Washington Times: Study: Mississippi is 'most religious' state (compares states)

[mardi gras skin]

Must be true - I hear they're always burning crosses in Mississippi....

When my dad got stationed to Keesler AFB while I was in high school I was horrified. Could I get in to a decent college with a Mississippi high school diploma? Did they even wear shoes?

Turns out, Mississippi was pretty cool. I got kind of angry at the Mississippi stereotype. Why was there such a big effort to put impose a negative stereotype on the state?

Then I spent a couple of days in the Delta, several hours north. The delta is the land that time forgot. Kudzu, old money, old bigots, and clear racial boundaries. It was everything I feared.

Thank God I lived in the other Mississippi.

[mistertim]

Isn't Mississippi the least educated state too? Just saying.

Oops, second from the bottom. My bad.

http://www.statemaster.com/graph/edu_bes_edu_ind-education-best-educated-index

It is last in the % of people who have completed high school and third to last in % of people with Bachelors degrees.

[WVUforREDSKINS]

Average IQ by state

http://www.top50states.com/average-iq-score.html

1. MASSACHUSETTS........................................104.3

2. NEW HAMPSHIRE..........................................104.2

3. NORTH DAKOTA............................................103.8

4. VERMONT....................................................103.8

5. MINNESOTA.................................................103.7

6. MONTANA....................................................103.4

7. MAINE.........................................................103.4

8. IOWA..........................................................103.2

9. CONNECTICUT...............................................103.1

10. WISCONSIN.................................................102.9

11. KANSAS......................................................102.8

12. SOUTH DAKOTA............................................102.8

13. NEW JERSEY................................................102.8

14. WYOMING....................................................102.4

15. NEBRASKA....................................................102.3

16. WASHINGTON................................................101.9

17. VIRGINIA......................................................101.9

18. OHIO...........................................................101.8

19. INDIANA.......................................................101.7

20. COLORADO....................................................101.6

21. PENNSYLVANIA..............................................101.5

22. IDAHO..........................................................101.4

23. OREGON.......................................................101.2

24. UTAH...........................................................101.1

25. MISSOURI......................................................101.0

26. NEW YORK.....................................................100.7

27. MICHIGAN......................................................100.5

28. DELAWARE.....................................................100.4

29. NORTH CAROLINA.............................................100.2

30. TEXAS...........................................................100.0

31. ILLINOIS..........................................................99.9

32. MARYLAND.......................................................99.7

33. RHODE ISLAND..................................................99.5

34. KENTUCKY........................................................99.4

35. OKLAHOMA.......................................................99.3

36. ALASKA............................................................99.0

37. WEST VIRGINIA..................................................98.7

38. SOUTH CAROLINA...............................................98.4

39. FLORIDA...........................................................98.4

40. GEORGIA...........................................................98.0

41. TENNESSEE.......................................................97.7

42. ARKANSAS.........................................................97.5

43. ARIZONA...........................................................97.4

44. NEVADA............................................................96.5

45. ALABAMA...........................................................95.7

46. NEW MEXICO......................................................95.7

47. HAWAII..............................................................95.6

48. CALIFORNIA........................................................95.5

49. LOUISIANA..........................................................95.3

50. MISSISSIPPI........................................................94.2

Often, I have wondered what the correllation between IQ and being religious is. This may not mean anything at all, as some of the most religous people I know are also some of the smartest (Techboy is a good example of this), but overall and in general..

[mardi gras skin]

I have wondered what the correllation between IQ and being religious is.

I'd think it more likely that there's a correlation between low IQ and adherence to social norms. In a culture where it takes less intellectual effort to be an atheist, I would expect the theists to be more intelligent than the atheists. In our culture, the theists will be saddled with the dummies.

[WVUforREDSKINS]

I'd think it more likely that there's a correlation between low IQ and adherence to social norms. In a culture where it takes less intellectual effort to be an atheist, I would expect the theists to be more intelligent than the atheists. In our culture, the theists will be saddled with the dummies.

Well, according to the article, the majority of the most religious states are near the bottom of the bell curve while the least religious are near the top of the IQ bell curve. Could be a coincidence, but interesting to me to say the least.

[alexey]

And the most generous.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-11-20-state-giving_x.htm?loc=interstitialskip

So poor people are more religious, less educated, and more generous than rich people. Sounds about right to me.

