stevenaa Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 I don't know why anyone would enjoy killing anything. Need to kill is the only real good reason I can think of. You need to protect a bunch of livestock so you kill a wolf. You need to eat so you kill a deer. You need to keep animal populations low so you thin the ranks. I don't understand sport hunters. Yeah they eat the animal often and thats good, but whats the point of hunting deer or something to eat when you could buy food. Don't tell me it's free either, I know an avid hunter who spends a lot of money on his hobby so it all evens out, some people just feel big by ending an animal's life.My friend tried to explain to me the respect for the hunt and the animals one time. It made no sense to me, he was basically saying we respect these animals therefore they must die. Weird ****. Because hunting is enjoyable. Because the deer meat I feed my children is not pumped full of Steroids and Antibiotics. Because I can put deer meat on the table cheaper than beef, whether you think so or not. Because it tastes better. If the Wolves are at the desired sustainable population, it's not for me to say if someone else should be able to hunt them. I certianly would shoot a wolf if it was endangering my livestock. And I don't think ranchers should be asked to invest in very expensive, purpose bred dogs, many of which will be killed. Many of which will kill wolves in a much more gruesome fashion than being shot. Humans have been shooting predator animals to protect livestock for as long as there have been guns. This isn't something new. With that said, I don't believe in sport hunting. Eat what you kill. But that is my personal belief system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 What happens when they keep reproducing, and run out of food? Yeah, I don't think it would be better to not shoot any for fear of killing the alpha-male in a pack of 100 wolves. There is evidence that Wolves reach equilibrium with their environment. Biologists have noted that in lean years wolf mothers will have smaller litters, sometimes only one pup. Or none at all. Oppositte in boom years (in terms of food). And pups are very succeptible to death if not fed vigorously. But that is beside the point, we're not even close to that yet in terms of wolf population. ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadiSkins Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 If it is the alpha male/female In a hierarchical society the next member just assumes the role. When the alpha male dies of natural causes the pack doesnt go crazy, the next one just steps up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abdcskins Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 I don't understand human's obsession with hunting/killing animals. Just let them live, they were here before us. They have just as much right to live as us. Why would anyone want to kill a beautiful wolf? Hunters are awesome!(not) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 There is evidence that Wolves reach equilibrium with their environment. Biologists have noted that in lean years wolf mothers will have smaller litters, sometimes only one pup. Or none at all. Oppositte in boom years (in terms of food). And pups are very succeptible to death if not fed vigorously.But that is beside the point, we're not even close to that yet in terms of wolf population. ... That mechanism isn't going to get you to equilibrium unless your food source ONLY changes very slowly (as related to the life expectancy of a wolf) (which I'd be willing to bet a isn't the case). What that most likely does is give the female wolf the greatest probability of surviving lean times and over a life time leaving the maximum number of reproductive capable off spring. I will also comment on something you said above. Removing the most reproductively active organisms from a population is the MOST effecient manner to control a population. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 In a hierarchical society the next member just assumes the role. When the alpha male dies of natural causes the pack doesnt go crazy, the next one just steps up. I was under the impression it wasn't, I might be wrong. At the very least it would lead to inferior pups and a weaker pack. ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadiSkins Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 I don't understand human's obsession with hunting/killing animals. Just let them live, they were here before us. They have just as much right to live as us. Why would anyone want to kill a beautiful wolf? **** hunters, they are weak mother****ers who got bullied in school. Sorry for the cursing but that is how I feel. I was never bullied in school. Just sayin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enter Apotheosis Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 I was under the impression it wasn't, I might be wrong.At the very least it would lead to inferior pups and a weaker pack. ..... Again, not necessarily. Wolf packs are a tad bit more complex than "the strongest one is our leader" and it's entirely possible that another member of the pack is an equal or superior fit for the role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 I will also comment on something you said above. Removing the most reproductively active organisms from a population is the MOST effecient manner to control a population. Efficient means of population control and disastrous overall environmental impact (especially long term) can exist side by side. There is a mountain of scientific evidence that supports this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abdcskins Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 I was never bullied in school. Just sayin. Sorry man. Just out of curiosity, why do you hunt? And what do you hunt? What do you gain from hunting? Maybe I am being too harsh, so convince me. Deer hunting might be okay... *edit* Didn't see your last post. I guess population control is reasonable. Still, I am skeptical. Do we kill humans for population control? No, and we need it more than anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The 12th Commandment Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 I can't say I would ever hunt a predator it just doesn't seem right seeing as you can't eat most of them. Population control also includes not having so many they justify a strong argument against their existence by the ranching industry in particular. Out here in the west ag is big both in terms of economic contributions and political stroke so the realities of that have to be dealt with. abcd you're full of **** and obviously have never lived anywhere that wasn't a city or you'd get it. Life and death are part of the equation. Why can a predator kill but we can't? We're