Desmond Clark/Greg Olsen = Chris Cooley/Fred Davis?

[redskins0756]

I'm watching the Bears/Broncos game right now and I think the Bears have done a very effective job of utilizing their two tight ends. Instead of putting both of them on the line of scrimmage and sacrificing a receiver spot, they put one TE in as a FB and motion him out into the WR spot.

Would the Redskins benefit from doing such a package?

I think the problem with Fred Davis (along with his fumbles and inconsistent sleeping patterns) is that he hasn't had enough opportunities with this offense as a receiver. I think keeping Cooley on the LOS and motioning Davis out into the receiver slot or vice versa could create a lot of mismatches. Not to mention if we can get Portis going, it would make our playaction much more effective because teams will not only have to worry about the deep threat of Moss and underneath throw to Cooley but also the athleticism of Davis.

Davis and Cooley are too athletic for a LB to cover them and CB's are too small to take them down. Add in Moss and Thomas/Kelly on the outside and you have, what I believe, is one of the most formidable passing attacks in the NFC. Here is a breakdown of Chicago's TE's and our TE's:

Chicago

Desmond Clark - 6'3", 249 lbs.

Greg Olsen - 6'5", 255 lbs.

Washington

Chris Cooley - 6'3", 255 lbs.

Fred Davis - 6'4", 255 lbs.

Besides Olsen's 1" height advantage over Davis, both sets of TE's are nearly identical in terms of size.

So what do you guys think about this?

[Veretax]

I think Olsen is a better pass catcher than Clark, but not sure about blocking, and yeah I think on goal lines subbing in one of these guys perhaps with Sellars as the tail back could be VERY interesting.

[Hunter_R]

I wouldn't mind more Davis and less Sellers.

[redskins0756]

Clark has caught over 300 passes in his career so he is more than adequate as a pass catcher.

I think if the Sellers contract situation doesn't get worked out or he gets cut this scenario could become more likely.

[HLF]

I like the idea. Im watching the game too and Cutler is utilizing the hell out of Greg Olson. Our package could look even better because I believe we have better wr's then they do.

[redskins0756]

I like the idea. Im watching the game too and Cutler is utilizing the hell out of Greg Olson. Our package could look even better because I believe we have better wr's then they do.

Exactly. With Chicago their starting receivers are a guy who isn't even a true receiver and an inexperienced wideout who's only claim to fame is playing with Jay Cutler at Vandy. So as a result teams pretty much know either they are going to hand it off to Forte or throw it to Clark/Olsen.

With us we have the duo of Cooley/Davis, a true receiver and deep threat in Santana Moss, two 2nd round picks that look poised for breakout seasons, and a running back who has solidified himself as one of the best in the league. The two things that will make this not work is the playcalling of Jim Zorn or the play of Jason Campbell. With Campbell's impressive performance Friday I think all eyes go onto Jim Zorn this season and whether he can effectively utilize the offensive talent of this team.

[SIXX99]

After Davis doing nothing last year and Cooley only getting one TD, I think anything we can do to utilize tight ends more will help this team. Also, we have a better overall offensive unit than the Bears so we could probably do very well.

[ABSTRACT]

Camp has already confirmed 2 and 3 TE sets will be implemented in the game. We have 3 very capable TEs to improve our offense even more.

Do not bash me or laugh but I seriously believe we will have a top 3 NFC offense this year.

-----Davis+Cooley+Yoder+Thomas+Kelly+Mitchell+ARE+Moss+{Hackett?}+Sellers-----

[SIXX99]

Camp has already confirmed 2 and 3 TE sets will be implemented in the game. We have 3 very capable TEs to improve our offense even more.

Do not bash me or laugh but I seriously believe we will have a top 3 NFC offense this year.

-----Davis+Cooley+Yoder+Thomas+Kelly+Mitchell+ARE+Moss+{Hackett?}+Sellers-----

Drop Hackett from that list and add Betts and CP and then you have a monstrous group off players (on paper). The only variables with this is how the offensive line holds up and the play of the QB.

[ABSTRACT]

Drop Hackett from that list and add Betts and CP and then you have a monstrous group off players (on paper). The only variables with this is how the offensive line holds up and the play of the QB.

I guess I can drop Hackett even though he has experience with Zorn and his WCO and he can be our James Thrash but maybe he coul dhave lost his step.

....but I will NOT keep Betts over a Marcus Mason. Betts drops the ball at the worst moments and frequently. Mason and Aldridge need to be the backups for CP.

[redskins fan for life]

Chicago uses so many two tight end sets because they have no good receivers. Like, at all.

