Interesting quote about Bulaga...

[VaSkinsNut]

Its a great feeling when the people running our team are proving to know more about football personnel decisions than "the people of the internet" I was in favor of trading down and selecting Bulaga, but any OLine picked would have made me happy.

When Vinny was in charge I would have actually had more faith in our selections panning out if they were chosen via the the consensus of "Who should we pick" polls here on ES during the draft. Nice to know we have some real pros to run things for a change.

[Going Commando]

My point isn't that Bulaga is going to be a bust. He could be a serviceable pro. He wasn't ready to step in and play LT. Trent has had a great camp, he seems to have that "mean streak" and has taken the LT job and run with it. It remains to be seen what happens with Okung. But so far so good.

Who did Trent take the LT job from though? Stephon Heyer is pretty bad. Chad Clifton is actually pretty good. They can't demote him to second string after paying to keep him, and they can't very well move him to guard. Trent's situation and Bulaga's are not comparable because Trent had no incumbent competition for the starting LT job. Do we really think he'd be starting at LT if Chris Samuels had stuck around?

[SKOALSKIN]

Who did Trent take the LT job from though? Stephon Heyer is pretty bad. Chad Clifton is actually pretty good. They can't demote him to second string after paying to keep him, and they can't very well move him to guard. Trent's situation and Bulaga's are not comparable because Trent had no incumbent competition for the starting LT job. Do we really think he'd be starting at LT if Chris Samuels had stuck around?

Clifton? Yeah, he's pretty good. I mean Rodgers was only sacked 50 times. If Bulaga was ready, they would have at least moved him to right tackle.

Also we have jammal Brown on the roster. If they didn't feel like trent could handle it, he would have been moved to the right.

Bottom line.... the reviews on trent are favorable. It was the right move.

[Art Monk Fan]

Who did Trent take the LT job from though? Stephon Heyer is pretty bad. Chad Clifton is actually pretty good. They can't demote him to second string after paying to keep him, and they can't very well move him to guard. Trent's situation and Bulaga's are not comparable because Trent had no incumbent competition for the starting LT job. Do we really think he'd be starting at LT if Chris Samuels had stuck around?

The fact that we traded for a pro-bowl left tackle in Jamal Brown and are converting him to right tackle should tell you everything you need to know about how TW is working out.

[Dirk Diggler]

SKOAL - you came on here to crow, yet in the process, you've exposed yourself as a jackass. You clearly know very little about the NFL.

Clifton? Yeah, he's pretty good. I mean Rodgers was only sacked 50 times.

1. Clifton is one player. He blocks one man. He's hardly responsible for sacks that other players allow.

2. Clifton also missed 4 games and parts of some others with injuries in the first half of the season. So did their RT Mark Tauscher, who was finally healthy by Game 9.

3. Once GB, had their tackles back... GB allowed a total of 13 sacks in the final 8 games against some VERY good defenses that rush the passer well: Dall, Pitt, Balt, Chic, SF.

4. Clifton allowed 3.5 sacks in the 12 games he started. Not Pro Bowl-caliber but pretty good considering how long Rodgers holds the ball trying to make big plays.

Bulaga was ready, they would have at least moved him to right tackle.

No, they have a pretty good one in Tauscher. Again, this is about getting their best 5 on the field. While Bulaga would be a slight upgrade at RT, it would leave a gaping hole at LG. With Suh, Tommie Harris, and the Williamses in Minny, that's kindof a big deal.

line.... the reviews on trent are favorable. It was the right move.

After 3 weeks, the signs are encouraging. But I wouldn't put him in Canton yet.

[HailB&G]

After 3 weeks, the signs are encouraging. But I wouldn't put him in Canton yet.

Neither would I. But I wouldn't put Bulaga there either. I wouldn't start him at tackle this year either. And neither would the Packers.

The fact is that Bulaga was drafted to a team with a LOUSY offensive line that is halfway to killing a good young quarterback, and he could not find a starting place at either tackle spot. I'm sure he is an improvement for them at guard. Anybody would be.

Over half the league passed on Bulaga. He looks like a long term solution at RT to me. Not LT. That's assuming he pans out.

[SKOALSKIN]

Dirk you really put forth the effort. Unfortunatley the packers line is not good. And the fact that bulaga can't seem to grab a tackle job speaks volumes about his development.

Were not here to debate the ability of Clifton or Tauscher. This thread is about how Shanahan picked the right guy. It also goes to show you that when you pick players based on fandom and emotion. You wind up with a tackle that turns into a guard at midnight.