This is based on itemized charitable contributions, which count donations to churches... So this is really not surprising.

There is probably no a way to determine how much this reflects generosity and how much this reflects susceptibility to scammers. However, low IQ and education levels seem to suggest a healthy dose of the latter.

[mardi gras skin]

Well, according to the article, the majority of the most religious states are near the bottom of the bell curve while the least religious are near the top of the IQ bell curve. Could be a coincidence, but interesting to me to say the least.

Right. That makes sense in a country as theistic as ours. If this were a predominately atheistic country, I would expect the less educated areas of the country to tend atheistic.

Great thinkers seem to fall all over the theistic/atheistic scale. I haven't observed a correlation between intelligent and either theistic or atheistic. But the lazy thinkers fall out overwhelmingly on the side of conventional wisdom. So, the lower the IQ of a given population, the greater the tendency toward the norm. In our country, that's theism.

edit: This means that, when I encounter an atheist, I think it more likely that the person is a critical thinker than when I encounter a theist. Evidence on this message board to the contrary.

[twa]

Well, according to the article, the majority of the most religious states are near the bottom of the bell curve while the least religious are near the top of the IQ bell curve. Could be a coincidence, but interesting to me to say the least.

Could be related to race as well,but could be coincidence there too.

Could just be we measure IQ inefficiently as well as define religious broadly...or perhaps not broadly enough.

Speculation is fun.

[alexey]

Right. I would expect that in a country as theistic as ours. If this were a predominately atheistic country, I would expect the less educated areas of the country to tend atheistic.

Historically, great thinkers fall all over the theistic/atheistic scale. There doesn't seem to be a correlation between intelligent and either theistic or atheistic. But the lazy thinkers fall out on the side of conventional wisdom. So, the lower the IQ of a given population, the greater the tendency toward the norm. In our country, that's theism.

Historically great thinkers have found themselves in a strongly theistic environment. They may or may not have decided to reject theism. However, I doubt you will find many (or any, for that matter) great thinkers that came from an atheistic environment but decided to accept theism.

[mardi gras skin]

This is based on itemized charitable contributions, which count donations to churches... So this is really not surprising.

True.

There is probably no a way to determine how much this reflects generosity and how much this reflects susceptibility to scammers. However, low IQ and education levels seem to suggest a healthy dose of the latter.

Not true. The vast majority of religious institutions are not scams. You think Katrina was bad? Imagine what it would have been like without religious charities. They were the lifeblood for the entire gulf coast. The government may have been flat footed in their response but the religious organizations delivered a superhuman effort.

And the majority of that aide was contributed by poor religious people with low IQ's.

[mardi gras skin]

Historically great thinkers have found themselves in a strongly theistic environment. They may or may not have decided to reject theism. However, I doubt you will find many (or any, for that matter) great thinkers that came from an atheistic environment but decided to accept theism.

Understand, the great early Christian thinkers were classified as atheists. Their worldview was outside the accepted theistic boundaries. Much the same way that some people are considered "spiritual" now without being considered theistic.

So looking back on all those great thinkers from our current view of theism isn't helpful.

[alexey]

Not true. The vast majority of religious institutions are not scams. You think Katrina was bad? Imagine what it would have been like without religious charities. They were the lifeblood for the entire gulf coast. The government may have been flat footed in their response but the religious organizations delivered a superhuman effort.

And the majority of that aide was contributed by poor religious people with low IQ's.

I see your point.

I wonder how do contributions to various churches break down in terms of what goes where, and how does that compare to other non-profits in terms of value for the philanthropic dollar? It's an interesting topic that I have never looked into.

However, I still do not think that looking at itemized charitable contributions is a good way to determine generosity.

Here is another angle - people in some states may have decided to pay higher taxes, for example, to provide some charitable services through their government.

[mardi gras skin]

I see your point.

I wonder how do contributions to various churches break down in terms of what goes where, and how does that compare to other non-profits in terms of value for the philanthropic dollar? It's an interesting topic that I have never looked into.

Well, gosh, since you asked so nice.

Every church I've been a part of, 10% of the budget goes to missions outside of the church. For instance, our church contributes a chunk of our budget to an organization that trains emergency relief workers for events like Katrina. We give to Red Del Camino, an organization doing economic and social justice work throughout Latin America. (These guys are amazing...if you're looking for a tax write off, throw it to them http://lareddelcamino.net/en/ ). Stuff like that.

