Dan knows when to use his weight as an owner

[Ghost of]

The entire premise of the thread is a false analogy. The Steelers have a PLAN and it emphasizes DRAFT PICKS. They would never trade two firsts and a third for any player. They never bring in high-priced free agents.

They build a team over there, evaluating talent wisely and saving big contracts for the elite, home-grown players.

They can do that now they have Ben.

[Dah-Dee]

OP, I served with Dan Rooney, I know Dan Rooney. Dan Rooney is a friend of mine. OP, Dan Snyder is no Dan Rooney.

[chaught76]

I've read all of your posts and the franchise QB analysis is very good.

Let's look at some the QB situation mentioned though:

Eli Manning: The Giants did give up a lot for him. However, they already had an average to above O-line in place.

Phillip Rivers: Again, O-line in pretty good shape. Also, had the best RB and arguably the best TE in the game.

Ben Rothlesberger: Again, O-line in pretty good shape. Solid, dependable WRs and rock solid running game.

How can the Skins justify "selling the farm" for a potential franchise QB with the line messed up? Sanchez will get smashed every bit as much as Campbell would. It is like buying a new sports car and entering it into a demolition derby.

What if we did this instead:

- Draft some O & D line to help sure up the foundations of the offense and defense.

- Let Campbell play out the final year of his contract. The FO has already ran the guy's value into the toilet. No one in their right mind would offer us anything better than a 4th round pick for Campbell. If Campbell succeeds, we can resign him and/or trade him at a higher value if we don't want him. If he stinks it up, we weren't going to get much for him anyway. Plus, it potentially opens the door to see what Colt Brennan can and can't do (i.e. assess what we have).

- You are looking for franchise QBs. Why not wait til next year? That way we have the beginning of younger O-line in place and there will a lot of high quality QBs next year in Colt McCoy, Sam Bradford, etc.

If we go with Sanchez, he needs to be the second coming of Peyton Manning or everyone is going to explode. I'm sorry, this situation looks/feels more like Ditka selling the farm for Ricky Williams than what the Giants did for Eli.

Here's to hoping whatever we do leads to a successful future.

Peace!

[gorebd82]

I'm sorry, we didn't take Rhinehart last year, have Heyer developing, Geisinger, maybe will keep Kendall for vet depth (have a third too, for off. line help) and we didn't sign Dockery?

How are these people able to get away with these comments/lies?

As for what they would have done with Campbell, just look at the Stewart situation. Eventually, they figured he didn't have it (and he went a lot further than Jason ever has) and moved on. So don't try to presume to know anything about the Steelers QB situation. They also had Maddox and essentially dumped him when Big Ben stepped in and lifted the team's performance.

McPimpin you and I are seeing eye to eye. A lot of people just harp on Snyderatto and miss the whole point of this thread. Three respected organizations faced the same situations we do (trading up, young incumbent QB, needs along OL) and were not scared to pull the trigger.

If we spend a first on a tackle, end or OLB, there's no guarantee that the rook will start. I think that our "areas of need" are the deepest spots on our team and we will enter camp with some competition. Can you guarantee that Oher can beat out Heyer? Heyer was a second year player after being an UDFA, sorry he wasn't a Pro Bowler yet. Give Rhinehart a shot. We are one of the best teams in the league at developing OL talent, that's why other teams plucked from our practice squad.

I don't know if a rookie DE can beat out Daniels, Wynn, Alexander and Buzbee in the rotation. Rob Thomas was a 1st round LB, who's to say a rookie can beat him. Who knows? Fincher could be the next James Harrison (an UDFA journeyman who comes on later in his career).

[mnb123]

Ben Rothlesberger: Again, O-line in pretty good shape. Solid, dependable WRs and rock solid running game.

I stopped reading right there.

Pitt's OL is worse than ours.

PS: Their running game is in the bottom half of the league.

[gortiz]

How can the Skins justify "selling the farm" for a potential franchise QB with the line messed up? Sanchez will get smashed every bit as much as Campbell would. It is like buying a new sports car and entering it into a demolition derby.

