Interesting quote about Bulaga...

[mistertim]

There are more questions about Trent Williams' ability to play LT than there are about Bryan Bulaga's.

Ding Ding Ding.

[gutlead74]

There are more questions about Trent Williams' ability to play LT than there are about Bryan Bulaga's.

i disagree, williams is far more athletic than bulaga. bulaga is a very stiff athlete his hips and shoulders are unable to to move indepentantly of eachother and his feet are heavy. to play left tackle in the NFL you need to be a fluid athlete to deal with the freaks the NFL puts on the back side. while bulaga did play more LT than RT he is not the athlete Williams is. watch the combine watch the film they will both show you the same.

it did take williams a while to adapt to left side sets he was able to pull off the transition. :logo:

[gutlead74]

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2010/profiles/bryan-bulaga?id=496988

"but will struggle when speed rushers transfer that speed into power"

"There are questions about his lower body strength to hold up at the point of attack and drive defenders backwards. Bulaga can be inconsistent with his footwork when asked to deal with speed rushers or move laterally. Is not a great knee bender."

[gutlead74]

While Williams review on the same site isnt as good keep in mind Kirk ferrants (sp) is an OL guru, he is maxed out where as Williams is still improving and has more athletic ability.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2010/profiles/trent-williams?id=497073#tabs:tab-analysis

[TheMan CC47]

I've never been a big college guy so I couldn't tell you the difference between any of the three. All I know is that I pray to the good Lord above that we pick a LT and good for the next 10+ years.

[Enter Apotheosis]

i disagree, williams is far more athletic than bulaga. bulaga is a very stiff athlete his hips and shoulders are unable to to move indepentantly of eachother and his feet are heavy. to play left tackle in the NFL you need to be a fluid athlete to deal with the freaks the NFL puts on the back side. while bulaga did play more LT than RT he is not the athlete Williams is. watch the combine watch the film they will both show you the same.

it did take williams a while to adapt to left side sets he was able to pull off the transition. :logo:

People have said this over and over but... while Williams has a higher ceiling, he has a much lower floor than Bulaga. Bulaga is also clearly the better prospect on tape and there aren't any questions about his effort or desire. There's also the matter of the fact that Ferentz and Shanahan use the same kind of blocking scheme. Bulaga will be able to pick it up from day one where Williams will almost certainly struggle.

I would understand if you like Williams better for one reason or another... but there are undeniably more questions surrounding his ability. That's just how things work with workout warriors.

[mistertim]

Trent Williams played ONE year at LT and was very inconsistent at times. Very good RT, mediocre LT. The only reason he has shot up boards so far is because of the athleticism he displayed in workouts. To me that = alarm bells. I've watched him play and, while he can play well he also tends to get burned by speed rushers and outside-inside moves (saw both of those happen quite a few times). He has pretty agile feet but his footwork and technique leave a decent amount to be desired sometimes.

Just from watching him more closely in the "highlights/lowlights" vids it seems that his initial kick step against edge rushers, instead of going to the side to neutralize/mirror an outside rush just sort of tends to go backwards more, which is bad news and puts him at an immediate disadvantage. NFL edge rushers would have a field day with that.

I think if drafted he would definitely need to spend a decent amount of time at RT and work a bunch of his technique before he would be at all ready to man the left side. I'd rather have a LT prospect like Okung who is more polished and has great technique and is quite possibly a day one starter at a pretty high level.

As of right now, the guy is a workout warrior and excellent pure athlete but as a LT he is a project. You don't draft a project at #4 overall. Getting caught up in how fast a guy runs a 40 yard dash (especially OL...unless it is just a horrible time) and how good a guy looks running around in shorts as opposed to game tape, intangibles, coachability, maturity, etc is usually a recipe for disaster, especially if it is a very high draft pick.

EDIT: I also doubt Bradford would pick him that high if he were asked candidly, seeing as how it was Williams who completely whiffed on the blitzing linebacker that tackled Bradford and caused his initial shoulder injury.

[gutlead74]

I would understand if you like Williams better for one reason or another... but there are undeniably more questions surrounding his ability. That's just how things work with workout warriors.

we can agree to disagree

[gutlead74]

jumping out side to mirror a pass rusher is plain and simple poor technique, number one you never have both your feet off the ground.

