Two Plays Are All It Takes

[jkypoo]

For the past 24+ hours, I have read and heard a lot of negativity directed towards the Redskins, as well as a lot of praise directed towards the Giants. I will begin by saying that neither the negativity nor the praise is entirely warranted.

I understand that the outcome of a football game is a culmination of 60 minutes of work after a week of preparation and months of practicing. However, looking back on and thinking about this game, I focus on two moments: Both of the Giants touchdowns.

1) In regards to the pass, catch, and run for the first Giants touchdown:

If we don’t have three guys miss on tackles on that one play, I have faith that our defense would not have given up anything more than a field goal on that drive. The Giants tested us time and time again deep in our territory and we prevailed every time, giving up only field goals. The praise for the Giants offense is unwarranted in this sense, because they essentially failed except for on one play. They could not execute to put the ball in the end zone except for when we missed three tackles on one play. On the flip side, the negativity about the Redskins defense is equally unwarranted. Sure, we couldn’t get the Giants offense off the field, but we also didn’t let them “have their way” as I have read numerous times. If it was the case that we let them “have their way” then the score would have been much more lopsided.

2) In regards to the Campbell sack, fumble, and the resulting second Giants touchdown:

If Campbell steps up in the pocket, the whole drive and game could have been different—would have been different. We lost out on potential points and gave them a touchdown. That is entirely Campbell’s fault. The best part about this play is that almost every NFL quarterback has had the strip/sack from behind happen to them during their career. Also, I do not believe that this particular incident is a reoccurring problem for Campbell; neither do I believe it will become one. In fact, Campbell will probably be forever conscious to never let it happen again. That being said: Our offense put together 3 scoring drives against a top tier defense and an amazingly well coached team. Sure, we were hampered by questionable/bad play calling, but we moved the ball exceptionally well down the middle of the field.

Look, I know plays can’t be taken away or changed in any way. What happened on the field Sunday is how it will be written in history. But those two plays represented a 14 point swing (possibly 17 or 21 if we could have scored on the strip/sack/td drive), and both can be remedied in the future. Tackling by DBs definitely needs to be addressed, as well as sideline awareness (because all that Giant receiver needed was a stiff wind or a good fart to knock him out). Pocket awareness needs to continue to be a concern for the QB, and he needs to learn from that mistake and never let it again, so much as he can help it.

I’m not saying we’re great, but we are good. Without those two miscues we are looking at a W over the reigning division champs. And if we would have secured a W, more people would be fine with how the players performed as a whole. There would have been so many fans just happy that we scraped out a W against such a good team. But since there is an L, we overreact and want everyone either fired or benched. And two plays are all it takes. Two plays are all it takes for our defense to all the sudden suck and our offense to continue to be horrible in the eyes of the majority of the fan base. I saw things differently on Sunday, even without burgundy shades and being a dozen beers down. We played better than a lot if not most of the other teams in week one, unfortunately we made two errors that ultimately cost us the game.

We probably all want a 16-0 team. But realistically that was never going to happen anyways. We still have a chance, though, at the division, the playoffs, hell, even the super bowl. No team is out of it yet, and I say we have a good a chance as any, better than most. We do not need wholesale change after one game. The powers that be need to make this thing work with what we have. They have to make it work. They will make it work. No body involved with this organization on any level wants us to lose. No one is happy about it.

This team has the potential to get big wins this season, and lots of them. We can hang with the big boys, we can beat the big boys, and we have a team of which to be proud. We were just two plays away Sunday. Those plays will go the other way next time around. The Redskins are not done. I am nowhere close to giving up on them.

HTTR for life…and especially this week!!!

[RIPSean]

Campbell getting stripped not a recurring problem? I'm not sure about that.

[SkinsFTW]

I don't necessarily see that game as a win if those 2 plays didn't happen.

We would never have been given the prevent defense to score the later TD and we never attack on offense but still, like Gibbs, just play not to lose but never to win either.

To beat the Giants you have to play to win. Remember the 17-0 halftime game a couple years ago where they went from no offense at all, totally shut down, to everything they tried worked and they won 24-17? We just played not to lose the entire 2nd half while they came back and took it over. Then we tried frantically at the end to do something. It's just ****ing pathetic.

[Enter Apotheosis]

If we don’t have three guys miss on tackles on that one play, I have faith that our defense would not have given up anything more than a field goal on that drive.

That's not a very bold statement. If we didn't miss the first tackle on that play it would have been fourth down.

[SkinsFTW]

Campbell getting stripped not a recurring problem? I'm not sure about that.

