Google: Overhauling health-care system tops agenda at annual meeting of Canada's doct

[SnyderShrugged]

No, it proves my point.

They went into nursing. In Canada. You think they wouldn't have enrolled in our Canadian nursing programs unless they KNEW they were going to get offers down in the US. You think that's the typical plan for a Canadian nursing student?

You think that if the US offered nurses the same wages as Canada... that they wouldn't have become nurses to begin with?

I can't believe the amount of smugness I'm seeing at a $35/hour job to START... with full benefits and a pension... and a HUGE DEMAND.

Really... that's underpaid to you?

My God... I thought there were was a recession with a lot of people out of work and living on their credit cards. Guess not.

It's not up to you or me to judge their level of pay. Thats an individual decision.

Obviously, the individual nurses in Canada find the pay there lacking in your socialized system and are turning to the US (which still leaves much to be desired, especially if we revert to single payer) for better pay they feel they deserve.

the clincher is that there must be employers who agree with their assessment in order for that to happen.

Pay is driven by demand (or should be).

[Burgold]

Nobody can force you to double and triple shift.

True, but if there is a dire shortage. You certainly can be pressured from both intrinsically and extrinsic sources. Which is why burnout is a danger with nurses as it is with teachers

Teaching is a great career. They get paid well... and they have a PHENOMENAL pension plan too.

Again, not too many careers that will offer what teaching does.

Pension plans are getting worse each year. I agree that teaching is a great profession. I taught for a number of years before I left, but once I left I never turned back and never was really tempted to go back.

As a special educator, I had so many roles to fulfill. I had to prepare legal documents, administer psychometric tests, chair meetings, go to court, prepare lesson plans, adapt the lesson plans of general educators, teach parents how to advocate and be advocates for them, teach, counsel, and administer... generally, with minimal or no support.

Was that worth thirty or forty thousand a year? It's impossible to say what is worth what? But the emotional, physical, and intellectual expenditure of doing it they way I considered right was immense. You never had a moment off or were off-duty. Even at home you were constantly working, revising, grading, writing, developng, reading the latest research and theories.

So, when I hear that many teachers left the profession to become miners because the pay was better. It doesn't surprise me.

[Thiebear]

they arnt saying just CASH but pointing to Alberta as an example.

1. Salary

Nurses want to be paid better. Right now they are pointing to nursing wages in Alberta as a goal. The unions also want higher premiums for weekend and overnight shifts. They say these premiums would attract younger nurses, leaving older nurses to fill day shifts. The issue has grown in importance as the average age of nurses and the job's stress level have increased.

[artmonkforHOF]

Consider the source, the Canadian Medical Association, which is basically a doctor's union, saying they think it would be good to privatize some helathcare, which would mean a doctor's income would not be capped by the current healthcare system. Of course they are going to push for it, and in the process, try to exagerate the problems with the existing system to help their cause.

Despite what that crazy lady "Shona" has been telling you people on your TV's , our healthcare system works, might not be the best system in the world, but name me a system that provides care for over 30million people and employs 2-3million that does not have it's problems.

As for that Shona chick, saying she was told she would have to wait 6-12 weeks for an MRI, then she went to Arizona, and got into surgery in a week, that chick is not only nuts, be apparently impatient and stupid. Her Doctor told her the wait for an MRI COULD be 6-12 weeks, but she never asked her doctor to make the appointment. What happens here, is doctors put in requests for things like an MRI, and the Ministry of Health schedules the appointments, critical patients or conditions get top priority. Had she made her appointment, and her doctor noted how urgent the MRI was, she most likely would have got into an MRI within a week. But Shona heard "6 to 12 weeks" said screw that and decided to go to Arizona for treatment, which is fine, if you have the $, go ahead and waste it (her bill came to $80,000 US, for procedures that would have cost our health care system approx $35,000 to provide). But now she is suing our government trying to get them to pay for her healthcare bill. The chick is nuts.