!

dead on ...

as a big campbell supporter i would even be open to sticking put and getting sanchez at 13 if he is there and using next year's full compliment of picks to build around him.

campbell could have one last year to prove himself and if he does well the skins have a "good" problem on their hands - think Brees/Rivers.

I still wouldn't like that scenario, but anything is better then moving up to get Sanchez.

[gortiz]

I stopped reading right there.

Pitt's OL is worse than ours.

PS: Their running game is in the bottom half of the league.

not when they drafted Big Ben, a few years back.

that team went 15-1 with okay QB play by Ben...his supporting cast WAS SICK.

[CM916]

You know what? Whatever happens is out of our control and I can't ****ing wait for draft day so we can argue reality. If that reality ends up being Sanchez, well then I hope he works out. I'm just tired of it already.

That said, I don't beleive the other Dan mortgaged his entire draft for Ben. Correct?

[gorebd82]

I've read all of your posts and the franchise QB analysis is very good.

Let's look at some the QB situation mentioned though:

Eli Manning: The Giants did give up a lot for him. However, they already had an average to above O-line in place.

Phillip Rivers: Again, O-line in pretty good shape. Also, had the best RB and arguably the best TE in the game.

Ben Rothlesberger: Again, O-line in pretty good shape. Solid, dependable WRs and rock solid running game.

How can the Skins justify "selling the farm" for a potential franchise QB with the line messed up? Sanchez will get smashed every bit as much as Campbell would. It is like buying a new sports car and entering it into a demolition derby.

What if we did this instead:

- Draft some O & D line to help sure up the foundations of the offense and defense.

- Let Campbell play out the final year of his contract. The FO has already ran the guy's value into the toilet. No one in their right mind would offer us anything better than a 4th round pick for Campbell. If Campbell succeeds, we can resign him and/or trade him at a higher value if we don't want him. If he stinks it up, we weren't going to get much for him anyway. Plus, it potentially opens the door to see what Colt Brennan can and can't do (i.e. assess what we have).

- You are looking for franchise QBs. Why not wait til next year? That way we have the beginning of younger O-line in place and there will a lot of high quality QBs next year in Colt McCoy, Sam Bradford, etc.

If we go with Sanchez, he needs to be the second coming of Peyton Manning or everyone is going to explode. I'm sorry, this situation looks/feels more like Ditka selling the farm for Ricky Williams than what the Giants did for Eli.

Here's to hoping whatever we do leads to a successful future.

Peace!

I'm going to address two main areas of your thinking. First, the OLine of those teams. Giants, San Diego, and Pittsburgh OLines where not in the shape you claim.

Of the three, the Steelers had the best but like our OL, it was very old and they have been in the process of rebuilding the unit over the last few years. But Ben has been the key to the transition not destroying the team. The Steelers have invested quite a few picks in the OL and not found a solution. That is why they had so many RFA and UFA on the OLine this year. There picks haven't really panned out so there hasn't been a lot of long term deals. Having Ben has allowed them to go through transitions at WR (Plax leaving, Holmes coming in) and RB (Bettis retires, Parker/Mendenhall injuries) and still win a SB despite flux in the OL.

As for the Giants and Chargers, you are way off base. The Giants have had the most suspect line in the division up until their Super Bowl year. Going into that season, the OL was the biggest question mark. Luke Petitgout was not the OT they expected, but they lucked up because David Diehl luckily made a successful transition from guard to left tackle. As for San Diego, they also had a suspect OL, but luckily got their starting LT of the future by spending a 3rd round pick on Marcus McNeill. He dropped in the draft because of a degenerative back condition.

Now, secondly, let me address the potential circumstance of Campbell potentially failing. As I said in an earlier post, if he is successful this year, we will be forced to hand a huge contract based on a potentially fluke year. And that's if he'll even re-sign. Chances are he plays well and leaves, or he falls on his face and we are looking at the draft for a QB next year. Sanchez is a much better prospect than any QB in next year's draft. Sam Bradford is the only one with the same passing capabilities, but he comes from a shotgun, spread, QB friendly, never get touched system in Oklahoma. Physically and moxie-wise, Sanchez has it more than Bradford. You saw the national championship game. I know I wouldn't want him behind our OL.