Yeah, I think in 07 it was a major problem. It's one of the reasons he didn't get stripped much last year too. Zorn stopped the deep passing 7 step drop stuff. I wonder why? Now we might know. Campbell can't do it which makes his arm rather irrelevant, huh?

[Vooskin]

jkypoo while I agreed with you before and do agree on some of this I need to point something out.

If you watched both the monday night games tonight you notice that the team picked to win won it. The "better" team was outplayed for most of the game. MOST is what I focus on. **** happens, things go wrong but if you cannot overcome them then you arent as good as the team that beat you.

While losing to the rams last year might have been a fluke in terms of team level it was in line with our history of playing down to our competitions level and finding ways to lose. Our problem is we dont find ways to win.

I have no doubt we will look amazing over the next few weeks. Campbell should have plenty of time to throw and portis should have nice lanes. I see again yet another pattern. We are good enough to beat good teams, good enough to beat up bad teams, not good enough to beat elite teams, and not good enough to overcome game changing plays. Skins rarely dictate a game, they either flow with it or are being controlled.

I do agree in one aspect, by all means I think we are a better team then last year. I think our defense is going to make teams the next few weeks look pretty bad. I think our offense will make teams defenses look worse. I think we will get complacent facing these bad teams just as we did last year and when we finally get challenged, play hard early but eventually get thrown on our butts.

[jkypoo]

Campbell getting stripped not a recurring problem? I'm not sure about that.

Yeah, I think in 07 it was a major problem. It's one of the reasons he didn't get stripped much last year too. Zorn stopped the deep passing 7 step drop stuff. I wonder why? Now we might know. Campbell can't do it which makes his arm rather irrelevant, huh?

If it wasn't a problem last year then it can be remedied this year before it becomes a problem.

I'm not trying to coddle or make excuses for Campbell, but if he doesn't have the experience from last year in those situations, then that explains why the mistake was so blatantly made. It is something that can be and has to be fixed.

Campbell should be at a level where avoiding such instances is instinctual. He should be a much better quarterback all around. But, at this point, he is not. He is going to have to learn fast because the pressure is on. He is going to get leaned on this year and he will either produce or crack under the pressure. If the latter occurs, then we will never have to deal with it again. But for the sake of this team and this season, I hope and think he gets it done.

I don't necessarily see that game as a win if those 2 plays didn't happen.

We would never have been given the prevent defense to score the later TD and we never attack on offense but still, like Gibbs, just play not to lose but never to win either. [/Quote]

But without those two plays and taking away our last drive, the score would still have been 10-9. This is what I'm saying: We didn't get rolled. We made two mistakes that effected the eventual outcome immensely. Other mistakes were made by both teams, but these are the two I keep coming back to.

To beat the Giants you have to play to win. Remember the 17-0 halftime game a couple years ago where they went from no offense at all, totally shut down, to everything they tried worked and they won 24-17? We just played not to lose the entire 2nd half while they came back and took it over. Then we tried frantically at the end to do something. It's just ****ing pathetic.

I agree. We have to play to win. Trust me, I am still baffled by the timing of some of the running plays, the WR pass, the WR screen, etc. etc. The play calling blows my mind week in and week out, but I know everyone wants to win. We have the tools. We just have to do it. And I think we will.

That's not a very bold statement. If we didn't miss the first tackle on that play it would have been fourth down.

I know, but even if the third guy would have pushed or dragged him out of bounds, it would have saved a touchdown.

If you watched both the monday night games tonight you notice that the team picked to win won it. The "better" team was outplayed for most of the game. MOST is what I focus on. **** happens, things go wrong but if you cannot overcome them then you arent as good as the team that beat you.[/Quote]

While I agree with the sentiment, we weren't playing the Bills or the Raiders. We were playing the defending division champion New York Giants. Their resume compared to ours over the past few years definitely makes them the "better" team. And they didn't have to find a way to win, we gave it to them. And we can and will be so much better.

While losing to the rams last year might have been a fluke in terms of team level it was in line with our history of playing down to our competitions level and finding ways to lose. Our problem is we dont find ways to win.[/Quote]

Oh but we will. I have no evidence or even reason to think this way. In fact, I only have evidence to the contrary. But this coach and QB are going to be fighting for their lives. Their fight or flight instinct is going to have to kick in, and I hope that, when it comes down to it, we will find out theyare fighters.