Number two a lateral move in a pass set causes loss of balance

number three it puts you out of position for both the spped rush and the inside move

you kick slide backwards because your cutting off an angle that the pass rusher must take to get to the QB its how a less athletic person can stay in front of a more athletic person moving backward.

sliding outside is something that some hack trying to be a OL coach would say

[Enter Apotheosis]

we can agree to disagree

I disagree

[Chicken Fried]

I posted this in another thread, but Don Banks' new mock draft after the Brandon Marshall trade has us taking Trent Williams at #4 because he is a better fit in a ZBS, while Okung goes #5 to the Chiefs. It seems like Williams is making a late charge up the draft board in a similar way that Tyson Jackson did last year when the Chiefs picked him at #3.

[gutlead74]

Trent Williams

Bryan Bulaga

You can see Williams gets beat by Techique where Bulaga gets beat by feet both are really good tackles and i would be pleased with either bulaga is a RT

[gutlead74]

I posted this in another thread, but Don Banks' new mock draft after the Brandon Marshall trade has us taking Trent Williams at #4 because he is a better fit in a ZBS, while Okung goes #5 to the Chiefs. It seems like Williams is making a late charge up the draft board in a similar way that Tyson Jackson did last year when the Chiefs picked him at #3.

If you stay at 4 you take Okung, Williams is a good tackle Okung is better you trade back for williams (if possiable) and another tackle, we need two.

[mistertim]

jumping out side to mirror a pass rusher is plain and simple poor technique, number one you never have both your feet off the ground.

Number two a lateral move in a pass set causes loss of balance

number three it puts you out of position for both the spped rush and the inside move

you kick slide backwards because your cutting off an angle that the pass rusher must take to get to the QB its how a less athletic person can stay in front of a more athletic person moving backward.

sliding outside is something that some hack trying to be a OL coach would say

Wait, when did I say anything about "jumping out side"? Of course you never have both your feet off the the ground. What I'm talking about is how sometimes he tends to actually step backwards with his initial kick step as opposed to at the angle of his stance. Almost every time I saw him get beat by a speed rusher he seemed to do this. It gave him a terrible angle to try and mirror the guy and the rusher just blew past him.

Perhaps I didn't communicate what I meant well enough when I said that he doesn't kick "out". I didn't mean "out" as in "straight out to his side". I mean what I just explained; instead of kick stepping out at the angle of his stance when facing an obvious pass rush situation, he actually tended to step BACK with his first step...as in straight back. If you watch great LTs you'll see that they don't do that stuff on obvious passing downs; especially against guys who are edge/speed rushers. It is a bit hard to mirror and take a speed rusher out of the play when you just took a step straight back towards your QB and he has plenty of space to just go right around you if he is fast enough...and NFL edge rushers will be fast enough.

As far as getting beat by inside moves, it just seems like he couldn't adjust his feet properly after his initial step or contact with the defender. That or he sometimes lunged a bit and got himself off balance and, hence, couldn't recover. Like I said, very gifted athlete, very raw LT. I mean seriously...the guy has played 13 games at LT. 13. I don't care how athletic you are, there is no way you are going to be polished enough to come in and be a quick starter at LT in the NFL. Some guys can get by just with that athleticism at the college level, but once in the NFL they will be exposed.

Again, IMO he is a project. An excellent RT who, with time and plenty of work COULD become a legit NFL LT. But is that really a guy you want to draft a #4 overall?

[Dirk Diggler]

i disagree, williams is far more athletic than bulaga. bulaga is a very stiff athlete his hips and shoulders are unable to to move indepentantly of eachother and his feet are heavy. to play left tackle in the NFL you need to be a fluid athlete to deal with the freaks the NFL puts on the back side. while bulaga did play more LT than RT he is not the athlete Williams is. watch the combine watch the film they will both show you the same.

it did take williams a while to adapt to left side sets he was able to pull off the transition. :logo:

Here's a reliable scouting report.

OLT-OLG BRYAN BULAGA, #79 (Junior)

Notes: Parade All-American as a left tackle (did not allow a sack during his career at left tackle), though he also played defensive end, tight end and linebacker in high school. As a true freshman in 2007, appeared in seven games and started the final five at left guard. Missed six games due to a shoulder injury that required off- season surgery and sidelined him during ’08 spring practice. In the fall, started all 13 games at left tackle. Started all 10 games played in ’09 — missed three September contests while deal- ing with a thyroid condition.

