Hitnskins Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 Has Champ lost his mind? After reading that article in the W.T. today, that's the conclusion that I have come to. I for one can't believe that Champ actually thinks that he's the best, or even one of the top 3 players in the league........I've been a Redskins fan since birth, and I'm a huge Champ Bailey fan, but it makes me laugh when I hear that..........to me, he's not even the best player on the team. For him to compare himself to Ray Lewis, is a joke...........Ray Lewis makes an impact in every single game he plays in. Champ gets beat on a weekly basis, and I do not believe that teams throw or stay away from Champs side of the field. They may on occasion, but I've seen him get beat too many times to think otherwise. I wish Snyder would allow Champ to go out and test the market, and let him find out what he's really worth.......I think he may be very surprised what his actual value is. I just can't see any team giving him a 20 million dollar signing bonus, which it sounds like he's going to ask for. I'm sure that his agent has been filling his head with all kinds of crap about how good he is, and how he's been underpaid, and how he's the best in the league......but, he's not even the leader of his own defense.......and acts like he doesn't want or know how to be either. Champ sounds mighty greedy, and all about himself.........he needs to just shut and play. To me, the money that he wants, could be spent a lot more wisely on a new defensive line, which would go a lot further in making this team better, compared to one cornerback. PLUS............everyone keeps saying that he's a three or four time cornerback, but yet everyone seems to forget that he wouldn't even have been in two of those probowls, if it weren't for other players picked ahead of him getting hurt, and having to forfeit there spots.........he was an alternate at least two years. How do you pay someone the highest salary on defense, that's not the leader of that unit?????????????? Champ is good.........but he's not the best or maybe not even one of the top 10 best players in the league..........and he's fooling himself, and anyone else on this board that thinks he is. I'd put the franchise tag on him, let him test the free agent waters, and see exactly what type of contract offer he can get........if he's really so good, then I'm sure another team wouldn't mind losing two first round draft picks to get a player as good as Champ says he is.........and I'd gladly take those two picks and use one on a defensive lineman, and another on a cornerback to replace Mr. Bailey............then with all the money I will have saved from not giving Mr. Potato Head(Champ) that big signing bonus...............I would sign a couple more free agents to try and beef up the line, and another goood corner for insurance. To me, Champ has lost his dang mind.............there is no "I" in team..........and as far as I'm concerned there doesn't have to be a "Champ" on this team either...........no one player is bigger than the team..........which Champ doesn't seem to understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins24 Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 :mad: You owe a couple of brain cells that I lost reading this ridiculous post 1. Not anywhere did Baily say he was the best player in the league. Best corner, yeah. 2. Not anywhere did Baily compare himself to Ray Lewis. That was the Times comparing salaries. Newsflash - Ray Lewis is a MLB Champ is a CB. 3. "I wish Snyder would allow Champ to go out and test the market, and let him find out what he's really worth.......I think he may be very surprised what his actual value is." You don't get it do you... His value is more than you seem to realize 4. "everyone keeps saying that he's a three or four time cornerback, but yet everyone seems to forget that he wouldn't even have been in two of those probowls, if it weren't for other players picked ahead of him getting hurt, and having to forfeit there spots.........he was an alternate at least two years." :thud: 5. "Champ is good.........but he's not the best or maybe not even one of the top 10 best players in the league..........and he's fooling himself, and anyone else on this board that thinks he is." He's also fooling all the scouts, all the experts, and just about every single person who has basic knowledge of football. Except you of course. Our pass D was #5 last year. You're telling me that was all Smoot's doing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yomar Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 Last year Champ shut down Marvin Harrison in the midst of one of the greatest seasons ever by a WR. Terrell Owens had to run a reverse to make an impact. David Boston had to go to Smoot's side of the field to make a play. He isn't just good, he is the best Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sashae Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 ...and Champ had a slightly down year last year as well. I'm very curious to see how all of our D players do this year after FINALLY staying in the same system 2 years in a row... -s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Mike Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 I understand your concern about his apparent greed. many of us have voiced the very same concern. But I don't think you realize just how good he really is. Every CB gets burned now and then, Deon did, Darrell did, they all do. You don't make it to 3 consecutive Pro Bowls, alternate or not without being one of the top three CBs in the league. Right now he is getting paid less than the #10 guy. You or I would want more money too. As for letting him test the waters, with all due respect, ARE YOU INSAINE? :laugh: Someone damn sure would pay him what he wants and it would not take long for it to happen. Shutdown corners don't exactly grow on trees you know. And in a league that is going more and more to a passing game, if you cant field at least two great, and at least one other very good CB you are REALLY going to get burned. As for letting him go and investing the money in a pass rushing D line, remember that D lines like Tampa's dont grow on trees either. That means you still have to send a LB or two, and a safety moves up