I am not opposed to privatizing some things in health care, heck I went to upstate NY one time to get an MRI myself for a MS screen, but you need to have some sort of socialized medical care in order to get costs under control. If you break your arm, it should cost the same for X-rays, setting the arm, putting on the cast and out patient care no matter if you break it in L.A., New York, El Paso or Fargo. Once that is set, then let guys branch off for MRI's, or other medical testing, but regulate what can be charged (maybe a $"x" for a certain test, and $"x"+50% for immediate service). That way people pay a fair rate for medical services they need, and those who can afford it can get prompt treatment.

[Baculus]

This guy suggests a few band-aids that I support that can be done w/o disruption to current system.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB20001424052970204251404574342170072865070.html

Combine that with a expanded free/reduced cost clinic system and the major problems are addressed.

That's been one of my thoughts if the US doesn't implement a universal sort of health coverage system: increase funding to free clinics or increase their presence to areas that do not have them.

[Baculus]

Consider the source, the Canadian Medical Association, which is basically a doctor's union, saying they think it would be good to privatize some helathcare, which would mean a doctor's income would not be capped by the current healthcare system. Of course they are going to push for it, and in the process, try to exagerate the problems with the existing system to help their cause.

Despite what that crazy lady "Shona" has been telling you people on your TV's , our healthcare system works, might not be the best system in the world, but name me a system that provides care for over 30million people and employs 2-3million that does not have it's problems.

Most of the Canadians that I've heard talk about their system, even when discussing its problems, would not trade it for the US system. Even in this thread's article, the doctors were not talking about dismantling the Canadian Medicare system.

[jbooma]

Wait a minute according to many on this board we need to copy Canada because it is the best system :chair:

[PeterMP]

For those that seem to think the only problems w/ Canada's health care system is medical professionals mad that they don't make enough and managing the buearacracy, I have bad news for you. You have issues controlling costs too. Just as an example:

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=2704416

"For these analyses, we used volume and expenditure data related to prescriptions for cardiovascular medications obtained from IMS Health Canada’s CompuScript Audit® database for the period 1996–2006."

"The use of cardiovascular medications increased sharply in Canada during the study period, with related costs rising by over 200% during this period to surpass $5 billion in 2006. Changes in population demographics, risk factors and inflation appeared to account for about two-thirds of the observed growth in expenditures. Use of newer medication classes (statins, angiotensin-receptor blockers, angiotensin-converting-enzyme inhibitors), for which patented brand name medications predominate, accounted for almost one-third of the cost increases. Interprovincial differences in total expenditures for cardiovascular drugs portrayed a descending gradient from east to west, with greatest variability for the newer drug classes."

I'm not saying the situation there isn't better than here, but if you stick your head in the sand and pretend there isn't an issue, you are going to be in for a shock.

[Baculus]

Wait a minute according to many on this board we need to copy Canada because it is the best system :chair:

Just because some doctors in their system want to improve it doesn't mean we shouldn't learn from it. That just doesn't make any sense.

[Baculus]

I'm not saying the situation there isn't better than here, but if you stick your head in the sand and pretend there isn't an issue, you are going to be in for a shock.

Yes, but either way, they are still better at controlling costs.

There is NO perfect health care system, but that doesn't mean we should ignore the success of other systems. That is absolutely foolish, if you ask me. Spending 50% less while achieving lower morality rates, longer lifespans, and more coverage is worthy of our study.

[PeterMP]

Yes, but either way, they are still better at controlling costs.

There is NO perfect health care system, but that doesn't mean we should ignore the success of other systems. That is absolutely foolish, if you ask me. Spending 50% less while achieving lower morality rates, longer lifespans, and more coverage is worthy of our study.

Our study ABSOLUTELY. Our imitation, I'm not sure.

[artmonkforHOF]

Most of the Canadians that I've heard talk about their system, even when discussing its problems, would not trade it for the US system. Even in this thread's article, the doctors were not talking about dismantling the Canadian Medicare system.

exactly, the system is not perfect, but it is a great base to have.

[Predicto]

I can guarantee you this:

Whatever Canada decides to do, it will NOT be adopting the expensive cluster**** of a system that we currently have in the US. Not a single country in the world wants that.