drtdrums Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 The "Why WCO?" thread got me to thinking (always dangerous). I don't know why we run the WCO, but what I want to know is this: What is the Saints system? Does it even have a label? What is the Patriots system? Someone said it was a version of the WCO, but it looks so different from Walsh's ideas that I can't believe that's correct. What about Indy? They look more WCO than the others, but still don't fit the Walsh mold. The one thing that keeps drifting into my mind is that we have almost no big plays to speak of last year, and we couldn't get one against the Giants yesterday with the exception of that one nice run by Portis. Why do these other teams hit on big plays on a regular basis -- and here's the hint that something is really wrong -- *despite the fact that everyone and their grandmother knows that they need to play deep to keep the big play from occurring*?!? I know the Campbell haters will come out in force, but it's more than just him. The problem is that other teams execute big plays flawlessly, even when the other team is watching for them, and we screw them up even though deep routes should catch the other team by surprise. Is this a system problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilkyDiamonds Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 The Pats run the Erhardt/Perkins offensive system Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooka Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 KDawg has it covered. Five Principles of the West Coast Offense Learning the West Coast Offense: Part 2 Learning the West Coast Offense - Part 3 - Receiver Responsibilities *whoops. Miss-read your first sentence. But, enjoy anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 Well, they've all changed the systems so much. The Eagles have hardly ever used a FB w/ Reid as coach. Tom Moore was the Colts OC. He actually came from Noll's Stellers. As he doesn't really seem to have any interactions w/ the Walsh tree, I don't think you could call it a true WCO, but they clearly did a lot of 3 step drops and slants, and I remember one of the reasons they took Edge over Ricky Williams is he had more pass catching experience out of college so I think they were certainly doing a lot of WCO inspired things more than some other teams. The Saints coach, Sean Payton, is a mixed bag, including coaching under Fassel and Parcells. IMO, their offense always looked like what I would have expected the Gibbs offense would have evolved into if Gibbs would have stayed the first time around. When people talk about the Gibbs offense, they normally think of Riggins and etc., but Gibbs had modelled a sucessfull ofense around the likes of an aging Ernest Beyner and an undersized Ricky Earvins before leaving (coming back though he then seemed to have forgotten what he'd done with them and reverted back to where he had been 5-10 years before leaving the game). I always thought that the Giants w/ Tiki Barber would have been a good model for where the Gibbs offense was going, and I think that style of offense is what Payton is running in NO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlied72 Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 The "Why WCO?" thread got me to thinking (always dangerous). I don't know why we run the WCO, but what I want to know is this:What is the Saints system? Does it even have a label? What is the Patriots system? Someone said it was a version of the WCO, but it looks so different from Walsh's ideas that I can't believe that's correct. What about Indy? They look more WCO than the others, but still don't fit the Walsh mold. The one thing that keeps drifting into my mind is that we have almost no big plays to speak of last year, and we couldn't get one against the Giants yesterday with the exception of that one nice run by Portis. Why do these other teams hit on big plays on a regular basis -- and here's the hint that something is really wrong -- *despite the fact that everyone and their grandmother knows that they need to play deep to keep the big play from occurring*?!? I know the Campbell haters will come out in force, but it's more than just him. The problem is that other teams execute big plays flawlessly, even when the other team is watching for them, and we screw them up even though deep routes should catch the other team by surprise. Is this a system problem? IMO the saints run the closest thing to a full blown spread offense you will see in the NFL. It's a pass first offense with big play running backs and a solid receiving core. I guess you could call it a hybrid WCO/spread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superozman Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 The Skins looked like they ran an "Offensive" offense yesterday! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drtdrums Posted September 14, 2009 Author Share Posted September 14, 2009 Thanks for the posts. Erhardt-Perkins is very interesting after researching it a bit. One of the quotes that jumped out is one that I've heard from coaches but never knew the origins of: "Pass to score. Run to win." I also found references to the Saints running an Air-Coryell hybrid, but after looking into it further, they seem to employ many of the same basic route combinations found in Erhardt-Perkins. Velly, velly intellesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 The Pats run the Erhardt/Perkins offensive system When they are under center, yes. But, Brady operated from the Shotgun Spread for more than 50% of the Pats offensive plays in 2007. In strategy, Matt Bowen called the Pats offense a "WCO out of the shotgun." In philosophy, the Pats scheme is more like Walsh's WCO than Andy Reid's so-called WCO despite Reid's ties to Holmgren. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 Thanks for the posts. Erhardt-Perkins is very interesting after researching it a bit. One of the quotes that jumped out is one that I've heard from coaches but never knew the origins of: "Pass to score. Run to win." I started a thread many months ago arguing that most of the winning teams pass to get the lead and run to hold it. I watched the perfect Patriots in 2007 closely. BB had Brady in the shotgun almost entirely until he had a safe lead. In the fourth quarter, Brady would go under center and they'd run the ball mostly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashburn Dave Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 We don't run the WCO. Zorn says we do it but sure doesn't look like it to me. We run, run, pass. WCO is pass, pass, run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 We don't run the WCO. Zorn says we do it but sure doesn't look like it to me.We run, run, pass. WCO is pass, pass, run. Actually, the WCO, although a pass offense is used in conjunction with a running game to create a balance. It's purpose is to have the run open up the pass and the pass open the run. You could have a series of run, run, run. You could have one of pass, pass, pass. Or any mix in between. It's purpose to run what works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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