gorebd82 Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 I've seen a lot of threads and comments saying that rebuilding our O-Line is the foundation for this team's future success and I completely concur. I do, however, believe there is this great delusion by many members of ES who think that we should spend our first 3-6 draft picks on OL. This philosophy is heavily flawed. To fix our O-Line, we need a BALANCE of young vets and draft picks. The last time we had a major hole in our team, we addressed the need heavily through the draft. That's how we ended up with Malcolm Kelly, Devin Thomas and Fred Davis. I'm not calling these guys busts, but they haven't become major contributors in 2 years. So anyone that thinks drafting a starting T, G, and C is the answer needs to rethink their position. If we start 3 or more rookie OL, our line will look worse than this year's line. If we draft 4 or 5 OL, only one or two will start. We need a combination of draft picks and veterans to rebuild the line. We absolutely should not spend our first 3 picks on OL. Maybe 2 of the 3 and a late round pick. With a bunch of rookies, we will have a line with no experience or cohesion. Most likely bad technique, bad decisions, and no leadership without vets to set the example. We should also bring in 2 vet OL to compete for starting spots. Target guys that are in their prime, like when we brought in Randy Thomas and Rabach. These guys can be effective for a few years while we continue to consistent spend a pick or two over the next few seasons to build OL depth and development. We cannot neglect the strong units of our team just to oversaturate the current deficiency. That is how we got in this mess in the first place. Our O-Line was the team strength for almost a decade with Samuels, Randy and Jansen, so we took OL development for granted to fix other areas. Let's not make the same mistake again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panel Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 I don't think that there is anything wrong with having a group of young guys that are brought up together and gel early on as a unit. Worked for the Giants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IbleedBnG83 Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 I don't think that there is anything wrong with having a group of young guys that are brought up together and gel early on as a unit. Worked for the Giants. The Giants are a pefect example. 9, 6, 10, 9, 7. They all DIDN'T come in at the same time. You need balance of Vets and young guys. Before those Vets or young guys started, there were Vets before them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IbleedBnG83 Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 The only hold over should be Dockery as the starter and Randy Thomas and Casey Rabach as backups. I would bring in a tackle and gaurd via the Free Agency who was a proven starter. Then draft a tackle, gaurd, and center in the draft. Heck, Edwin Williams could very well be a future center for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgray1111 Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 I'm a big fan of the idea that you start changing the O-line by adding young players and start phasing out the veterans. This is really the only proven way to build an O-line,right? We've proven that you CAN'T have sustained success when you go and piece together a line from free agents. I'd say, in the next draft, pick up one of each position on the line and see who works. Yo'ure bound to hit on one of them, if not more, and just keep working like that. The main thing is to create depth along the line because these guys get hurt, and we've seen what lack of depth gets you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warpath11 Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 The last time we had a major hole in our team, we addressed the need heavily through the draft. That's how we ended up with Malcolm Kelly, Devin Thomas and Fred Davis. The only need pick out of that group was Devin Thomas and he was a great value at the top of the second round (many had him projected as a first rounder). Davis is the BPA poster boy, he was the highest ranked player on our board at the time thus we made the pick. He was definetly not a need (Cooley), but in the skins' eyes, was the best player available at the time. Same could be said for Malcolm Kelly. Only thing we can really question, in hindsight, is our draft board and prospect rankings. Should we have ranked DeSean Jackson or Eddie Royal above Devin Thomas? At the time no way, with benefit of hindsight maybe we should have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingGibbs Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 If Snyder gets an actual football mind in here this year there's no way in hell he doen't go OL heavy in the draft. With the possibility of a rookie cap looming a lot of players are going to leave college early IMO. There should be a surplus of talent this upcoming draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 Personally the way I would go about it is by trying to find a guard and center in the draft leaving us with a fairly young center of the line (Dockery will be turning 30). The tackles will need to be handled in the short term via free agency. This would allow the team to try to grab a QB in the first round. Guards and Centers can definitely be had in rounds 2-4. Tackles however tend to go early so I'd get some decent vets and try to pick up tackles in drafts down the line... But really why even talk about this? Dan and Vinny won't do anything the right way. I'd be shocked if we didn't draft a DB with our pick and trade for a late 1st round to pick up whatever QB is still available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 This is what I was preaching leading up to last year's draft. Its not that I just want the big name rookies to come in and take the jobs of a Jansen or a Rabach. I'd love to have a guy like Huchinson who's considered "the best" or "among the best" at his position, but I feel like Snyder (and the fans) too often get blindsided by that and ignore the 4 other spots along the line. If you look at our DL right now, we've got a mixture of youth and vet leadership. I'm not a fan of the Haynesworth pickup, but I do like the Jarmon and Orakpo signings. Add to that Golston, Alexander, and (maybe) Montgomery and you've got some youth in there along with the vet leadership of Carter, Griffin, Daniels, and Wynn (who I'm also not a fan of keeping). But the key to this is that we've got to keep adding players and phasing in new talent and phasing out old talent. When you've only drafted one lineman in the last 3 or 4 years, then there's a lot of pressure on that guy to perform. And if/when he doesn't, then it leaves a (lot of) huge wholes on the OL, particularly regarding injury issues. What we need to do is start a pipeline with the OL and have a few picks dedicated to the OL and DL every year, kinda how we've been drafting at least one secondary guy every year, or at least one FB/TE every year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gorebd82 Posted October 30, 2009 Author Share Posted October 30, 2009 The only hold over should be Dockery as