not call it what it really is? "Causing more unemployment, and hurting all of us, and taking that money out of the economy?"

Had McCain been a better communicator, and had he explained this to people in an easy to understand manner, you wouldn't have seen fools cheer when this estate tax was mentioned. The ignorant still cheer it. If people knew what it was, they wouldn't want it. You mean I could lose my job?

So let's say she is taxed $1.5 million, for ease of math. How much of that $1.5 million taken from the economy, will find it's way back in?

Best case? Maybe some temporary census jobs. And of course, some pork. Add in a little government waste, and you aren't looking at a whole lot left.

So we go from $1.5 million being used in full-time, permanent jobs.....to part-time, census jobs that have a finite life. Brilliant! What a great idea!

Tax us more! Lose more jobs for the regular people! Wait, I mean tax the rich with the estate tax, it isn't us. It doesn't impact us, right?

[mojobo]

In my opinion the government can't really create really create jobs, it can only prevent jobs from being created. Right now in the U.S. there is a huge over consumption and under production/lack of savings and investments. If you really want to take a chunk out of unemployment you would cut the income tax in half, if not more. To help pay for this there should be massive spending cuts. Since I have no faith that this will happen with our current politicians at the very least it should be paid for by implementing a VAT or National Sales Tax. It's not the perfect solution, and there are a lot of other factors that play into this, but by taxing income from labor/savings/investments and taxing consumption a little more it will at least put is in the right direction to get through this mess.

The next thing I would do is get rid of a lot of the regulation that is being put into place. All these regulations are doing is giving big companies who spend millions on lobbying a chance to prevent competition in the markets. Regulations CAN be helpful, but not if they are used simply as a means of crony capitalism. The more and more regulations we see, the higher the barrier to entries there are in the markets. Without firms being able to enter and compete we get more expensive and lower quality goods, and it hurts our ability to compete in the global markets.

[elkabong82]

legalize it.

alcohol is worse yet legal, and this could be regulated through dispensaries much the same way that ABC does it with liquor

potential multi-billion dollar industry

[killerbee99]

kilerbee, I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but for someone that claims not to post much, your way ahead in this thread (and that includes twa, who's been know to do his share of posting You posted a question, and i've read the responses, but you've managed to refute any/all responses to your question, to this point.

I have to wonder why you'd ask the question, when you don't really seem to be looking for an answer... :whoknows:

Not really trying to be disengenious (sp?), just trying to break it down and see how these suggestions might work. If it was really that easy, wouldn't it have happened by now? Just saying....

[skinfan133]

the government isn't supposed to create jobs.

the end.

[Jrew1223]

When I listen to liberals and conservatives on the radio, tv, etc. give their two cents on how to create jobs in America, the thing I come away with is that the various models discussed both detail policies of organization that result in something that we consider positive in economic terms. The problem that I see is that everyone is pointing to these theories of hypothetical success and no one is looking at reality and getting to the core of the issue by making real time decisions be it liberal or conservative...

The only way i can see lost overseas jobs coming back to America is if somehow we enacted protectionist policies making it more expensive for maufacturers to outsource...

I think most of us are in the mindset of approaching the employment issue within our national boundaries as the entire economic universe only consists of Americans and American jobs in the American economy. Now that there are trade agreements in place and technology has advanced, the average American is no longer in competition with other Americans for a job, the average American now has to compete with people all over the world.

The jobs that don't require a lot of education are disappearing and moving to places where people will perform the same task cheaper. The jobs that remain require a certain level of education and there aren't as many of them as there were in the manual labor sector...

So what do we do?

The bottom line is that, if we don't really understand the economic condition we are in currently, the implementation of either economic theory could be used by those who have the wealth to mainain theirs and manipulate the perceptions of reality to take as much from the average citizen as they can....

The conservative theory of tax cuts could cause the top percent of Americans to dramatically increase their wealth and widen the income gap. With enough wealth, one could purchase influence and perception through the media leaving the guy struggling to make ends meet to think if the rich just had more money the trickle down theory could reach him. The result is wealth/corporate state control which is pretty much the textbook definition of fascism.

The liberal theory has the danger of being attractive to the lazy part of the average American's attitude and if one day the people we elected to represent us figure out that the majority of Americans are dependent on the state in one way or another they could easily threaten to cut off support if we express disaproval. The result is a dictatorship.

If we want to make any progress we have to understand the actual situation we are in and not argue back and forth on what model is the answer when they both can lead to a place we don't want to go....

...and no I don't think the government can do anything to help create jobs in the economy that would be worth it and lasting.