darklight1216 Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 "There have been a number of questionable Roughing the Passer penalties in the early part of the season, particularly in New England's win over Baltimore in Week 4. Some of the complaints have people asking if the officials call penalties more often to specifically protect the bigger-name quarterbacks like Tom Brady and Peyton Manning. What do the numbers say?" Since 2007, the quaterbacks who have drawn the most flags are: 8: Trent Edwards, Jeff Garcia, David Garrard 7: Tom Brady 6: Peyton Manning, Matt Ryan, Kurt Warner 5: Drew Brees, Jay Cutler, Chad Pennington, Matt Schaub Tom Brady and Matt Ryan are especially noteworthy when one considers the fact that Brady missed nearly the entire 2008 season and Ryan did not play in the NFL during the 2007 season. Fun facts: Donavan McNabb has not drawn a roughing the passer penalty since 2007 Tom Brady and Trent Edwards are the only quarterbacks who have drawn 3 penalties in 2009 thus far. Many fans have also complained that certain defenses are more likely to be penalized for roughing the passer than others. When the penalties against the defenses in the league are counted, there is one team that stands out: the Tennessee Titans. The Titans have received a league high 14 roughing the passer penalities since 2007. The Baltimore Ravens are second with nine. Pittsburgh and Carolina tie for third with seven each. http://footballoutsiders.com/extra-points/2009/nfl-protecting-big-name-quarterbacks Is anyone surprised by these findings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Botched Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Interesting data, not sure what to think of it. All I know is QBs are practically untouchable now and it's annoying as hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterPinstripe Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Interesting data, not sure what to think of it. All I know is QBs are practically untouchable now and it's annoying as hell. Yeah, the penalty called on Haynesworth was horrible. Apparently text book tackling is illegal when it comes to QBs... So stupid, they are not ballerinas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OWUeagleMD Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Regardless of the metrics, it diminishes the televised product. Watching a perfectly defensed play result in a 15 yard gain for the offense leaves me completely unsatisfied. It makes me question the competitive balance of the sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pointyfootball Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Yeah, the penalty called on Haynesworth was horrible. Apparently text book tackling is illegal when it comes to QBs... So stupid, they are not ballerinas. I personally thought it was a penatly (similar to his tackle on Brady in preseason), HOWEVER, Collins was tackled in the exact same manner in the 2nd half and it wasn't called, so the problem is with the consistency. I don't have a problem with them protecting the QBs, there are too few good ones as it is, and even with the protection they're still annihliated quite often. With the shift to focusing on concussion safety/avoidance, I'm all for it. Doesn't mean the league is for sissies, because those guys still take a beating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitman#21 Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 The Qb's now should wear flags, it would make more sense since you cant hit em. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OWUeagleMD Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 I personally thought it was a penatly (similar to his tackle on Brady in preseason), HOWEVER, Collins was tackled in the exact same manner in the 2nd half and it wasn't called, so the problem is with the consistency. I don't have a problem with them protecting the QBs, there are too few good ones as it is, and even with the protection they're still annihliated quite often. With the shift to focusing on concussion safety/avoidance, I'm all for it. Doesn't mean the league is for sissies, because those guys still take a beating. I don't need to see injuries, nor do I need the league to be a constant tough-guy competition. But it tarnishes the competition to see an offense get bailed out with a 15-yard penalty after failing to complete a pass on 3rd and 10. Especially against a good offense, forcing a punt is a difficult task. When the refs give the team a new set of downs too regularly, I have a hard time knowing at the end of the day if the best team ended up winning the game. That's a problem for me. Same goes for the illegal contact rule for dbacks, which has spun wildly out of control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterPinstripe Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 I personally thought it was a penatly (similar to his tackle on Brady in preseason), HOWEVER, Collins was tackled in the exact same manner in the 2nd half and it wasn't called, so the problem is with the consistency. I don't have a problem with them protecting the QBs, there are too few good ones as it is, and even with the protection they're still annihliated quite often. With the shift to focusing on concussion safety/avoidance, I'm all for it. Doesn't mean the league is for sissies, because those guys still take a beating. Heres the issue... You have a player trying his hardest to get to the QB, he performs a textbook tackle on the guy while going full speed. You THEN expect a 300 pound guy to twist his body magically in the air in the 2 seconds he is falling so as to not land on the qb... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pointyfootball Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Heres the issue... You have a player trying his hardest to get to the QB, he performs a textbook tackle on the guy while going full speed. You THEN expect a 300 pound guy to twist his body magically in the air in the 2 seconds he is falling so as to not land on the qb... In both instances (Haynesworth & when Collins was tackled), it appeared to me the defender was deliberately trying to drive the QB into the turf. IMO, there's no reason for that, they both knew the ball was out, yet they still did it. A QB is defenseless just after he releases the ball, hence the reason I think they should protect them in that instance, as much as possible. JMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljs Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 has anyone seen Bangs cartoon on this? Its hilarious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjinhan Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 In both instances (Haynesworth & when Collins was tackled), it appeared to me the defender was deliberately trying to drive the QB into the turf. IMO, there's no reason for that, they both knew the ball was out, yet they still did it. A QB is defenseless just after he releases the ball, hence the reason I think they should protect them in that instance, as much as possible. JMO. well the problem with some of these calls is that... QBs are known to "pump fake" so as a defender you need to play through your tackling motion when you do get there... now if the defender launched himself like what happened to Eli last week, then yes that is a 15 yard penalty. Also I agree with OWUEagleMD that its getting stupid now with the illegal contact and all of the ticky-tack fouls... NFL is going to turn into a shell of old itself like the NBA and NHL when the leagues started to create too many rules to "help" the offense to make it entertaining... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterPinstripe Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 NFL is going to turn into a shell of old itself like the NBA and NHL when the leagues started to create too many rules to "help" the offense to make it entertaining... I have never understood this myself... Since when is good, dominating defense NOT entertaining? My favorite part about the game is defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darklight1216 Posted October 22, 2009 Author Share Posted October 22, 2009 I have never understood this myself... Since when is good, dominating defense NOT entertaining? My favorite part about the game is defense. You know that saying "offense sell tickets?" Well the nfl is all about the $$. Tom Brady sells, Peyton Manning sells, third and out does not. I don't know about you guys, but I find it quite boring now. It's become the norm for a quarterback to get 300+ yards in every single game. If a guy gets 400, we barely blink. Three tds? Seen it. A 90.5 qb rating? Who doesn't have that? The league got what it wanted and it's boring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefenderoftheStar Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 this is all about protecting investment, thats why the scrambling qb is dead. Did anyone care about the persons health before this, No, did anyone care when Theismans bone came out of the body, NO. Protect the money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OWUeagleMD Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 I think it's less about protecting teams' investments in QBs, since the league always has and always will be a game driven by coaches and uniforms rather than individuals, and more about promoting offensive productivity. Now, there's a degree to which protecting great QBs also promotes offensive productivity, but then it's just a chicken-egg conundrum. As the rules are written, I think the Ravens-Patriots game was probably called with reasonable equity. The plays that were whistled as fouls did, in fact, violate the rules as they are written. And I certainly realize that the rules are written because QBs are in a defenseless position and are in a unique position for injury. But after I turned off the TV when the Ravens-Patriots game ended, I did not feel the winning team played the best game of football. Certainly great teams should be able to overcome fouls, and if Mark Clayton catches the ball on the five yard line when it drilled him in the numbers the Ravens might have won in spite of the calls. But that's really a pissing match to be had by fans of the respective teams. What I'm talking about is, as an impartial fan, did the game satisfy my desire for competition? In that instance, no. The penalties (including meaningless illegal contact penalties) casted a negative shadow over the game and rendered the outcome irrelevant. I said before that I don't want to see people get hurt more than anyone else, but I do want to watch a game with competitive balance. Awarding 15 yard gains due to some incidental contact on a QB's lower body does not, to me, resemble a game with competitive balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkypoo Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 It's become the norm for a quarterback to get 300+ yards in every single game. If a guy gets 400, we barely blink. Three tds? Seen it. A 90.5 qb rating? Who doesn't have that? I was thinking about this as I was going over the stats for last weekend. What is the new milestone? Is 500 yards the new "amazing" game? And I can't tell if it is because we are watching a generation of uber talented QBs and receivers and coaches, or because defenses have to attack QBs and receivers with Nerf guns instead of actually tackling. I hope it's the former. I hope these QBs are as good as their numbers. Because that would mean that defenses can and will eventually catch up. If it is the changes to the game that brought this about, than it is...it...it would just suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Regardless of the metrics, it diminishes the televised product. Watching a perfectly defensed play result in a 15 yard gain for the offense leaves me completely unsatisfied. It makes me question the competitive balance of the sport. Agree 100%. It's at the point now where everytime the QB gets hit but gets rid of the ball, I assume it's going to draw a flag. Same deal with pass interference calls. NFL must clean this crap up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeHateMe Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Regardless of the metrics, it diminishes the televised product. Watching a perfectly defensed play result in a 15 yard gain for the offense leaves me completely unsatisfied. It makes me question the competitive balance of the sport. I'll second that. But there's nothing worse than it happening on a 3rd and long where they stop them on downs and the refs bail 'em out with a bogus call. Certainly does call into question the agenda of the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alabama Man Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Fun facts: Donavan McNabb has not drawn a roughing the passer penalty since 2007 Believe me, I've noticed, and it's not all that fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darklight1216 Posted October 23, 2009 Author Share Posted October 23, 2009 Believe me, I've noticed, and it's not all that fun. At least you can say that he takes his hits like a man. He doesn't jump up and down and celebrate over a yellow flag like some people. >.< I was thinking about this as I was going over the stats for last weekend. What is the new milestone? Is 500 yards the new "amazing" game? And I can't tell if it is because we are watching a generation of uber talented QBs and receivers and coaches, or because defenses have to attack QBs and receivers with Nerf guns instead of actually tackling. I hope it's the former. I hope these QBs are as good as their numbers. Because that would mean that defenses can and will eventually catch up. If it is the changes to the game that brought this about, than it is...it...it would just suck. There are definitely some talented young quarterbacks, and intelligent coaches out there, but honestly I think it has more to do with the Nerf guns. The league has been emasculating defenses for quite some time and it has reached an epic level in the last two decades. I don't believe that defenses will be able to catch up on their own because every time they try a new trick there is always a rule that takes away that edge. Before you know it, there will be a limit on the number of interceptions a team can get in a single game. You'll only be able to blitz once per possesion. This reminds me: I saw this funny Ravens vs Patriots cartoon. Ray Lewis was flagged for "glaring menacingly at the quarterback." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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