[wvtbred]

Yeah I saw that clip on OTL today too excellent point. There is one small difference that I'm sure someone else will point out. The Stellers did NOT move up to get Big Ben, he was like the third or 4th QB and they picked him at 11. That's the difference.

...and that draft was pretty damn deep in QB's so you could wait.

[chaught76]

I stopped reading right there.

Pitt's OL is worse than ours.

PS: Their running game is in the bottom half of the league.

How's is Pittsburgh line worse than ours?

They won the Superbowl with a line worse than ours?

This will be Big Ben's 6th season. When he was drafted 6 seasons ago, Pittsburgh's rushing offense was ranked 2nd in the league in rushing and 28th in passing (Ben's rookie season). They were 16th in yards per game and they ranked 11th in points per game.

If their line stunk that bad, how exactly did they pull that off?

Just wondering what you are basing your opinion off of?

[gorebd82]

...and that draft was pretty damn deep in QB's so you could wait.

That draft was 3 deep. This one is 2 deep. Not a major difference. There were only 4 first round QBs in that draft and Losman wasn't projected as a first rounder. This year has 3 players projected in the first.

And as for the Steelers not giving up anything, please see that I've highlighted all three circumstances around drafting those QBs and they are all similar to us. Giants move up, San Diego drafts QB despite young incumbent, Steelers pick QB over OL.

[Vicious]

If he gets the stamp of approval from our team, then that means Zorn gave him an ok.

Not really

[The Tris]

I am a fan of Jason Campbell, but I have to agree with a couple things in this thread:

1. Pitts line was TERRIBLE last year. If you don't agree, you didn't watch them play.

2. Big Ben is a unique QB who can improvise and make school yard plays...remember when he completely turned around and threw back across the field in the SB, so silly and somehow Santonio was there for a huge pick up. This ability (call it "it" or whatever) allows him to make plays where other QBs would not be able too. Some may call this "making the OL/other players better." Well, maybe look better, but I have to agree, a QB with those abilities is MUCH more valuable than a pro-bowl LT. Or to use a baseball geek term, the Value of Replacement Player (VORP) is much higher going from an average QB to a Pro-Bowl one, than going from an average LT (or RT) to a Pro-Bowl one.

3. Sanchez is a better pro prospect than next years "Big Three" in my opinion. So if Danny/Zorn/Vinny/Mystery QB Coach:silly: think 1) Jason will never get to X level and 2) Sanchez has the best chance out of any QB to get to X level, than you do it.

And comparing Kordell to Campbell is interesting and I had actually never thought about that.

[Chief skin]

Steelers on both sides of the ball manhandled us on national tv, they controlled line of scrimmage in our own place. Comparing them to us is like apples and lemons

[Passizle]

Lets not kid ourselves here. Since when have the steelers become this offensive juggernaut because they drafted Bug Ben.

The Steelers are what they mainly from a VERY stingy defense that generates short fields and turnovers.

The Steelers were 22nd in total offense in 2008, 17th in 2007, 7th in 2006. They were not throwing up 35 ppg... and by the numbers, our QB was not far behind Ben. In fact... at least by the numbers we have here, their offense has been slipping since Ben stepped (not blaming, I think Ben is a good QB). Point is, its not Bens shoulders that are propping up 2 SB wins.

BTW... I see alot of the same bickering here as in many other QB related threads. Can somebody answer me this question? If Ben is such a good QB, how come his line is not good. In conversations past, ALOT of the same dudes in this thread were clamoring about how great QB make their lines great... and not the other way around. So what gives?

[gorebd82]

And comparing Kordell to Campbell is interesting and I had actually never thought about that.