the starter and Randy Thomas and Casey Rabach as backups.I would bring in a tackle and gaurd via the Free Agency who was a proven starter. Then draft a tackle, gaurd, and center in the draft. Heck, Edwin Williams could very well be a future center for us. I don't think this can work so easily. Do you think Casey Rabach will not gripe about being a backup to a rookie that wins the job just for the sake of change and not because he beat him out? Don't you think that Randy Thomas would be an expensive backup? Our O-Line is not void of players that should be on next year's roster, but there is not a quality, cohesive unit. I see Dockery and Levi Jones as players that should definitely start next year. Rabach is a question mark and certainly can be upgraded, but he is still a starting caliber center. Mike Williams has not done anything yet, but he's only 2 games into his comeback. Give him next year's offseason to see if he's really ready. Don't give up on Rhinehart yet. Edwin Williams isn't ready to be thrown in the fire, but that doesn't mean he's not the center of the future. That's six guys I've named that may still have a spot on this roster. Only one is over 30. We can keep a max of about 10 OL on our roster for the season. If we draft 2 OL early, draft one late, sign 2 young vets and bring in undrafted guys, we will have a lot of options for the new coaching staff. Just like a young QB can develop bad habits behind a porous OL, if we draft a bunch of young guys and throw them into the fire, they can develop bad habits and lose confidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gorebd82 Posted October 30, 2009 Author Share Posted October 30, 2009 The only need pick out of that group was Devin Thomas and he was a great value at the top of the second round (many had him projected as a first rounder). Davis is the BPA poster boy, he was the highest ranked player on our board at the time thus we made the pick. He was definetly not a need (Cooley), but in the skins' eyes, was the best player available at the time. Same could be said for Malcolm Kelly. I'm not bashing the FO decisions on those players. I actually like all three of them and think that at least 2 of the 3 will do big things for us. I just used that to illustrate that overkill on drafting a position/skillset does not necessarily give the immediate returns or guaranteed success. I want people to understand that drafting 7 offensive linemen doesn't mean that we will have a good OL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gorebd82 Posted October 30, 2009 Author Share Posted October 30, 2009 This is what I was preaching leading up to last year's draft. Its not that I just want the big name rookies to come in and take the jobs of a Jansen or a Rabach. I'd love to have a guy like Huchinson who's considered "the best" or "among the best" at his position, but I feel like Snyder (and the fans) too often get blindsided by that and ignore the 4 other spots along the line. If you look at our DL right now, we've got a mixture of youth and vet leadership. I'm not a fan of the Haynesworth pickup, but I do like the Jarmon and Orakpo signings. Add to that Golston, Alexander, and (maybe) Montgomery and you've got some youth in there along with the vet leadership of Carter, Griffin, Daniels, and Wynn (who I'm also not a fan of keeping). But the key to this is that we've got to keep adding players and phasing in new talent and phasing out old talent. When you've only drafted one lineman in the last 3 or 4 years, then there's a lot of pressure on that guy to perform. And if/when he doesn't, then it leaves a (lot of) huge wholes on the OL, particularly regarding injury issues. What we need to do is start a pipeline with the OL and have a few picks dedicated to the OL and DL every year, kinda how we've been drafting at least one secondary guy every year, or at least one FB/TE every year. Bingo. I think you've hit the nail on the head. The D-Line development is the perfect example to me. Even though you may not like the Big Al signing, you can't deny that the multi-faceted approach to fixing the DL has gotten results. We added a couple of talented rookies and a difference maker FA and now the DL looks like a new unit despite only one new starter. I would love to see us go into next season with a FA and rookie coming in to take starting spots and maybe an in house prospect like Rhino or Edwin Williams winning a starting job. There's also still a guy like Batiste. He has no business as a tackle, but might be a great guard. Then going forward we should approach OL like we have the secondary and FB/TE. We can spend middle round picks to create a pipeline. And if we do get the opportunity at a big time FA OL, I'm not against it because we've seen how signing Hutchinson, Steinbach, Faneca, and even Mawae changed the stability, personality, grit, determination of there respective new teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins93077 Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 buglaga, wang or fox would be a good start along with our lineman right now and maybe free agents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gorebd82 Posted October 30, 2009 Author Share Posted October 30, 2009 yup, and none of them would cost a 1st round pick according to current projections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Truth Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 I agree mix vets with prospects from the draft but not too crazy wit money on vets lol and PLEASE address the OL in the draft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polywog999 Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 I don't think that there is anything wrong with having a group of young guys that are brought up together and gel early on as a unit. Worked for the Giants. I agree. The whole team needs a good balance of youth and veteran leadership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussieskin Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 start them all young, in fact the whole team should start of young Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkekoa Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 Here's the thing. Next year's FA looks somewhat weak, especially with the additional Franchise tag teams get. We don't have any vets on this team we can count on except Dock (who should be starting) and hopefully Rinehart (who at least gives us a depth position). I'm not against keeping Heyer for depth either. Even if we do start 3 rookies next year, we will look no worse than we do now. We can't because it isn't possible to look worse than we do. We probably will look bad next year while these guys are improving and that is why we don't need to put our future QB behind the line...he will get killed. Our line has been neglected for so long that we only have one viable NFL starter on the team, Dock. Rinehart may be starting material but he has to have a chance and have starting quality players around him to find out. Heyer at this point could be called depth. I did forget about Mike Williams, who is doing better than I expected (which is sad considering he still isn't good yet)...he can also be used for depth if he continues to develop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.