The other 90% goes to missions we are involved in. The vast majority of that goes to staff. Our staff offers free counseling, including grief, financial and marriage counseling. We're responsible for connecting more serious needs with area resources. We help distribute tens of thousands of dollars to crisis events like an abused mom who is getting her family to safety or supplementing the mortgage for a month while helping a person get a new job. We coordinate volunteer groups to places like inner city Baltimore, Mississippi Gulf Coast, and the Dominican Republic to help with specific projects. All kinds of stuff.

Those things soak up about 75% of our staff's time. The rest of our time is spent preparing for worship services and training leadership in areas that's not specifically philanthropic in nature. Although, we believe that the development of the human spirit is a philanthropic endeavor in itself. In our case, that involves teaching disciples to follow Jesus.

[AsburySkinsFan]

Isn't Mississippi the least educated state too? Just saying.

Oops, second from the bottom. My bad.

http://www.statemaster.com/graph/edu_bes_edu_ind-education-best-educated-index

Education and economics has a lot to do with it as well. Hence why the great state of Mississippi still thinks Jesus has blonde hair and blue eyes.

Wow, two posts in a row calling the religious uneducated, way to go guys, I was really hoping you'd get a third in order to pull off the trifecta, maybe next time fellas. :doh:

[AsburySkinsFan]

Kind of like how Western Culture has moved from Enlightenment to Modernism to Postmodernism and beyond?

The only problem with that is that Post Modernity doesn't cast off everything Modernism or the Enlightenment brought to the table, instead it is probably better understood as each one being a corrective to the previous one using a lot of the same frame work but making critical changes that cause systemic changes throughout each system.

As for the religious going away, don't count on it. I know there are a very few minority who are giddy at the prospect of the ignorant uneducated religious majority disappearing but that just isn't going to happen. When all other things in this world have failed the constant across time has been faith, that's not going away because of colleges, or good economies, because we all come to the point where the scientific answers don't satisfy and where the money no longer brings the comfort we thought it would, and where we are faced with our own mortality and wonder about the things that can't be explained, or are faced down by the imprint of God in the things that are explained.

There will always be a minority who do not believe in any particular faith, but the religious majority isn't going anywhere.

[AsburySkinsFan]

Well, according to the article, the majority of the most religious states are near the bottom of the bell curve while the least religious are near the top of the IQ bell curve. Could be a coincidence, but interesting to me to say the least.

Its funny to me to see the link being drawn so as if to say "see the dummies have faith", when it could very easily be drawn to say "see the haughty think they have no need for God."

Habakkuk 2:4 Look at the proud! Their spirit is not right in them, but the righteous live by their faith.

BTW, I have my High School diploma, my Bachelors of Arts, and my Masters degree, apparently 22 years of education didn't work on me. For that matter 12 of those years were all spent in East Coast educational institutions, with 8 of them in New England.

Understand, the great early Christian thinkers were classified as atheists. Their worldview was outside the accepted theistic boundaries. Much the same way that some people are considered "spiritual" now without being considered theistic.

Ok you gave your Achilles heel away in your first sentence; were classified as atheists, you wrote it in the passive which suggests that someone else was doing the classification of these "great early Christian thinkers", what it does not say nor indicate is how these "great early Christian thinkers" would have classified themselves, many of whom (Darwin included) were people of faith. Heck Darwin is even buried in Westminster Abbey mere feet from Sir Isaac Newton, they don't do that for atheists.

(and in case some were going to try and make the argument about Darwin being an agnostic, keep in mind that agnostic does not equal atheist, it instead means that they "don't know", and is far from being a wholly descriptive term for a single set of beliefs.)

[AsburySkinsFan]

I wonder how do contributions to various churches break down in terms of what goes where, and how does that compare to other non-profits in terms of value for the philanthropic dollar? It's an interesting topic that I have never looked into.

If indeed you decide to look into it, it would do you well to bear one major fact in mind. With churches (usually small individual organizations) the majority of the giving is normally going to be for staff which will skew the percentages. A larger organization has the luxury of having a wider area of resources to draw upon for giving, which means that the percentage of staff payroll is smaller in their budgets.