So far you have been wrong on every count regarding the Silverback. May the football God's have mercy on your soul.

[Dirk Diggler]

Over half the league passed on Bulaga. He looks like a long term solution at RT to me. Not LT. That's assuming he pans out.

Even more teams passed on Aaron Rodgers. What's your point? Half the league passed on Clay Mathews and Michael Oher last year, and Chris Johnson lasted til the end of the First Round in 2008. And to go back a ways - half the league passed on Jerry Rice and Emmitt Smith.

I'm not saying Bulaga is going to Canton either. But the idea that you have to be a top 10 pick to have a future in the NFL is goofy. And again, this rush to judgement for any player who has been in the NFL for roughly 3 weeks is just silly.

[Dirk Diggler]

Dirk you really put forth the effort. Unfortunatley the packers line is not good. And the fact that bulaga can't seem to grab a tackle job speaks volumes about his development.

Good thing you weren't coaching the Ravens line when they drafted Jonathan Ogden back in 1996. He "couldn't grab" a tackle job either on a team that was coming off of a 5-11 season. And your continued inability to understand why Bulaga is playing guard speaks volumes about your football IQ.

[Going Commando]

Clifton? Yeah, he's pretty good. I mean Rodgers was only sacked 50 times. If Bulaga was ready, they would have at least moved him to right tackle.

Also we have jammal Brown on the roster. If they didn't feel like trent could handle it, he would have been moved to the right.

Bottom line.... the reviews on trent are favorable. It was the right move.

Clifton was a pro-bowler not too long ago and he was good when he played last year. Rodgers got sacked so much last season because:

1.) He was responsible for a league leading 13 sacks from holding onto the ball

2.) Clifton and Mark Tauscher both went down with injury last season and the depth was awful.

Green Bay's starting tackles were fine when they were healthy, and both are back for this season. Tauscher is a pretty well established player himself, and he's not really a candidate to move inside to guard. If the goal is to get your 5 best offensive linemen on the field at the same time and put them in positions that suit them, it makes sense to move Bulaga inside to guard until Clifton or Tauscher get hurt or retire. Your claim that Bulaga isn't ready to play OT in the NFL because he's not starting over Tauscher or Clifton is specious.

Also, Jammal Brown wasn't on the roster when we drafted Trent and stated unequivocally that he'd be starting at LT this year. It would have been poor form for Shanahan to change his mind on Trent after getting Jammal Brown. Not only that, we've absolutely got to play Trent at LT until he busts at the position and is forced to move to the right or inside. We can't spend a 4th overall pick and 60 million dollars on a RT. It's atrocious value from a team building perspective. That's what the Rams and Bengals have done, and we do not need to be copying their draft styles.

I agree that Trent looks like a better pick for us than Bryan Bulaga right now, but it's still far too early to make that kind of call with confidence. Bulaga looked like a really good fit in our offense too, he just didn't have the elite measurables Trent did. But Bulaga played a lot better at LT in a ZBS in college than Trent Williams did and their have been god knows how many draft busts who had awesome measurables but lots of crappy or underwhelming college tape. I think and hope Trent will be good, but we certainly aren't out of the woods with him yet.

[theboomking]

It sure is pretty contentious in this thread with regards to Bulaga. I'd be perfectly happy to have him on our roster, but not if it cost us Trent.

I agree with the poster who pointed out the significance of the fact that we traded for a pro-bowl LT and we moved him to the right to play Trent at LT.

[HailB&G]

When has Shanahan been worried about "form" - good, bad or otherwise?

If he thought J. Brown was the better option at LT, he'd be starting there. But he doesn't. He thinks T. Williams is better for the team at LT than the two-time (relatively young) pro-bowler at LT.

And this preseason is all that we have to look at. Based on the info and experience available, I don't even understand what the argument is here.

[SKOALSKIN]

Good thing you weren't coaching the Ravens line when they drafted Jonathan Ogden back in 1996. He "couldn't grab" a tackle job either on a team that was coming off of a 5-11 season. And your continued inability to understand why Bulaga is playing guard speaks volumes about your football IQ.

Ohh so were going to compare Bulaga to Ogden! Dirk you have been wrong on every front so far.

Just ackowledge that Trent is not a locker room cancer with slow feet. All will be forgiven.

[Dirk Diggler]

Just ackowledge that Trent is not a locker room cancer with slow feet. All will be forgiven.

Grow up and stop making up lies to try to argue a point. Show me where I said that. Good luck. Just because you've been exposed as a fool, doesn't mean you have to make **it up.