I have no doubt we will look amazing over the next few weeks. Campbell should have plenty of time to throw and portis should have nice lanes. I see again yet another pattern. We are good enough to beat good teams, good enough to beat up bad teams, not good enough to beat elite teams, and not good enough to overcome game changing plays. Skins rarely dictate a game, they either flow with it or are being controlled.

I do agree in one aspect, by all means I think we are a better team then last year. I think our defense is going to make teams the next few weeks look pretty bad. I think our offense will make teams defenses look worse. I think we will get complacent facing these bad teams just as we did last year and when we finally get challenged, play hard early but eventually get thrown on our butts.

I still think last year had more to do with injuries than complacency. The key this year is to beat bad teams convincingly, good teams soundly, and elite teams barely. That can happen with building consistency and rhythm over the next few weeks. We played with the Giants Sunday. We did not get stomped on or embarrassed. We gave away two scores on two mistakes. If that doesn't happen this whole message board has a different feel. This whole team would look different. That game, however, did not diminish my outlook for this season. Rather reinforced what I already thought: we are getting better; we will be better.

[TSO]

Campbell getting stripped not a recurring problem? I'm not sure about that.

Really? He had the problem in 07, totally fixed it in 08, and Osi does that to everyone. But, hey, I don't know why the OP is trying to speak any sense to this community, nor do I know why I'm so foolish as to reply to someone who probably won't even give a chance to anything but negative points about the Skins right now.

But I'm still appreciative the OP made this thread. Thanks for sticking your neck out there, though I don't believe you are. I feel as you feel... we're a good team that is still learning how to become great. Hopefully we learn it real soon, and I don't think it's far off. There will be a lot of bumpage going on around here because of the ridiculously negative nancies that all came out after being quiet since the third preseason game. Cowards. :doh:

[SkinsFTW]

Campbell should be at a level where avoiding such instances is instinctual. He should be a much better quarterback all around. But, at this point, he is not. He is going to have to learn fast because the pressure is on. He is going to get leaned on this year and he will either produce or crack under the pressure. If the latter occurs, then we will never have to deal with it again. But for the sake of this team and this season, I hope and think he gets it done.

Part of the problem, or most of the problem is playing not to lose and that's what the Redskins have done for years now.

Campbell doesn't get a chance to learn like Favre did. He just gets to do what the coaches aren't afraid to run. Could be why he's playing like a rookie still in some ways.

Like when he made the 2 big mistakes in NY. A guy like Roethlisberger would be allowed to tear the opponent up trying to make up for it. And he would make even more mistakes too in the process. Campbell isn't given this opportunity. If he had been given this opportunity from the beginning we'd have known 2-3 years ago if he is worth keeping around. Since he's treated like a rookie still though, he still hasn't proven one way or the other. He makes a mistake, its back to the conservative scared stuff.

[SkinsFTW]

There will be a lot of bumpage going on around here because of the ridiculously negative nancies that all came out after being quiet since the third preseason game. Cowards. :doh:

Are you serious?

We all jumped on the JC bandwagon after the preseason?

I seem to remember disagreeing with all the threads saying that we would own the Giants. I even specified why. Campbell would do something stupid and then Zorn would return to the WCO version of Martyball.

Isn't that what happened?

[Deefense]

another wasted thread. good lord, people. All I SEE is IF we did this. IF we did that. well IF all those IF's did happen, I guess we wouldve f'n won, dont ya think.

the truth is we couldnt have played much worse against the giants. lets hope skins showup this week.

[jkypoo]

another wasted thread. good lord, people. All I SEE is IF we did this. IF we did that. well IF all those IF's did happen, I guess we wouldve f'n won, dont ya think.

the truth is we couldnt have played much worse against the giants. lets hope skins showup this week.

That is not the truth; That is your truth.

Neither the offense nor the defense played as horribly as the doomsayers would have us believe.

And I am not trying to turn back time.

I am simply asserting that those two plays impacted the game more than any others, and both of them were the result of mistakes, and both instances of mistakes can be addressed and remedied.

Without those plays, I really feel and think that we played, at the very, very least, level with the defending division champs.

And as long as we're talking about wasting people's time with worthless words, maybe next time you should take your own advice and consider not posting.

[jkypoo]

Part of the problem, or most of the problem is playing not to lose and that's what the Redskins have done for years now.

Campbell doesn't get a chance to learn like Favre did. He just gets to do what the coaches aren't afraid to run. Could be why he's playing like a rookie still in some ways.

