Mike & Mike: Justin Tuck on Jason Campbell

[djbubba4life]

No one will ever say that. If I were the Skins, I'd try to make a trade for Boldin. I'm not a fan of JC's, but it would help to have a legitimate #1 reciever.

Your username is perfect for that comment. :doh:

[MythMan]

I think alot of people have been coming up with alot of amorphous reasons to dislike Campbell and i all started when the Cutler talks began. Was everyone at the middle of this season saying Jason is the problem? Hell no. He was an MVP candidate through the first 8 weeks of the season!

Then he starts getting sacked and slammed all over the place when our decrepid offensive line starts breaking down and still the entire redskins world wasn't calling for campbell's head. Every game we were saying "our line is awful!" You watched that Pittsburgh game, the baltimore game (Geisinger out on an island against Suggs :doh:) the second dallas game, both Giants games. That line was getting eaten alive and everyone saw it. Snyderatto starts looking at Cutler and we all start saying it was Jason failing in the clutch? WHEN? Tell me when last year, he fell apart in the clutch or lost control of the huddle?

If I remember correctly, Portis was on the radio calling his coach a "genius". Cambpell was saying all the right things while getting knocked on his ass every play before he even got out of his drop.

His recievers? Anyone? anyone? Bueller? Bueller? . .. . hey were awful. Everyone was dissappointed to watch Deshaun Jackson torching people and running back punts for Tds every week while the guys we picked above him weren't smart enough to beat out thrash and randle el. 2 Yard punt returns after 10 minutes of dance moves. No separation from the secondary except Moss for a while. When they rolled the coverage to moss, packed th box against a terrible o-line, we fell apart. Samuels goes down, its just over!

Coincidentally, at the same time that Campbell apparrently suddenly couldn't play QB anymore, our diva running back went from 125 yards a game to 25 yards a game.

Then snyderatto, falls in love with sanchez and it intensifies. "he can't control the huddle", "he isn't a vocal leader" and a bunch of other things that you literally can't prove. Its just a vague complaint about the guy. What I saw was a guy who was working out with his team the day his idiot owner was shopping for his replacement and then saying he would handle it professionally regardless and did!

How we don't owe this guy his contract year is absolutely unbelievable to me. His second year in the same system since he got to washington! He deserves this year. He also deserves a right tackle.

Yup. It amazes me how people can just make up stuff and state it like its a fact

[SkinsTerps26]

the honest truth is our wide receivers suck. period

[helptheSKINS]

This is as everyone already knows a make or break season for JC. I certainly hope he turns into the QB so many of us think he can be. If he doesn't then there will be a new QB next year competing with CB.

[THE OUTSIDER]

Your username is perfect for that comment. :doh:

Are you saying that our receiving crew is good?

[Spitfire71]

Are you saying that our receiving crew is good?

I think it's good enough. We've got to give Thomas and Kelly a chance to develop. JC did put up 3200 yards last year, which isn't really a bad season by any standard. The problem with our corps seems to be staying healthy, frankly. Santana's top half of the league when his hamstring cooperates. If Devin Thomas develops and manages to grab that #2 role this year, it suddenly makes our offense a little bit scarier. ARE doesn't do too badly against #2 corners, but he would absolutely annihilate people if he was playing against nickel guys every time out.

And then there's guys like Mitchell, who are long shots, but give us that size we need.

I like our corps this year a lot more than I liked it going into '07, when our #2, #3, and #4 positions were a constant rotation of stop-gaps.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I'm sure leading his team to an undefeated season during his senior year and getting the MVP Award at the 2005 Sugar Bowl versus VaTech in a 16-13 win didn't give JC any confidence in clutch situations.

I'm sure picking out one game doesn't disprove my point. I watched that game from start to finish and he made a couple of very nice plays.

However, to say he "led" Auburn to an undefeated season is a bit of a stretch. Additionally, it has nothing to do with the point I was attempting to make: Colt Brennan carried an offense and a team. Therefore, any success or failure was mostly attributed to him. That has never happened to Campbell.

I just think that can breed the intangibles that some people look for in a starting QB.