[[[ghost]]]

Sellers has solid hands as well, so its not like we're lacking a receiver at the FB slot.

But to use Sellers as a pure blocker and Davis as a catching option isn't outrageous. Though if I'm the defense, I can predict what we're gonna do based on the FB then.

[Hunter_R]

Camp has already confirmed 2 and 3 TE sets will be implemented in the game. We have 3 very capable TEs to improve our offense even more.

Do not bash me or laugh but I seriously believe we will have a top 3 NFC offense this year.

-----Davis+Cooley+Yoder+Thomas+Kelly+Mitchell+ARE+Moss+{Hackett?}+Sellers-----

I just don't see that happening. At least you said NFC instead of NFL.

Other NFC teams with powerhouse offenses:

Packers: Aaron Rodgers. All they need.

Saints: Drew Brees. Ditto'.

Cardinals: Warner, Boldin, Fitzgerald.

Seahawks: Hasselbeck is back.

Falcons: Matt Ryan and Michael Turner.

I'm going to stop there, but that's because I don't want to list just about every team in the NFC.

Fun fact: Last season only the Rams scored less points, and 5 had less yards/g (and, as mentioned above, the Seahawks got their qb back. The Bears snagged Cutler, to boot).

I don't see how they make the jump to one of the worst offenses to top 3.

[gutlead74]

1)we already do as you suggest.

2)Cooley is the move guy.

3)Why in the hell would you not want Sellers as a FB? see the link in my sig.

[redskins0756]

1)we already do as you suggest.

2)Cooley is the move guy.

3)Why in the hell would you not want Sellers as a FB? see the link in my sig.

1.) No we don't. They put both TE's on the LOS and what I'm proposing is moving Davis or Cooley into the backfield and motioning them into a receiver position with the other TE staying on the LOS.

2.) Certainly, but why would we draft Fred Davis in the 2nd round if we didn't think he could contribute significantly to the offense? Greg Olsen is the main guy in Chicago but that doesn't stop Desmond Clark from also contributing.

3.) Because it creates mismatches with Davis the backfield or Cooley and then motioning them into a receiver spot. Also Sellers making the team isn't a guarantee (believe it or not), this contract situation may have soured his position in Washington. And drafting essentially another fullback in Eddie Williams only furthers this.

[21forlyfe]

Davis is our special weapon!

[Skins4SB]

When did Davis come on vs. NE? I saw he caught a ball for 9 yds, but I must have missed that.

[theboomking]

I love Chris Cooley, he is a heady guy, has a great feel for the game, and is a fierce competitor. What I'm hoping for is that Davis comes on and makes Cooley expendable. Cooley caught a lot of balls last year, but only scored one TD, and doesn't really dictate coverage. If there is no CBA, Cooley could probably net us Peppers in a trade with Carolina, who have been loathe to cough up the cash for a contract. Cooley could also be packaged with our #1 to move up and try to get Russell Okung.

[Going Commando]

Drop Hackett from that list and add Betts and CP and then you have a monstrous group off players (on paper). The only variables with this is how the offensive line holds up and the play of the QB.

A monstrous group of skill position players. The offensive line is still unimpressive outside of the left side, and I don't know what to make of Randy Thomas any more. That's also assuming Kelly and Thomas are as good as they were projected to be. I've been excited about our offensive skill positions since the day after the '08 draft. I'd love to see them start to play up to their potential this year.

[Going Commando]

I love Chris Cooley, he is a heady guy, has a great feel for the game, and is a fierce competitor. What I'm hoping for is that Davis comes on and makes Cooley expendable. Cooley caught a lot of balls last year, but only scored one TD, and doesn't really dictate coverage. If there is no CBA, Cooley could probably net us Peppers in a trade with Carolina, who have been loathe to cough up the cash for a contract. Cooley could also be packaged with our #1 to move up and try to get Russell Okung.

There's a human element to any deal that would involve Cooley that you have to consider. Whatever player was acquired in a deal that involved Cooley would have to be phenomenal for us or else fans would mutiny. Cooley is far and away the team's most popular and marketable player and personally, I want him to finish his career here with us no matter what opportunities came along.

As for your specific ideas, they are interesting ideas but I wouldn't trade for Peppers because he's a right end approaching 30. the potential gain for us doesn't seem all that great in that deal now that we have Orakpo/Carter to hold our RE position down. The chances of us dealing for Peppers seem remote.

As for Okung, well he is a spectacularly great prospect. I think he's as good a prospect as Joe Thomas was. If not then he's just barely below him. He's a better prospect than both Jake Long and Jason Smith were, and I think he could easily go #1 overall. I'm excited to watch that OK state offense this season because, even with the loss of Pettigrew, it is chock full of early round players. And Okung is the best player there.