For instance: many churches have a staff of 1 or 2 (pastor, secretary) full time with a smattering of part time staff (janitorial, organist, pianist, youth leader), a church with that level of staff is usually running around 100-125 in average worship attendance, as such it is the giving of that 100-125 people (about 41 giving units 3 persons per) that is supporting the budget of the church. These numbers increase nearly exponentially; take a charitable (non-church) organization that has a staff of 50, all of the sudden their pool of resources is much wider most likely drawing on hundreds of thousands if not millions of giving units thus the percentage of their budget devoted to staff is much smaller than the average local church.

As a United Methodist church in Kentucky we give 16% of our offerings in apportionments to the Kentucky Annual Conference of United Methodists, you can see the break down of our Annual Conference budget here;

http://ky.brickriver.com/files/oFiles_Library_XZXLCZ/2009_Budget_Brochure_-_Legal_Size_UDDGWWR5.pdf

Another thing that anyone looking into this also needs to bear in mind is the fact that organizations like the Red Cross in many situations rely upon the local churches in order to provide the services they offer; blood donation, Red Cross sheltering, disaster relief and management many times use the volunteered facilities in order to bring care to an area, as such they are able to keep their costs down because they don't have to maintain staff and or facilities in every area where they are able to bring aid, those facilities are instead in many cases maintained by local organizations.

[Predicto]

Average IQ by state

http://www.top50states.com/average-iq-score.html

Measuring IQ is total bullcrap. But claiming to know the average IQ of entire states is even more bullcrap.

[twa]

Measuring IQ is total bullcrap. But claiming to know the average IQ of entire states is even more bullcrap.

47. CALIFORNIA ...Ouch

But at least ya'll barely beat out Ole Miss.:evilg:

I do agree though it is foolishness and subject to inexact formulas

[Predicto]

47. CALIFORNIA ...Ouch

But at least ya'll barely beat out Ole Miss.:evilg:

I do agree though it is foolishness and subject to inexact formulas

LOL. Any list that doesn't have Texas dead last is a complete scam.

[twa]

LOL. Any list that doesn't have Texas dead last is a complete scam.

Well since I spend my time on a out of state message board it appears I agree somewhat...But then so do you.

[WVUforREDSKINS]

Its funny to me to see the link being drawn so as if to say "see the dummies have faith", when it could very easily be drawn to say "see the haughty think they have no need for God."

Habakkuk 2:4 Look at the proud! Their spirit is not right in them, but the righteous live by their faith.

BTW, I have my High School diploma, my Bachelors of Arts, and my Masters degree, apparently 22 years of education didn't work on me. For that matter 12 of those years were all spent in East Coast educational institutions, with 8 of them in New England.

Special someone is special. Good for you. But seriously, facts are facts and 1+1=7

[WVUforREDSKINS]

Measuring IQ is total bullcrap. But claiming to know the average IQ of entire states is even more bullcrap.

IQ doesn't mean **** in real life...I agree with that if that is what you were trying to say. However, it is the best way of measuring a persons capability. I have seen all sides of the bell curve and often seen people with much lower intelligence go way farther in life and a guy who is a mensa member and socially awkward

[Predicto]

IQ doesn't mean **** in real life...I agree with that if that is what you were trying to say. However, it is the best way of measuring a persons capability. I have seen all sides of the bell curve and often seen people with much lower intelligence go way farther in life and a guy who is a mensa member and socially awkward

I have no doubt that some people are more "intelligent" (in the sense of naturally academically inclined) than others. Someday we may even know how to test for it.

I have huge doubts that traditional IQ tests are of much use at all. No way are they accurate enough that one can say that someone who is tested at a 110 IQ is different than someone who tested at a 118 IQ. Sure, someone who tests at 140 is at a different level than someone who tests at 85. But more than that - meh. It's hogwash.

[WVUforREDSKINS]

I have no doubt that some people are more "intelligent" (in the sense of naturally academically inclined) than others. Someday we may even know how to test for it.

I have huge doubts that traditional IQ tests are of much use at all. No way are they accurate enough that one can say that someone who is tested at a 110 IQ is different than someone who tested at a 118 IQ. Sure, someone who tests at 140 is at a different level than someone who tests at 85. But more than that - meh. It's hogwash.

Point blank, Smoot Point.....really

And you're a defense lawyer...so you always gotta have doubt. I, uhh, thank all of you for your ability to convince the judge.