[SKOALSKIN]

Casserly is in the extreme minority if he doesn't think BB can play LT. If this were actually league consensus, then he wouldn't be talked about in the top 10. Now, if he meant to say that he thinks RT would be his best position - that would make more sense.

Regardless, some people in the media and quite a few posters on this board will be eating large amounts of crow when he goes in the top 9. That I can guarantee. Feel free to bump this thread.

I'd like to offer this as your first course. Crow soufle

[SKOALSKIN]

"And BB is far safer than Trent Williams, who is lazy, has a "diva attitude" and questionable commitment to the game. Is that a guy you want to hand $35 mill to? We've already gambled (and lost IMO) money on Haynesworth and Hall. No need to add another name."

This is your 2nd dish. Deep Fried Crow

[SKOALSKIN]

"Well, you can scratch Williams and Davis from that list. When do you see Shanahan collecting lineman with sloppy mid-sections and b***h t**s? MS despises fat guys. Sorry but that's what I see here:"

And for Desert... Crow Alamode

[SKOALSKIN]

Dirk you try to beat horrible facts to cover up the fact that you are a blind homer that can't see the big picture. And that's okay. You live in Texas. I'm here to tell you.......

It's not you're fault.

[Dirk Diggler]

SKOAL - you can't be this dense. I already said in post #94 that I was wrong about how teams viewed Bulaga. That's old news. And I also said that I hoped to be wrong about TW, which I am SO FAR. I hope to continue to be wrong about him. He's a skin, I am rooting just as hard for him as you are. From an athletic standpoint, he's a Shanahan type Olineman. Every other quality about him (poor work ethic, sloppy body, questionable desire, etc) said he's wasn't. Shanahan gambled he could reach the kid, swung for the fences and may have hit a home run. We'll see.

What I did not say was that he's a cancer and that he has slow feet. You won't find that because it didn't happen. You bumping things that I was wrong about (and have already admitted to) doesn't prove you right about the strawman argument you've now turned this into.

[bobzmuda]

Good thing you weren't coaching the Ravens line when they drafted Jonathan Ogden back in 1996. He "couldn't grab" a tackle job either on a team that was coming off of a 5-11 season. And your continued inability to understand why Bulaga is playing guard speaks volumes about your football IQ.

Look!

A "football IQ" insult!

[Outlaw Torn]

[Going Commando]

It sure is pretty contentious in this thread with regards to Bulaga. I'd be perfectly happy to have him on our roster, but not if it cost us Trent.

I agree with the poster who pointed out the significance of the fact that we traded for a pro-bowl LT and we moved him to the right to play Trent at LT.

I don't think that's as big a mandate for Trent as others have suggested. Jammal Brown isn't as good of a long term option at LT as Trent is--if Trent works out. But I doubt that the coaches actually believe Trent will be a better LT than Jammal Brown would be this season. I think it's more because:

1.) Trent is a better athlete

2.) Trent is a lot younger and not coming off a large injury

3.) Most importantly of all, Trent was a 4th overall pick with a 60 million dollar contract and we aren't going to get value from that selection playing him at RT. The plan was always to start Trent at LT after we drafted him. Why change that after trading for Jammal Brown since he's only got one year left on his deal and wants to be paid like a top left tackle?

BTW boomking, to figure out how we could have gotten more out of our 2010 draft, I've been wondering what we could have done to come off better had we kept our Donovan McNabb pick. Looking back on the class, so many of my favorite prospects when just before we would have picked at 37 and then there was a big run of overrated guys immediately after. So I've been wondering what moves we could have made to get good value from that pick. Say we had made the Jammal Brown trade with New Orleans before the draft and done this:

Scenario 1.)

Picked Trent Williams at four and made the Jahvid Best trade up instead of Detroit, or even we could have stood pat at 37 and taken Jimmy Clausen.

Scenario 2.)

- Draft Eric Berry, Ro McClain, or even Brandon Graham at four. Or Joe Haden if you liked him like I did (even though I don't think CB will be a huge need area).

-Trade down a few slots from 37 into the 40s and picked up an early 5th rounder (kind of what Oakland did).

- Then spend that new 2nd round pick on Charles Brown

- Spend the extra 5th on a player like Art Jones, Cam Thomas, Mitch Petrus, or Matt Tennant.

I like that second scenario a lot. Perhaps we couldn't have gotten Jammal Brown as cheaply as we did if New Orleans didn't get Charles Brown as a steal in the second, but then maybe he'd have been available for the same price if we had just went ahead and traded Andre Carter to them.