Like when he made the 2 big mistakes in NY. A guy like Roethlisberger would be allowed to tear the opponent up trying to make up for it. And he would make even more mistakes too in the process. Campbell isn't given this opportunity. If he had been given this opportunity from the beginning we'd have known 2-3 years ago if he is worth keeping around. Since he's treated like a rookie still though, he still hasn't proven one way or the other. He makes a mistake, its back to the conservative scared stuff.

I agree that this has been our problem. But I am honestly excited about JC and Zorn being backed into a corner. I want to see how they react with their jobs, careers, and reputations on the lines. One way or the other, it is going to have to get exciting. In strictly that sense, I am glad they didn't knock off the Giants with the stay medium, conservative game plan. From here on out, they are no longer playing a game, they are competing for their livelihood. It is not a matter of if they let loose, it has to be a matter of when, which is, essentially, our wild card for the rest of the season.

[jkypoo]

But I'm still appreciative the OP made this thread. Thanks for sticking your neck out there, though I don't believe you are. I feel as you feel... we're a good team that is still learning how to become great. Hopefully we learn it real soon, and I don't think it's far off. There will be a lot of bumpage going on around here because of the ridiculously negative nancies that all came out after being quiet since the third preseason game. Cowards. :doh:

Even without a single significant change in personnel, this team is going to become unrecognizable--for better or worse--and it will be exciting.

[Veretax]

Fair points, and what I've said is if JC continues to do things like lose the ball in the pocket this past week that he's done. One fumble in a season, on a great play by Osi, really isn't grounds alone to call for his head, yet.

[SkinsFTW]

I am honestly excited about JC and Zorn being backed into a corner. I want to see how they react with their jobs, careers, and reputations on the lines. One way or the other, it is going to have to get exciting. In strictly that sense, I am glad they didn't knock off the Giants with the stay medium, conservative game plan. From here on out, they are no longer playing a game, they are competing for their livelihood. It is not a matter of if they let loose, it has to be a matter of when, which is, essentially, our wild card for the rest of the season.

Right, but when the heat was on what did Zorn do? He put Campbell in the corner again and played Martyball.

Run the ball, screen pass, run the ball, run the ball, 3 yd dump off, challenging nothing even though the only weakness in the Giants D is their secondary. Their DB's are all 2nd-3rd stringer scrubs no better than Tryon and the guys we cut in preseason. Lets avoid attacking them because to do that would require faith in the QB to stay away from their DL. The OL was fine.

Zorn is so afraid of 1 mistake from Campbell that he scraps his entire offense and plays a WCO version of Martyball. Did it work? Sure, if you consider the 4th Qtr td against the Giants prevent defense as working. I guess the stats will end up looking good after you add them to the upcoming Rams and Lions games. Play not to lose. It's a viable gameplan for a HC on the hotseat who'd rather punt or run on 3rd and 8 than take a chance to win the game. We will likely be 2-1 soon anyway.

Then look at Blache's defense. It's the same thing. Both of these guys play not to lose. Zorn plays for the punt, then Blache plays for an eventual 4th down. Not any real attempts to get a TO, just to force a punt or FG. Zorn plays to punt, Blache plays to force one. Whats the ****ing point here? Is this soccer?

You actually believe that Zorn is going to open it up soon because he has to? What indication have you been given that I missed?

Play not to lose is all I see. Maybe Snyder told Zorn that he has to make Campbell a winner or else, so he's scared to open it up. I don't know, but he sure is waiting a very long time to use an actual WCO in Washington. It looks like a shrunken down version of Saunders offense so far to me with fewer blockers and fewer downfield shots and less chances taken.

The offense will look great the next 2 weeks or more until we face another DL with any pressure then Zorn will run and hide again. But we will have a winning record and a QB who despite not actually doing anything to win anything, will have a 65-70% completion rate and a great QB rating. That counts more than actually opening up the offense and proving your worth as an OC, QB, and HC.

[jkypoo]

Right, but when the heat was on what did Zorn do? He put Campbell in the corner again and played Martyball.

Run the ball, screen pass, run the ball, run the ball, 3 yd dump off, challenging nothing even though the only weakness in the Giants D is their secondary. Their DB's are all 2nd-3rd stringer scrubs no better than Tryon and the guys we cut in preseason. Lets avoid attacking them because to do that would require faith in the QB to stay away from their DL. The OL was fine.

Zorn is so afraid of 1 mistake from Campbell that he scraps his entire offense and plays a WCO version of Martyball. Did it work? Sure, if you consider the 4th Qtr td against the Giants prevent defense as working. I guess the stats will end up looking good after you add them to the upcoming Rams and Lions games. Play not to lose. It's a viable gameplan for a HC on the hotseat who'd rather punt or run on 3rd and 8 than take a chance to win the game. We will likely be 2-1 soon anyway.