I wasn't meaning to bash Jason, so the defenders can stop being so sensitive.

[Oldfan]

TD_washingtonredskins: Anyway, just something I've been thinking about and been waiting to post in a Campbell thread since I didn't think it deserved its own!

While your post made an interesting observation comparing Campbell and Brennan, I have to agree with...

Brotherz: I think alot of people have been coming up with alot of amorphous reasons to dislike Campbell...

...although I disagree when he says:

...and it all started when the Cutler talks began.

This didn't just begin after the Cutler episode.

I groan whenever posters in this forum argue football topics with criticisms using vague terms like leadership, chemistry, intensity, motivation, confidence and so on, because they're making claims that can't be proved or disproved, using terms which cannot even be defined with any accuracy.

Over the years, it has become apparent to me that these vague claims have a positive direction AFTER a player or team has had success and a negative bent AFTER the player or team has failed. I've never heard anyone say anything like, "If only Tom Brady had command of the huddle, he'd be so much better."

[DGREENHULK]

:doh:If you knew it sounded bad, then why did you bother posting it?

Did Romo sits to pee do something to your family to wish something like that for him? Damn.

A light falling on Romo sits to pee would be the same as Orakpo lowering the boom on him in a 3rd and long...as long as he gets hit. I don't care.

And the only thing Romo sits to pee did to me or my family was playing for the Dallas Cowboys...

[Glockypoo]

I know this sounds really bad but...Why couldn't Romo sits to pee been at that Rookie Mini Camp....

I know I know heartless right ....but somewhere deep down I would have liked to see Romo sits to pee buried under one of those lights...kinda like the wicked witch under that house in OZ....I kid I kid...

Come on man, not even remotely funny. A man was paralyzed in that accident. Grow up.

[paintrain]

I know this sounds really bad but...Why couldn't Romo sits to pee been at that Rookie Mini Camp....

I know I know heartless right ....but somewhere deep down I would have liked to see Romo sits to pee buried under one of those lights...kinda like the wicked witch under that house in OZ....I kid I kid...

You're classless dude. Grow up.

[Skinsfor4]

But has anyone from any other team actually came out and said

"ah he sucks and the team will never win with him."?

Didnt they try and trade him to any if not every other team.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

While your post made an interesting observation comparing Campbell and Brennan, I have to agree with...

...although I disagree when he says:

This didn't just begin after the Cutler episode.

I groan whenever posters in this forum argue football topics with criticisms using vague terms like leadership, chemistry, intensity, motivation, confidence and so on, because they're making claims that can't be proved or disproved, using terms which cannot even be defined with any accuracy.

Over the years, it has become apparent to me that these vague claims have a positive direction AFTER a player or team has had success and a negative bent AFTER the player or team has failed. I've never heard anyone say anything like, "If only Tom Brady had command of the huddle, he'd be so much better."

I don't dislike Campbell. I've stated in other threads that I'm rooting for him. I wasn't even necessarily attempting to compare him only to Brennan. I just was thinking of potential explanations for why a QB with his predigree might not have that "it" factor (if he actually never acquires it).

No motive other than to debate the points I made.

[Oldfan]

I don't dislike Campbell. I've stated in other threads that I'm rooting for him. I wasn't even necessarily attempting to compare him only to Brennan. I just was thinking of potential explanations for why a QB with his predigree might not have that "it" factor (if he actually never acquires it).

No motive other than to debate the points I made.

I wasn't questioning your motives.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I wasn't questioning your motives.

Cool. Then do you agree/disagree that the more "sheltered" college career of Campbell could ultimately stunt his growth?

You agreed with another poster that people are looking for things to dislike about Campbell when, in actuality, all I'm doing is looking for an explanation as to why the light hasn't come on for the 27-year old.

When push comes to shove, who do you think would perform better in the exact same game situations, Campbell or Brennan?

[DCDiesel44]

Make or break year for Campbell. I feel like I've said that over 100 times this offseason, which is why I'm dying for regular season to get here!

[Oldfan]

Cool. Then do you agree/disagree that the more "sheltered" college career of Campbell could ultimately stunt his growth?