Positives: Looks the part and has very good feet. Can shuffle, slide and mirror in pass protection. Excellent base and balance. Good agility to cut off the wide rush. Keeps his shoulders square and handles inside moves and counters. Rolls off the ball and drives defenders off the ball. Great finisher — plays nasty and seeks to bury defenders. Plays with pop and power in his hands — shoots his hands and punches with

authority. Controls defenders — does an out- standing job steering and sustaining. Good quickness to the second level to cut off lineback- ers. Has proven capable of dominating. Outstanding work ethic and character. Motivated to succeed. Versatile and has played inside and out- side. Footwork was very clean in drills at the Combine.

Negatives: Lacks great arm length for the left tackle position and will let defenders into his frame. Shows some upper-body stiffness. Could improve his anchor strength. Does not come off the ball low consistently — loses the leverage battle and can be bull-rushed. Does not have elite foot quickness. Was outleveraged by Michigan’s Brandon Graham. Looked raw early in the season, and thyroid condition must be evaluated.

Summary: Nearly the prototype from a measurables standpoint, save for less-than-exceptional arm length, and comes from a program with a rich tradition of producing well-coached, blue-collar offensive linemen. Solid technician who possesses the athletic ability and balance coveted in a blind-side protector along with the physicality and playing temperament highly desired on the right side. May wind up fitting at left guard but has the mental makeup, intelligence and toughness to develop into a Pro Bowl player. Versatility is a big plus, with potential to play any of four positions.

NFL projection: Top-10 pick.

[gutlead74]

Wait, when did I say anything about "jumping out side"? Of course you never have both your feet off the the ground. What I'm talking about is how sometimes he tends to actually step backwards with his initial kick step as opposed to at the angle of his stance. Almost every time I saw him get beat by a speed rusher he seemed to do this. It gave him a terrible angle to try and mirror the guy and the rusher just blew past him.

Perhaps I didn't communicate what I meant well enough when I said that he doesn't kick "out". I didn't mean "out" as in "straight out to his side". I mean what I just explained; instead of kick stepping out at the angle of his stance when facing an obvious pass rush situation, he actually tended to step BACK with his first step...as in straight back. If you watch great LTs you'll see that they don't do that stuff on obvious passing downs; especially against guys who are edge/speed rushers. It is a bit hard to mirror and take a speed rusher out of the play when you just took a step straight back towards your QB and he has plenty of space to just go right around you if he is fast enough...and NFL edge rushers will be fast enough.

As far as getting beat by inside moves, it just seems like he couldn't adjust his feet properly after his initial step or contact with the defender. That or he sometimes lunged a bit and got himself off balance and, hence, couldn't recover. Like I said, very gifted athlete, very raw LT. I mean seriously...the guy has played 13 games at LT. 13. I don't care how athletic you are, there is no way you are going to be polished enough to come in and be a quick starter at LT in the NFL. Some guys can get by just with that athleticism at the college level, but once in the NFL they will be exposed.

Again, IMO he is a project. An excellent RT who, with time and plenty of work COULD become a legit NFL LT. But is that really a guy you want to draft a #4 overall?

its a difference in how tackle technique is taught, from what i have seen when he gets beat by the speed rush its from not trusting his set he pauses his drop expecting the rusher to come underneath, a bad habit picked up playing RT for all those years. you were reffering to to a slide step set i see that now.

and no thats not who i pick at 4 at 4 i pick Okung my theory was to trade back if possiable and try to address both tackle positions. not likely the case sence we have to find a willing trade partner Okung is most likely the pick. I would just not want Bulaga as a LT but would take him in a heart beat as a RT

[jflow78]

My issue is that you guys are acting like there's only one LT in this draft. Not every LT HAS to be a future HoFer, or even a 6x Pro-Bowler, of course that's what we aim for, but I'd be happy with a guy that's going to be very solid.

I'm not saying we should settle, but I would think most of the OTs taken in the first round are going to be looked at as either LT starters, or LT projects that should earn a starting spot sometime during the season. We need a day one starter at LT, but I don't think there's only ONE guy that can do that in the whole draft.

EDIT: Sorry, I have to clarify, I think most of the guys in the first round can play LT, I don't know that the argument is whether or not one guy can or can't, rather than who you think will be better at the position. That's my point, you just don't draft a RT in the top 10, so I have a hard time with a scout projecting Bulaga or Williams as a top 10 pick, but a RT. That's a bust pick, IMO.