Then look at Blache's defense. It's the same thing. Both of these guys play not to lose. Zorn plays for the punt, then Blache plays for an eventual 4th down. Not any real attempts to get a TO, just to force a punt or FG. Zorn plays to punt, Blache plays to force one. Whats the ****ing point here? Is this soccer?

You actually believe that Zorn is going to open it up soon because he has to? What indication have you been given that I missed?

Play not to lose is all I see. Maybe Snyder told Zorn that he has to make Campbell a winner or else, so he's scared to open it up. I don't know, but he sure is waiting a very long time to use an actual WCO in Washington. It looks like a shrunken down version of Saunders offense so far to me with fewer blockers and fewer downfield shots and less chances taken.

The offense will look great the next 2 weeks or more until we face another DL with any pressure then Zorn will run and hide again. But we will have a winning record and a QB who despite not actually doing anything to win anything, will have a 65-70% completion rate and a great QB rating. That counts more than actually opening up the offense and proving your worth as an OC, QB, and HC.

Again, I agree that the play calling was lacking, but I don't think this game was lopsided in the least. I think we played right there with the Giants save for two mistakes that gave up 14 points. Without those mistakes, I say we win.

As far as Zorn having to open it up, as I've said already, I have no evidence to suggest that he will, and only actually have evidence to the contrary. But he and JC have to know they are gone if this experiment doesn't work. That is what I am excited about, them fighting for their lives and all that that entails.

And I think we saw a better, more open team this year than last, as far as I can judge from one game. Given, once again, that the play calling was lacking at time, and down right sucked at other times, but I look to the 4th quarter, especially. Last year in the 4th, the whole team laid down and took it. This year, we moved the ball down the field and scored. That, in itself, is a change for the positive.

I understand how easy it is to be negative right now. I understand we all want and deserve better and more. But things are going to get much better before they get worse. They have to...I hope.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Good thread.

Those two plays prevented us from holding the Giants to 12 points.

[darrelgreenie]

This team has the potential to get big wins this season, and lots of them. We can hang with the big boys, we can beat the big boys, and we have a team of which to be proud. We were just two plays away Sunday. Those plays will go the other way next time around. The Redskins are not done. I am nowhere close to giving up on them.

HTTR for life…and especially this week!!!

Although i don't agree with some of your smaller points i agree with your theme.

HTTR!

although Zorn's playcalling concerns me a little

[jkypoo]

Those two plays prevented us from holding the Giants to 12 points.

And if we would have only of given them 12, this whole board would be talking about how we played well against the Giants. Instead, we are a horrible team on the brink of collapse. All because of two plays...

[jkypoo]

although Zorn's playcalling concerns me a little

me, too. it concerns me a lot. but for his and JC's sake, it better change. it has to change.

[dexter's manley]

Right, and if my uncle had funbags he'd be my aunt.

The sooner people come to terms that the Redskins are simply not a good team - and aren't very close to being a good team anytime soon - the easier it'll be to read this board. Right now, it's just sad. Our team sucks, people. We need to accept it.

[jkypoo]

Right' date=' and if my uncle had funbags he'd be my aunt.

The sooner people come to terms that the Redskins are simply not a good team - and aren't very close to being a good team anytime soon - the easier it'll be to read this board. Right now, it's just sad. Our team sucks, people. We need to accept it.[/quote']

Actually, if the only change your uncle underwent was the addition of "funbags," then he would still be your uncle. Sex isn't determined by the existence of mammary glands or breast tissue. It is determined by the genitals. There are plenty of men with breasts, and even some with mammary glands.

And the Redskins are a good team.

They played well against a great team on Sunday.

We lost on two plays.

We were two plays away.

Other than those two plays, or defense didn't give anything up and our offense moved the ball and scored points.

You can accept whatever you want, but you should at least remain open to a new perspective.

[thedevilhimself]

And if we would have only of given them 12, this whole board would be talking about how we played well against the Giants. Instead, we are a horrible team on the brink of collapse. All because of two plays...

Nono I think people would be cussing the team out because the Giants put up 12 points and we won by less than a TD ... The same arguments would be in effect ... Campbell is no good, Orakopo is a bum and Haynesworth not worth 10c let alone 100 million $$$

[wvtbred]

More then 2 plays and lets not even mention the "superfecta" Jason messed up. Let's talk about the 5 punts we had when the Giants only punted once.