I'd say it's highly unlikely.

I think it comes down to ability, beginning with such basic things as the ability the throw a football and the ability to make quick decisions in the face of a pass rush.

You agreed with another poster that people are looking for things to dislike about Campbell when, in actuality, all I'm doing is looking for an explanation as to why the light hasn't come on for the 27-year old.

My fault. In your case, I was really agreeing more with his objection to vague claims. Although he is correct, as a general rule, that when fans dislike a player, they concoct vague arguments against him.

When push comes to shove, who do you think would perform better in the exact same game situations, Campbell or Brennan?

I don't know. Heath Schuler looked like he had Troy Aikman ability to me when I first saw him throw a football. But, Trent Green said recently that the NFL game just never slowed down for Heath. That's not something that is predictable.

Evidently, there's a college "it" factor and an NFL it factor.

[Superbowl Mohawk]

Hail Fellas! First off let me say Justin Tuck has been in my store and was a cool, classy dude! I was wearing a redskin shirt and asked him for a pick which he said ok to and snarled in the pic, super funny!

To be fair to Campbell we have to remember that he has had a new boss, or a new way to do things, and/or new lingo of calling and memorizing plays, every year. Like a 700 page book of plays!!!! He's a football QB, not an Einstein. So let's give him the benefit of the doubt. Gibbs saw something in him so who am I to disagree.

It's his second year in the same system, same coach, same plays, same lingo etc. So we must know that he will improve his game and the players around him should be better as well. This team should improve on offense considerably. We should be putting up anywhere between 17-24 points a game, almost every game. Our field positions will be drastically improved and hopefully our punter situation will be settled.

It's been a LONG road since Snyder bought the team. Yet, I think we are finally on the path that will bring us closer to where we belong. Among the best teams in the league.

[rhyno]

:doh:If you knew it sounded bad, then why did you bother posting it?

Did Romo sits to pee do something to your family to wish something like that for him? Damn.

He stole my gf;)

[TD_washingtonredskins]

No. I think it comes down to ability, beginning with such basic things as the ability the throw a football and the ability to make quick decisions in the face of a pass rush.

My fault. In your case, I was really agreeing more with his objection to vague claims. Although he is correct, as a general rule, that when fans dislike a player, they concoct vague arguments against him.

I don't know. Heath Schuler looked like he had Troy Aikman ability to me when I first saw him throw a football. But, Trent Green said recently that the NFL game just never slowed down for Heath. That's not something that is predictable.

Evidently, there's a college "it" factor and an NFL it factor.

That all makes sense. I just really hope Campbell gets it this year. I'd love to have the same guy under center for several years running. If he doesn't pan out...let's go Colt!

[Spitfire71]

Cool. Then do you agree/disagree that the more "sheltered" college career of Campbell could ultimately stunt his growth?

You agreed with another poster that people are looking for things to dislike about Campbell when, in actuality, all I'm doing is looking for an explanation as to why the light hasn't come on for the 27-year old.

When push comes to shove, who do you think would perform better in the exact same game situations, Campbell or Brennan?

I think that his pro career has been sheltered and stunted his growth. First of all, he got no playing time whatsoever with the first team in '05. Then, they brought in Saunders - which might have been, seeing as they had just come off a playoff year, a situation of trying to fix something that wasn't truly broken. Cue setback number one. Second, Gibbs as well as the rest of the fans could see halfway through the season that Mark Brunell was not going to match last year's production, and yet it took forever for Campbell to be put into the starting role. Thank God that Joe Gibbs resigned - nothing against the guy, but he's a little bit like the original Jon Gruden in that he hates playing quarterbacks and receivers under the age of 30. Cue Zorn -another offensive system, and a couple of new receivers. The new receivers that were brought in had a hard time staying healthy, and the line totally wore out on him by about week 10, but he still managed to put together a season that wasn't that bad.