just animals too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonsieRB34 Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 Removing the most reproductively active organisms from a population is the MOST effecient manner to control a population. I could imagine you running around a field with a fishing net trying to catch a wolf, hold it down, and then cut off it's junk. I don't think efficient is the right word... it would cost more and take more time than the alternatives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadiSkins Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 Sorry man. Just out of curiosity, why do you hunt? And what do you hunt? What do you gain from hunting? Maybe I am being too harsh, so convince me. Deer hunting might be okay... *edit* Didn't see you last post. I guess population control is reasonable. Still, I am skeptical. Do we kill humans for population control? No, and we need it more than anyone. I agree with your edit. We do need it badly. Families with more than 2 kids aren't beneficial. Replace your spouse and yourself and thats good enough. If you feel the need for more, adopt kids that don't have parents and need the help. Wolves adopt too by the way (keeping it relevant to the thread) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abdcskins Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 I can't say I would ever hunt a predator it just doesn't seem right seeing as you can't eat most of them. Population control also includes not having so many they justify a strong argument against their existence by the ranching industry in particular. Out here in the west ag is big both in terms of economic contributions and political stroke so the realities of that have to be dealt with. abcd you're full of **** and obviously have never lived anywhere that wasn't a city or you'd get it. Life and death are part of the equation. Why can a predator kill but we can't? We're just animals too. True. Do we eat wolf though? No. Why are you being an *******?(I am going to delete my first post because I was harsh, but that is just how I feel). I have lived in the remote Swiss alps and lived in a village in Senegal for 4 months. Some people need to hunt and some people don't. There is plenty of useless killing, that is all I am going to say. Once again, I will ask: Do we kill humans for population control? No, and we need it more than anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnyderShrugged Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 Do we kill humans for population control? No, and we need it more than anyone. exhibit A: Abortion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abdcskins Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 exhibit A: Abortion Whoa, that is a whole new can of worms! But actually that is a good point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enter Apotheosis Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 exhibit A: Abortion Abortion is a matter of personal convenience, not population control. Intent is what matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnyderShrugged Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 Abortion is a matter of personal convenience, not population control. Intent is what matters. So you agree that the intent of hunters is also what matters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadiSkins Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 So you agree that the intent of hunters is also what matters? Yeah, my intent is not to kill without purpose. My reason is population control and management. It is healthy for other animals in the herd if populations are managed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnyderShrugged Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 Yeah, my intent is not to kill without purpose. My reason is population control and management. It is healthy for other animals in the herd if populations are managed. I think we totally agree! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enter Apotheosis Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 So you agree that the intent of hunters is also what matters? I strongly dislike being in a position where we have to actively monitor and control populations to begin with. That said, intent does make a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abdcskins Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 Abortion is a matter of personal convenience, not population control. Intent is what matters. Also a good point. When a woman gets raped and gets pregnant, she gets an abortion because of emotional reasons, not to keep the population low. Hunting is mostly to kill, period. However, there are those who hunt to eat and population control(which I still am not convinced it necessary). But if deer are running onto the road in the middle of Virginia or wherever causing cars to hit them, then I can see that being necessary(kind of). Killing for sport is pure savagery though, and those people get no respect from me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnyderShrugged Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 I strongly dislike being in a position where we have to actively monitor and control populations to begin with. That said, intent does make a difference. Hunting as a form of conservation has been around for a long time. In fact other forms of culling herds also have been the primary form of livestock and wildlife management for centuries. I think that it is very rare for hunters to simply want to hunt to kill. At least in my experience in fraternizing with hunters groups in the 5 states I've resided in so far. maybe its different elsewhere, but i doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadiSkins Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 I think we totally agree! Glad someone in here agrees with me. Sucks when people are trying to make you feel like crap for doing something that people who have studied wildlife tell you is healthy for the animals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnyderShrugged Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 Also a good point. When a woman gets raped and gets pregnant, she gets an abortion because of emotional reasons, not to keep the population low.Hunting is mostly to kill, period. However, there are those who hunt to eat and population control(which I still am not convinced it necessary). But if deer are running onto the road in the middle of Virginia or wherever causing cars to hit them, then I can see that being necessary(kind of). Killing for sport is pure savagery though, and those people get no respect from me. less than 1 tenth of a percent of all abortions are for rape or incest reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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