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Fair Catch Called... Pushed into the Return Man... Then a Change of Posession?

Reaganaut

By Reaganaut
in The Stadium

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Going Commando

Going Commando

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Posted
That ref sounds like a moron. Like many on ES, he's only focused on who touched ARE, rather than the fact that the Carolina player ran right to the spot where the ball landed. All we had to figure out was who touched it???? No dumbass, you have to figure out whether ARE ever had any chance of catching it with some Carolina player standing between him and the ball.

That's absolutely right and I didn't think about that. How big is Randle El's halo supposed to be on that?

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SirClintonPortis

SirClintonPortis

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Do you people really think this call cost the team the game? It didn't have anything to do with the fact that they had 198 yards of offense? Or the only two TD drives were 13 yards and 1 yard? I wasn't happy about the call either but face it, they did not play well enough to win the game.

Giving the Panthers free points and momentum has everything to do with losing the game. It undid the work the D did to stop them and force a punt.

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RandyHolt

RandyHolt

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ARE once again proved too passive to run up and field a short punt. I miss the days of fearless Mike Nelms. ARE has to take some of the blame, Westbrook some as well. He was getting abused and needs to learn to drop. He's a greenhorn though, he learned.

But will Zorn learn? I would love to see him command we try and do the same before he gets canned.

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JoeSkins

JoeSkins

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Complain all you want, that play was on the Redskins as well. Make the peter/poison call and the problem is solved. If the peter/poison call was made, then the mistake is on Westbrook. It was a terribly short punt, and that's how you deal with those.

It was an unfortunate play, but it's certainly not the first time I've seen a play like that. Frankly, I'm surprised at the protesting.

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mcarey032

mcarey032

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Posted
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/referee-explains-call.html?wprss=redskinsinsider

Referee Explains Call

Referee Walt Coleman explains the punt-fumble call: "What happened was, the two guys were blocking each other. The Washington guy got blocked into his own man, so there was no interference. All we had to figure out who touched it first. If the Washington player is stationary and just standing there and not trying to block, then he can't do that. If they are both trying to block, then he can knock him into him. Because they were both engaged, then that's why there wasn't a foul or anything wrong with that play. If the Washington player is stationary and just standing there and the Carolina player had come down there and knocked him, then it would have been totally different."

Don't worry, Mike Periera will explain it away this week on the NFL network. Some obscure rule that never ever comes into play now comes into play. This team is just plain bad. We have no heart and there is no excuse. It should have never come down to that play, but it did. We are now probably done for the season. What a long season/off season this is going to be.

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Oldskool

Oldskool

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http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/It-s-legal-to-block-a-guy-into-a-returner-who-ha?urn=nfl,195285

Referee Walt Coleman worked the infamous Patriots-Raiders playoff game that introduced the world to the tuck rule. Today, in the Washington Redskins-Carolina Panthers game, Coleman and his crew correctly interpreted another rule that was equally confusing to those watching and, arguably, just as ridiculous.

With the Redskins holding a 17-12 lead early in the fourth quarter, the team was set to return a punt after forcing a three-and-out from the Panthers. Antwaan Randle El(notes) signaled for a fair catch but was run into by teammate Byron Westbrook(notes) who, while preparing to block, was pushed into Randle El by Panthers safety Quinton Teal(notes). The ball dropped into the resulting scrum, hit Westbrook in the foot and was eventually recovered by Carolina.

Officials discussed the play and initially awarded the Redskins possession before reversing course and giving the ball to the Panthers.

It seemed like a ridiculous call. How could it be legal to intentionally shove a player into another player who had called for a fair catch? Doesn't that violate the spirit of the fair catch?

Apparently not. Coleman explained the ruling after the game (quotes courtesy @RickMaese)

"What happened was, the two guys were blocking each other. The Washington guy got blocked into his own man, so there was no interference. All we had to figure out who touched it first. If the Wash player is stationary and just standing there and not trying to block, then he can't do that. If they are both trying to block, then he can knock him into him. Because they were both engaged, then that's why there wasn't a foul or anything wrong with that play. If the Wash player is stationary and just standing there and the Carolina player had come down there and knocked him, then it would have been totally different."

So if a guy is just sitting around, it's illegal for a defender to shove him into a guy calling a fair catch. But if they're in a tussle, it's allowed.

The players on the Redskins said they were aware of the rule and that they practice blocking players into fair catchers during practice. I've never seen that actually happen in a game though.