I think that this (the whole Cutler/Sanchez thing notwithstanding) is going to be the first year where Campbell hasn't had to overcome some tremendous obstacle to his development. Same coaching staff and offense, probably most of the same receiving corps, the OL is going to feature our best guys one way or another, ad now that Cutler's in Chicago and Sanchez is in New York, Campbell knows that he's going to get one last chance to prove himself. All we need from him is to throw a few more touchdowns. As much as I loved the fact that he went something like 10 regular season games without a pick, he just needs to get into the red zone and say, "**** it, we've got a great defense if this ball goes the other way," make a decision, and gun that sucker in there because he's got the arm to do it. I think that Gibbs and Gibbs' mentality affected the players. You have to risk failure in order to succeed. Joe Gibbs was a very low-risk, 'mistake-free' kind of coach - which works for a lot of other positions, but not for a young quarterback trying to learn to be the franchise guy. Campbell's not the kind of guy prone to a Delhomme-like meltdown - he won't be making horrific decisions left and right and forcing his way to 3 or 4 picks in a game. I think, with this second year of the system, and knowing the playbook, he won't be afraid to take a few risks. That might result in him throwing maybe 12 picks this year instead of 7, but he'll probably end up throwing more TDs and throwing for more yards, too.

It might be a stretch, but I'd say 4,000 yards isn't unrealistic.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I think that this (the whole Cutler/Sanchez thing notwithstanding) is going to be the first year where Campbell hasn't had to overcome some tremendous obstacle to his development...It might be a stretch, but I'd say 4,000 yards isn't unrealistic.

I think all of us are hoping to see this from Campbell!

[Oldfan]

That all makes sense. I just really hope Campbell gets it this year. I'd love to have the same guy under center for several years running. If he doesn't pan out...let's go Colt!

I think Jason has limited potential in the WCO, and we'll probably see him at near his best this season. I think he's a mid-level starter that I'd want to replace with a grade A guy whenever the opportunity presents itself.

If Jim Zorn thinks that Colt has grade A potential, I doubt whether Dan and Vinny would have made the bid for Cutler. They're not fools. Zorn could be wrong, of course, but he's far better qualified to judge than me or Dan or Vinny.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I think Jason has limited potential in the WCO, and we'll probably see him at near his best this season. I think he's a mid-level starter that I'd want to replace with a grade A guy whenever the opportunity presents itself.

If Jim Zorn thinks that Colt has grade A potential, I doubt whether Dan and Vinny would have made the bid for Cutler. They're not fools. Zorn could be wrong, of course, but he's far better qualified to judge than me or Dan or Vinny.

I agree with all of that as well. I only cling to the hope that Campbell or Colt does have the potential and the bid for Cutler was more about star power...

I don't put much stock in that hope, but I cling to it nonetheless.

[redman]

He does...no doubt. However, he still sometimes appears to be missing something.

I think of it like this (and forgive me for comparing our 2 young QBs as people have done in about 100 other threads)...

Campbell is a better physical QB than Brennan, no doubt. He has a better arm, better mobility, better measurables, and even played in a better conference vs. better competition in college.

However, Brennan was THE MAN at Hawaii. In crunch time, he took the offense on his shoulders and took it upon himself to make a play/win the game. Campbell, despite tougher competition, wasn't even the biggest threat on his own team. He had 2 great RBs and was probably only asked to do something clutch a handful of times at Auburn.

Now, what that translates to, I don't really know. However, I can't imagine that Campbell is more sure of himself with games on the line than Colt is given he's had less experience in those situations. Also, I would guess it's easier to "command the huddle" when you had to do it all through college and everyone was looking to you. Campbell, whether he actually deferred or not, had the option to defer to Ronnie Brown, Caddillac Williams, etc.

Anyway, just something I've been thinking about and been waiting to post in a Campbell thread since I didn't think it deserved its own!

Danny Wuerffel was "the man" at a better school, in a better conference, etc., etc., etc. Ditto Rick Mirer. So what?

Campbell continues to have questions about what he's capable of doing as the starting QB, and rightfully so, but to point to Brennan as somehow having a better chance to excel seems ridiculous.

Colt Brennan is a lottery ticket. Maybe he'll pay off, but odds are he won't.