Even still, I would much rather just trade draft picks than Cooley. I'd give up a future first before Cooley.

[MustangSteve]

I'm watching the Bears/Broncos game right now and I think the Bears have done a very effective job of utilizing their two tight ends. Instead of putting both of them on the line of scrimmage and sacrificing a receiver spot, they put one TE in as a FB and motion him out into the WR spot.

Would the Redskins benefit from doing such a package?

They would on a screen play, it would give us bigger blockers to clear the path, I think it would be effective.

On 3rd and long, no. It would take away the speed of our WR's.

[nebster21]

Other NFC teams with powerhouse offenses:

Packers: Aaron Rodgers. All they need.

Saints: Drew Brees. Ditto'.

Cardinals: Warner, Boldin, Fitzgerald.

Seahawks: Hasselbeck is back.

Falcons: Matt Ryan and Michael Turner.

Packers I need to see it again this year

Saints dead on.

Cardinals dead on.

Seahawks I do not think he is back.

Falcons Ryan needs to do it more than just one year.

[HRNY4ZRNY]

I just think that the fact that we have these options now is awesome. Vinnys draft just might payoff!

[theboomking]

There's a human element to any deal that would involve Cooley that you have to consider. Whatever player was acquired in a deal that involved Cooley would have to be phenomenal for us or else fans would mutiny. Cooley is far and away the team's most popular and marketable player and personally, I want him to finish his career here with us no matter what opportunities came along.

As for your specific ideas, they are interesting ideas but I wouldn't trade for Peppers because he's a right end approaching 30. the potential gain for us doesn't seem all that great in that deal now that we have Orakpo/Carter to hold our RE position down. The chances of us dealing for Peppers seem remote.

As for Okung, well he is a spectacularly great prospect. I think he's as good a prospect as Joe Thomas was. If not then he's just barely below him. He's a better prospect than both Jake Long and Jason Smith were, and I think he could easily go #1 overall. I'm excited to watch that OK state offense this season because, even with the loss of Pettigrew, it is chock full of early round players. And Okung is the best player there.

Even still, I would much rather just trade draft picks than Cooley. I'd give up a future first before Cooley.

I realize that we won't trade Cooley or Davis for that matter. I don't think the FO would get rid of one of the more marketable players on the team. Since I'm playing fantsy GM however, there is no real human element. I also don't think that there is any chance the FO would trade for Peppers. I do think that if he was available as a FA, we would pursue him. Peppers plays L\RDE, but has great size, plays the run well, and would be spectacular as the LDE across from Orakpo and next to Haynesworth. At age 30, Peppers probably has a solid 5 years left with at least 8-10 sacks per year. Upsized DE's tend to be productive into their mid to late 30's.

I guess my only real point in the trade proposal was to suggest that a 29year old DE who could be a borderline HOF type player, has more potential value to a team than a 27yo perennial pro-bowl alternate who averages less than 6 TD's a year, and is backed up by a younger, potentially more explosive player. I'd make the same argument for a left tackle.

I know it might seem that I am overly fixated on the D-line, when we have already invested a ton into it. My thinking is as follows. On every other unit of a team, except maybe O-line, as you invest more you get decreasing returns. Having 2 great TE's, 3 great RB's, 4 great WR's is only so helpful because there are only so many balls to go around. You are better off investing some of those resources elsewhere.

On the D-line however, the opposite is true. One elite player can easily be neutralized by double or even triple teams. The more elite players you add to the line however, the more it benefits the production of each player. You can't double team every player on the D-line. Not only that, but unlike the O-line which relies on cohesion and can't sub out players to rest, a defensive line becomes more productive because you can platoon those players in and punish a fatigued offense, rather than having your backups play only in case of injury as they do on the O-line.

Part of the reason the Orakpo pick was so great, is that you already have a potential all time great at DT like Haynesworth and those two players complement each other. We are in the unique position, if Haynesworth and Orakpo are as good as billed, to build an all time great D-line and defense. If you have Haynesworth, Orakpo, Jarmon, Carter, and Griffin and there are two unrestricted FA available of the caliber of Peppers and Merriman, how can you not fantasize about the possibilitiesof adding one.

Back to reality, where I think the team would be much more likely to make a play for a LT like Okung. We'll probably be drafting in the 20's however and Okung will likely go top 5. Imagine having going right from the Samuels era to the Okung era. Won't happen, but a guy can have his O-line and D-line dreams can't he?