to fill his slot leaving the CB exposed. There are at least a dozen QBs in the league who would love to see that every week against lesser CBs. The first thing any defense is concerned about is taking away the big plays and forcing the opponent into making a long drive to score. It allows more opportunitys for the ofense to make mistakes and allows more opportunitys for the defense to make plays. Then you can start shortening the range of what you consider a big play by beefing up your run D and applying more pressure with the pass rush. Right now we have everything in place to install the last piece of the puzzle, youth, beef, and pass rush to our D line next year through the draft. This D can be really great at that point. Removing champ from the mix would be like pulling one leg out from under the table it all rests on. So relax dude. Let champ make his money. He's worked butt off his entire life to get it and he deserves it. All of this talk is just part of the negotiaing proccess. You start off shooting for the sun, moon and stars and you may just get the moon. If you start with the moon you will be lucky to get a cloud. Peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty dread Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 sorry but Champ is easily a top 3 corner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitnskins Posted August 6, 2003 Author Share Posted August 6, 2003 You guys are fooling yourselves.......do you really think that Champ is the best player on our Defense????? He's not even the leader of our defense? You guys are looking at Champ through some seriously tainted Redskin colored goggles!!!!!!!!!!! And Champ does say that he thinks he one of the two or three defensive players in the league.........not just at the cornerback position there Skins24........and therefore he should be paid like one of the two or three best players......ie...Ray Lewis. My point is, he doesn't make the same impact as a Ray Lewis, therefore he shouldn't be paid like one.............the highest paid corner in the league got a 14.2 million signing bonus, so I'll be very interested to see what MR. GREEDY asks for with his contract.........then we'll see exactly where Mr. Bailey ranks himself. He's lucky that I'm not the owner..............I'd take my money and strap it around Lavars neck........and let that man lead my defense to the Super Bowl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachreiter Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 champ is 1 of the best CB's in the nfl...even if somehow he could have compared himself to the rest of the nfl which is not the case here you cant do that because youve got too many great players in too many different positions...champ knows that and wouldnt throw that out there.champ is talked about everywhere except dolemite's eyes as 1 of the best CB's in the nfl...through me 3 names BETTER than him in as long of a period of time as him....champ has been consistanly since hes been in the nfl some1 you dont want to throw to...ask manning and garcia and mcnabb...they never choose to throw it his way...only if they HAVE to...if we want to win...we NEED champ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 Champ leads by example. Being a vocal leader is different. sometimes you can be both........Champ is a "shut up and play guy" He is the best player on our D right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big z Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 he's under contract for this year. we could really screw him by giving him the franchise tag, keeping him for 1 more year at about 7 million, or getting a couple draft picks for him from another team. Someone tell Smooty it's time to step-up. Is Chris McCallister of the Ravens playing out the 1 year franchise tag or did he get a new contract? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen-like Todd Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 Meanwhile, you guys are glossing over the most significant point in that post, which was the title. Texas can't afford to put a well rounded team on the field because A-Rod is costing them so much damn money. Yes, Champ is the bomb. Probably the best corner in the league (in reality, the top 3 or 4 guys are all bunched rather closely together). Personally, I want to resign him. I also think he wants too much money, and part of me wonders what added flexibility the Redskins would have down the road were they to let him go. They could easily extend Smoot (who, as Art has suggested, is really rather talented, and with his newly buff frame, will probably make a significant impact over the next two seasons), Gardner, and stil have more future cap flexibility down the road than we otherwise would, including the ability to go find defensive linemen. The post isnt as stupid as most of you are making it out to be. Raise your hand if you think we'll have the ability to resign Smoot if we resign Champ. Now whether or not we SHOULD resign Smoot is up for debate, but I for one think we're going to be ****ing and moaning in two years when he goes to another team. Add to that, as bigzak mentioned, the possibility of snagging 2 first rounders in exchange for the aforementioned cap flexibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opiate-Zeo Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 The reason you never see him make that much of an impact is because he's covering his receiver so well that QB's are afraid to throw to his side. He *IS* the best cover corner in the league. I believe he is going to get a 15mil signing bonus and every penny is worth it. If I had to choose between Lavar and Champ, I would choose Champ 10 out of 10 times. The leader of our defense and the best player are two different things. Champ is the best player on our defense. Living in PA I have alot of friends who like different teams and almost all of them, including the Philly fans (who have 2 awesome corners on thier team) say that Champ is the best in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Mike Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 Dolemite Let me recomend a book to you. It's called "Winning Defense" by hall of fame coach Bud Wilkenson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins24 Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 