[gutlead74]

Negatives: Lacks great arm length for the left tackle position and will let defenders into his frame. Shows some upper-body stiffness. Could improve his anchor strength. Does not come off the ball low consistently — loses the leverage battle and can be bull-rushed. Does not have elite foot quickness. Was outleveraged by Michigan’s Brandon Graham. Looked raw early in the season, and thyroid condition must be evaluated.

this block is why he's not a LT, the positive block is why he will be a damn good RT

[Dirk Diggler]

Negatives: Lacks great arm length for the left tackle position and will let defenders into his frame. Shows some upper-body stiffness. Could improve his anchor strength. Does not come off the ball low consistently — loses the leverage battle and can be bull-rushed. Does not have elite foot quickness. Was outleveraged by Michigan’s Brandon Graham. Looked raw early in the season, and thyroid condition must be evaluated.

this block is why he's not a LT, the positive block is why he will be a damn good RT

Not every good LT has great arm length. Do you really think it's that simple? And Bulaga's arms aren't criminally short - they are just average. Know how much shorter his arms are than Williams? "1" inch. 1 freakin inch. So because of 1 inch he's not a left tackle and Williams is? Get a grip.

[gutlead74]

Not every good LT has great arm length. Do you really think it's that simple? And Bulaga's arms aren't criminally short - they are just average. Know how much shorter his arms are than Williams? "1" inch. 1 freakin inch. So because of 1 inch he's not a left tackle and Williams is? Get a grip.

upper-body stiffness

loses the leverage battle and can be bull-rushed

Does not have elite foot quickness.

Was outleveraged by Michigan’s Brandon Graham

apparently you stopped reading after 1 inch

while arm length is important it is much less important then foot quickness and stiff upper body.

you really think i am talking about arm length, WOW!

[Dirk Diggler]

upper-body stiffness

loses the leverage battle and can be bull-rushed

Does not have elite foot quickness.

Was outleveraged by Michigan’s Brandon Graham

Um, hey there. Guy. Did you just skip the positives and go straight to the negatives?

Has "some" upper body stiffness. Big whoop.

While he doesn't have "elite foot quickness" the same evaluator thought he had VERY GOOD FEET. Did you miss that? Chris Samuels feet weren't as good as BB's.

He was "out-leveraged" by a damn good player - a first rounder - who is 4 inches shorter - Brandon Graham. When he had just returned from a thyroid condition that kept him out for 3 weeks.

Ultimately, the same scout who listed out some nit-picky negatives (because he has to) felt that BB was still an excellent LT prospect. Oh yeah, Brian Bulaga just called and he wants to apologize for not ****ing diamonds every single play of this past season.

[gutlead74]

"Chris Samuels feet weren't as good as BB's."

now i know your on crack and no i didnt skip the positives thats why i covet him as a RT

[gutlead74]

Um, hey there. Guy. Did you just skip the positives and go straight to the negatives?

Has "some" upper body stiffness. Big whoop.

While he doesn't have "elite foot quickness" the same evaluator thought he had VERY GOOD FEET. Did you miss that? Chris Samuels feet weren't as good as BB's.

He was "out-leveraged" by a damn good player - a first rounder - who is 4 inches shorter - Brandon Graham. When he had just returned from a thyroid condition that kept him out for 3 weeks.

Ultimately, the same scout who listed out some nit-picky negatives (because he has to) felt that BB was still an excellent LT prospect. Oh yeah, Brian Bulaga just called and he wants to apologize for not ****ing diamonds every single play of this past season.

PS

are you related to Bulaga or just dating him?

[gutlead74]

Anyone see casserly's take on bulaga today on path to the draft?

Says bulaga isn't a LT thinks he may even be a guard. I think he could handle RT myself.

[Dirk Diggler]

BB's versatility is a huge plus as he could potentially play any position except Center at a very high level. That's a good thing. If for whatever reason, playing BB at RT allows us to get our best 5 lineman on the field, that's another check in the plus column. Perhaps he is only adequate at left tackle but turns out to be a great right tackle? Whatever. I'm not sure if Okung doesn't work out at LT that he'd be able to find a home somewhere else. He'd just be destined to be a mediocre LT. With BB, you know he's going to be a damn good player somewhere along the line. And we have question marks at all 5 positions right now IMO. BB is guaranteed to answer at least one of them - and if he can be a backup at the other 3 in a pinch? That's huge.