[theboomking]

I don't think that's as big a mandate for Trent as others have suggested. Jammal Brown isn't as good of a long term option at LT as Trent is--if Trent works out. But I doubt that the coaches actually believe Trent will be a better LT than Jammal Brown would be this season. I think it's more because:

1.) Trent is a better athlete

2.) Trent is a lot younger and not coming off a large injury

3.) Most importantly of all, Trent was a 4th overall pick with a 60 million dollar contract and we aren't going to get value from that selection playing him at RT. The plan was always to start Trent at LT after we drafted him. Why change that after trading for Jammal Brown since he's only got one year left on his deal and wants to be paid like a top left tackle?

I'm not sure the above line of thinking is accurate. When we drafted Trent Williams we basically had nobody at LT. Of course we would plan to play Trent at LT. By the time we traded for Brown however, the Shannahans had already seen Trent on the field for OTA's, and I'm sure were well aware of what kind of talent he had. I really think that if Brown looked better than Trent, he would be our starting LT. By every single report we've heard thus far however, from coaches, players, and the media, based on play on the field during training camp, and against the Bills,Trent Williams has been far and away the best offensive lineman on the roster.

BTW boomking, to figure out how we could have gotten more out of our 2010 draft, I've been wondering what we could have done to come off better had we kept our Donovan McNabb pick. Looking back on the class, so many of my favorite prospects when just before we would have picked at 37 and then there was a big run of overrated guys immediately after. So I've been wondering what moves we could have made to get good value from that pick. Say we had made the Jammal Brown trade with New Orleans before the draft and done this:

Scenario 1.)

Picked Trent Williams at four and made the Jahvid Best trade up instead of Detroit, or even we could have stood pat at 37 and taken Jimmy Clausen.

Scenario 2.)

- Draft Eric Berry, Ro McClain, or even Brandon Graham at four. Or Joe Haden if you liked him like I did (even though I don't think CB will be a huge need area).

-Trade down a few slots from 37 into the 40s and picked up an early 5th rounder (kind of what Oakland did).

- Then spend that new 2nd round pick on Charles Brown

- Spend the extra 5th on a player like Art Jones, Cam Thomas, Mitch Petrus, or Matt Tennant.

I like that second scenario a lot. Perhaps we couldn't have gotten Jammal Brown as cheaply as we did if New Orleans didn't get Charles Brown as a steal in the second, but then maybe he'd have been available for the same price if we had just went ahead and traded Andre Carter to them.

Let me start by saying that I really like what the FO actually did in obtaining a franchise LT in the draft and a franchis caliber QB and starting caliber tackle for a 2010 2nd, and a 2011 3rd and 4th.

If I had to keep the 37th pick however, given how Kemoeatu has looked thus far, and the value of having a true nose in a 3-4, I probably would have drafted Terrence Cody.

I did also really like Charles Brown however, and if his back turns out to be okay, I think he could be the third best tackle in the class, behind only Okung and Trent Williams. I watched a ton of USC games last year, and Brown looked quick, smooth and polished in pass protection and like he would do fine as a run blocker in a zone scheme. His back however gives me enough pause that I'd still have to go with Cody.

Now if we were talking about moving up in the draft, back into the first, there are three options I'd target. I really liked Kyle Wilson, and I think he is going to be a stud. The schematic fit is perfect for him with the NYJ, but I also think he would have been very good here, and was a great value where he was picked.

I also really liked Jahvid Best, and think he will be a better pro than Spiller. I'd be less inclined to trade up for him however giving the mileage the Shannahans have historically gotten from later round picks.

The crown jewel of my fantasy 2010 trade back into the 1st plan would be Brandon Graham. I'm sure you remember how much I liked him going into the draft. By all reports, Graham has been killing it thus far with the Eagles. I really think he would have been a natural at OLB across from Orakpo. He is a very good pass rusher, but is also great at playing the run behind the LOS, has a great motor, is a very high character guy, and was a great leader at Michigan. I'm not happy that Graham is with the Eagles, where we'll have to face him twice a year, but at least I'll get to watch his career.

http://www.profootballweekly.com/2010/08/15/eagles-rookie-graham-exceeding-expectations

• The Eagles are tickled with what they have seen from rookie DE Brandon Graham so far. Graham showed some pressure in the team's preseason debut but a few times just missed on notching sacks. He acknowledged that he overran the Jaguars' quarterbacks a few times and needed to use his countermoves more. Yet, the expectations for Graham remain sky-high, and the first-round pick has been absolutely wrecking practice on a consistent basis, giving the offensive linemen fits. The team can't hold him back much longer, and he's expected to earn a starting spot at some point this season.