Originally posted by Dolemite You guys are fooling yourselves.......do you really think that Champ is the best player on our Defense????? He's not even the leader of our defense? You guys are looking at Champ through some seriously tainted Redskin colored goggles!!!!!!!!!!! Stephen Davis was the best player on our offense the last couple of years, yet he wasn't the leader. Ok, let's say we were looking at Champ through "Redskin colored goggles"? What about the rest of the NFL who believes the same thing? What are they seeing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen-like Todd Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 Originally posted by Skins24 Stephen Davis was the best player on our offense the last couple of years, yet he wasn't the leader. Ok, let's say we were looking at Champ through "Redskin colored goggles"? What about the rest of the NFL who believes the same thing? What are they seeing? And look what happened to Stephen Davis..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yomar Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 there is a large gap between ARod and the next highest paid player in baseball, comparing Champ's potential salary impact to that of ARod's on the Rangers isn't exactly apropos. Would signing Champ limit the number of other superstars we could potentially sign? Yes. Would he singlehandedly cripple the cap? Not even close, if you draft an elite premium player in the prime of his career, you sign him, it doesn't happen very often Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Mike Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 Cranky First: Read the last paragraph of my post above. It's all about negotiation. Second: Smoot MAY step up to the level of champ, he hasn't done it yet and untill he does, it's all just talk. Third: Who is going to replace Smoot as the #2 guy? No one on this team, that's for sure. No matter how you cut it this team is better off with Champ then without him. End of story. :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiefhogskin48 Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 Dolemite is 100% correct here, IMO. I don't see what everyone is getting so riled up about. We'd love to have him, but he should not be paid like a top 3 player in this league. Why? Because, quite frankly, he ISN'T a top 3 player. I personally think Champ has an eye on leaving this team for a simple reason--- he wants desperately to play offense, and it won't happen here. Another team might lure him away with a tepid promise of such a role, and for players in this league, the grass is, more often than not, always greener. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins24 Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 Originally posted by CrankyTodd And look what happened to Stephen Davis..... ? I mentioned Stephen Davis to show that just because you're the best doesn't mean you have to be the leader also.... We'd love to have him, but he should not be paid like a top 3 player in this league. Why? Because, quite frankly, he ISN'T a top 3 player. I agree, he shouldn't be paid like a top 3 player. That would mean a $100 mil contract. But he should be paid like a top 3 corner...because he is. Whether we can afford to do that or not, I don't know. I hope we can. Our D is much mcuh better with him than without him. Despite Dole's best efforts, there's no way of disputing that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen-like Todd Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 I mentioned Stephen Davis to show that just because you're the best doesn't mean you have to be the leader also.... And I mentioned him to show that the best player on the team isnt untouchable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Mike Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 Originally posted by CrankyTodd And I mentioned him to show that the best player on the team isnt untouchable. What it shows is that the best player on a horible unit isnt untouchable. The entire unit needed re-building and Davis simply was not part of the plan. He was also looking at the downside of his career. Champ, on the other hand is the foundation of what could be a top three defense with a few key additions on the line and has maybe his best years ahead of him. There is no comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen-like Todd Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 There's always a comparison. NO player on a football team is untouchable. Not even remotely. This isn't basketball. Joe Montana wasn't untouchable, and neither is Champ. Regardless of his youth. There isn't a single player in the entire NFL who is untouchable. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 Originally posted by chiefhogskin48 Dolemite is 100% correct here, IMO. I don't see what everyone is getting so riled up about. We'd love to have him, but he should not be paid like a top 3 player in this league. Why? Because, quite frankly, he ISN'T a top 3 player. I personally think Champ has an eye on leaving this team for a simple reason--- he wants desperately to play offense, and it won't happen here. Another team might lure him away with a tepid promise of such a role, and for players in this league, the grass is, more often than not, always greener. I agree here. What has always bothered me about Champ is that he is always talking about leaving rather than just saying something like "I hope I'm always a Redskin" or some other crap. I really do think some other team could offer him the opportunity to play offense and defense and he may jump at that. I'd just have more respect for him if he shut up, played football and let his agent work on a deal. I honestly feel like if a deal doesn't get done, it won't be Snyder's fault, it will be because Champ wanted to leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cskin Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 Champ is a "shut up and play guy" Yes... he should follow his own example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yomar Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 sometimes you don't know how good you had it until its gone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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