I'm a Redskins fan, albeit a completely jaded one, so I'm not the most arbitrary person to be discussing this. It's like asking Charles Woodson(notes) what he thinks about the tuck rule. But I'm not sure what the difference is between getting shoved and getting blocked. Why the subtle difference? As MJD Tweeted after the play, why not just run downfield grabbing a guy by the shoulder pads and throw him into the punt returner every time?

Jim Zorn was confused too. For some reason he challenged the play even though it was clear that the ball hit Westbrook first. Once the ruling was explained there's nothing to challenge, except, perhaps, the absurdity of yet another NFL rule.

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Rypien1191

Rypien1191

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This non call had me smoking. I was pissed.. Still am..

This cost us the game..

No, gaining less than 200 yards of offense cost us the game. We wouldn't have even been close in this game if it wasn't for the defense gift wrapping 14 points.

What's the difference between 2-3 and 3-2 when we're not going to do anything this year anyway? Give me a higher draft pick and a greater likelihood of blowing this mess up.

People need to get over the thinking that were "almost" there. Not even close.

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Skinz128777

Skinz128777

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Posted
If I were a Special Teams guru from now on I'd look to make a short kick, look for the fair catch signal and shove a player directly into the spot where the guy is fair catching the ball. Every time.

Apparently this is LEGAL in THE FRIGGING NFL!

Find some dimwit, grab him under both arms and throw him at the return man. That's the ticket.

Sounds like a winning strategy to me. WTF happened, can somebody please tell me how this is legal?

Total BULL****!!!!! I was so pissed at this play. That was fair catch interference no matter how you look at it.

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gcskins

gcskins

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Two things:

1. Isn't blocking someone into the receiver impeding the path of receiver of the fair catch?

2. I have never supported Byron Westbrook coming on this team. He has a big heart, but not the body to match. WTF was he doing out there trying to block somebody on a punt return. A safety pushed his little a** around.

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LaxBuddy21

LaxBuddy21

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The whole problem is this scenario is not outlined in the rule period. What the refs came out with is an interpretation. I think they are wrong. The rule says you cannot impede the receivers path to the ball. Pushing a defender into the receiver is impeding his path to the ball. Knocking him off that path in any way breaks that rule. The only way I would have agreed with that call is if it was incidental contact. There I could see them not calling anything but he clearly threw Westbrook into Randel El.

For others saying this didnt lose us the game because we should have been blowing them out, seriously just can it. You act like most games in the NFL dont come down to a few key plays. Look at how close most of the games are in the NFL. You think one bad call couldn't change the outcome of a game involving "good teams"? If the same kind of call happens in the Pittsburgh game, all of a sudden Detroit has a real shot to win that game. Same with the Denver/New England game or the Dallas/KC game. Dont minimize the impact that this call had on the game because you think we should be blowing teams out. You couldnt realistically expect us to keep Carolina at 2 points the whole game. This was a big time call that completely changed the game. If we get that call, they lose 8 points and we maybe drive down for 3 or 7. The game goes from a loss to a huge win.

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DixieFlatline

DixieFlatline

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Posted
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/referee-explains-call.html?wprss=redskinsinsider

Referee Explains Call

Referee Walt Coleman explains the punt-fumble call: "What happened was, the two guys were blocking each other. The Washington guy got blocked into his own man, so there was no interference. All we had to figure out who touched it first. If the Washington player is stationary and just standing there and not trying to block, then he can't do that. If they are both trying to block, then he can knock him into him. Because they were both engaged, then that's why there wasn't a foul or anything wrong with that play. If the Washington player is stationary and just standing there and the Carolina player had come down there and knocked him, then it would have been totally different."

I just rewatched this on DVR and what makes me angry is that you can see Westbrook hear Randle El and he is trying to stop and disengage from the Panther player. He's trying to stop and that's when the guy pushes him forward. So, to me he wasn't trying to block any more.

I know its a bang bang play for the officials, but I wish you could review that part of the call.

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THE HAMMER'IN HOG

THE HAMMER'IN HOG

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Yup! I am saying if I am Danny Smith I am coaching my team to do that same thing whenever possible.

Detroit game had some horrible calls too.

Do you really think DS is that smart? He wasn't smart enough to put someone other than Westbrook in front of the returner, if I am on the coverage team and see a little guy like BW standing there I would try and drive him into the returner as well, how hard can it be to jack up BW with a full head of steam?

Just more overall stupidity from the Skins, we take the simple things and make them difficult.

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