NYT: Changing Stance, Administration Now Defends Insurance Mandate as a Tax

[Thiebear]

One thing that does bother me about Politicians is the "Outright Lie".

I know it happens, but it should not be tolerated and should be censured at least. I could care less which side does it, the 3rd direct lie to the American people should be removal.

(no inferences, no gray areas, outright lying)...

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/18/health/policy/18health.html?_r=1&ref=politics

Administration officials say the tax argument is a linchpin of their legal case in defense of the health care overhaul and its individual mandate, now being challenged in court by more than 20 states and several private organizations.

Under the legislation signed by President Obama in March, most Americans will have to maintain “minimum essential coverage” starting in 2014. Many people will be eligible for federal subsidies to help them pay premiums.

In a brief defending the law, the Justice Department says the requirement for people to carry insurance or pay the penalty is “a valid exercise” of Congress’s power to impose taxes.

Congress can use its taxing power “even for purposes that would exceed its powers under other provisions” of the Constitution, the department said. For more than a century, it added, the Supreme Court has held that Congress can tax activities that it could not reach by using its power to regulate commerce.

While Congress was working on the health care legislation, Mr. Obama refused to accept the argument that a mandate to buy insurance, enforced by financial penalties, was equivalent to a tax.

“For us to say that you’ve got to take a responsibility to get health insurance is absolutely not a tax increase,” the president said last September, in a spirited exchange with George Stephanopoulos on the ABC News program “This Week.”

When Mr. Stephanopoulos said the penalty appeared to fit the dictionary definition of a tax, Mr. Obama replied, “I absolutely reject that notion.”

[twa]

I predict the Stephanopoulos interview is gonna get a lot of airtime:fortune::obvious:

[HailGreen28]

One thing that does bother me about Politicians is the "Outright Lie".

I know it happens, but it should not be tolerated and should be censured at least. I could care less which side does it, the 3rd direct lie to the American people should be removal.

(no inferences, no gray areas, outright lying)...

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/18/health/policy/18health.html?_r=1&ref=politics

The only principle at stake for the Obama administration, is to force people to get health insurance.

Which sounds good on the face of it. You're required to get car insurance to have a car.

But what car insurance does basically, is prop up an industry by a captive audience required by law to feed it. And pay for the people's accidents WHO DON'T HAVE INSURANCE. Bet health care insurance goes the same way. Like with regulations for hospitals to be reimbursed for uninsured patrons.

[Thiebear]

The only principle at stake for the Obama administration, is to force people to get health insurance.

Which sounds good on the face of it. You're required to get car insurance to have a car.

But what car insurance does basically, is prop up an industry by a captive audience required by law to feed it. And pay for the people's accidents WHO DON'T HAVE INSURANCE. Bet health care insurance goes the same way. Like with regulations for hospitals to be reimbursed for uninsured patrons.

I'm not talking at all about the 'need' or the reasoning.

I'm talking about the lying beforehand and the lack of even caring about it.

I actually believe the tax has to be a dollar more than the insurance for it to work.

I'll pay 700tax (last recommendation i read) a year vs. the 3600 for insurance, and pop in and out as needed.

[HailGreen28]

I'm not talking at all about the 'need' or the reasoning.

I'm talking about the lying beforehand and the lack of even caring about it.

In total agreement. They don't care if it's obvious lying. Just as long as they get what they want.

And just to be fair, you could say the same thing about the Bush II admin in the run-up to Gulf War II. If you understood it back then, you should be capable of understanding it now.

[aREDSKIN]

I'm surprised that anyone is surprised that "Politicians" lie through their teeth. Isn't our political history sufficient to know this by now? Isn't it prerequisite for politicians to lie? Given that many politician are "lawyers" ie trained liars it's easy for them the lie to their constituents. This admin is about as bad as any other. It's ALL the same and to pretend it's not is just ignorant. Politicians are just plain, unadulterated dissemblers.

[CrabR]

One thing that does bother me about Politicians is the "Outright Lie".]

I am tired also. I will either vote for everyone not in office [did that in 92] or vote 3rd party. I really have a hard time seeing myself for for a dem or rep ever again. They are both the same just different window dressing

[hkHog]

The only principle at stake for the Obama administration, is to force people to get health insurance.

Which sounds good on the face of it. You're required to get car insurance to have a car.

But what car insurance does basically, is prop up an industry by a captive audience required by law to feed it. And pay for the people's accidents WHO DON'T HAVE INSURANCE. Bet health care insurance goes the same way. Like with regulations for hospitals to be reimbursed for uninsured patrons.

I also think that its absurd what the government mandates as minimum health coverage. Car insurance does not cover oil changes, tune ups, new windscreen wipers, new tires, gasoline, and other routine services. It would be completely ridiculous and incredibly expensive if it did. I think that health insurance should only be there for major costly problems, and offer a free check up a year (prevention). Other than that, everything should come out of your own pocket unless you want to get amazing, and very expensive, insurance. This would go a long way to bringing down costs.

[Thiebear]

When we bodyslameed Bush1 for no new taxes it caused a stir that didnt last long but there was a fear in the eyes.

[hkHog]

Never heard of a tax that was paid directly to private companies.

[twa]

Never heard of a tax that was paid directly to private companies.

Are they really private once this goes fully into effect?

[Teller]

So I forget, do people making less than $250,000 a year have to get insurance?

Thanks, oBUMa.

[Hubbs]

I also think that its absurd what the government mandates as minimum health coverage. Car insurance does not cover oil changes, tune ups, new windscreen wipers, new tires, gasoline, and other routine services. It would be completely ridiculous and incredibly expensive if it did. I think that health insurance should only be there for major costly problems, and offer a free check up a year (prevention). Other than that, everything should come out of your own pocket unless you want to get amazing, and very expensive, insurance. This would go a long way to bringing down costs.

I've played around with that idea myself, and I think it's a necessary approach to health care. The problem lies in making the extremely complicated decisions surrounding what's "serious" enough, what's "necessary," etc. And I have absolutely no idea how to tackle all that.

[MEANDWARF]

I'm surprised that anyone is surprised that "Politicians" lie through their teeth. Isn't our political history sufficient to know this by now? Isn't it prerequisite for politicians to lie? Given that many politician are "lawyers" ie trained liars it's easy for them the lie to their constituents. This admin is about as bad as any other. It's ALL the same and to pretend it's not is just ignorant. Politicians are just plain, unadulterated dissemblers.

I'm not surprise by this. In fact whenever there is an amendment that politicians say it won't cost the taxpayers anything, I expect and tax increase. Plan and simple.