Not only were the Steelers coming off of the Kordell era, but they had just had an excellent season from an old Tommy Maddox, but they still pulled the trigger.

Also don't forget that the Skins passed on Roethlisberger in that draft and ended up taking Campbell a year later. Think the organization wants to miss on another great one and then reach for a QB next year?

[gorebd82]

Steelers on both sides of the ball manhandled us on national tv, they controlled line of scrimmage in our own place. Comparing them to us is like apples and lemons

Didn't our "horrible and aging" DLine get 4 sacks in the first half and knock Ben out the game?

[gorebd82]

Lets not kid ourselves here. Since when have the steelers become this offensive juggernaut because they drafted Bug Ben.

The Steelers are what they mainly from a VERY stingy defense that generates short fields and turnovers.

The Steelers were 22nd in total offense in 2008, 17th in 2007, 7th in 2006. They were not throwing up 35 ppg... and by the numbers, our QB was not far behind Ben. In fact... at least by the numbers we have here, their offense has been slipping since Ben stepped (not blaming, I think Ben is a good QB). Point is, its not Bens shoulders that are propping up 2 SB wins.

Their offense is definitely not a juggernaut, but Ben is the only constant on an offense that continues to be good enough to win. Ben has led the Steelers to two Super Bowls despite a disintergrating offense around him. The Pitt defense is no more dominate today than it was the past few years, but Ben has continued to get better and hold his side of the ball together.

[AKM311]

I have a question, if Stafford or Sanchez were true FRANCHISE QB's, then how come they are not slotted 1st and 2nd in a very weak top heavy draft?

The Lions and Rams both need to start over at the position, but how come none are a lock?

Maybe because this draft is a lot like the Carr, Harrington, Ramsey draft. All three had major question marks coming into the draft, but since every draft someone has to be a Franchise QB, they chose Carr and Harrington.

This situation sounds very similar. Don't just take a QB because they are the best of the draft. That does not qualify as a Franchise QB.

[chaught76]

Just for the record, I think Sanchez will be a very good QB in this league.

I am just questioning the idea of "selling the farm" (if you will) this year.

In reality, every player in the draft is gamble. Heaven knows we got blindsided with the Heath Shuler pick. So, I guess what I am suggesting is why gamble on one player to be "the man" at a position we already have a good (not yet great) QB versus gambling on multiple players to fill positions we desparately need help at. It is just me, but I take the later and play the odds.

Whatever we do, I hope we get a winning team on the field this year.

[Passizle]

Their offense is definitely not a juggernaut, but Ben is the only constant on an offense that continues to be good enough to win. Ben has led the Steelers to two Super Bowls despite a disintergrating offense around him. The Pitt defense is no more dominate today than it was the past few years, but Ben has continued to get better and hold his side of the ball together.

That post sounds all too familiar. I thin you can safley replace the word Ben with Jason and we might have the same thing... except for the whole 2 superbowls thing.

Dont get me wrong. Ben is great and never gives up. He is hard to bring down and can use his legs just long enough o make something happen. I think his WR corp is better overall.

But I also think that JC is of the Ben mold. He really not all that phenomenal, but can make plays when needed and needs a good supporting cast to be successful. I'm okay with that. See the three trophies we have that should really be dedicated to the The Hogs.

[gorebd82]

That post sounds all too familiar. I thin you can safley replace the word Ben with Jason and we might have the same thing... except for the whole 2 superbowls thing.

Dont get me wrong. Ben is great and never gives up. He is hard to bring down and can use his legs just long enough o make something happen. I think his WR corp is better overall.

But I also think that JC is of the Ben mold. He really not all that phenomenal, but can make plays when needed and needs a good supporting cast to be successful. I'm okay with that. See the three trophies we have that should really be dedicated to the The Hogs.

I feel the opposite. The RB, top WR and OL have been the constant on our offense and the fluctuating piece has been the QB. Our success for the most part has been determined by how much the QB contributes. I really do like Campbell, but bottom line is that I recognize that him developing into an elite QB is a pipe dream that I can't hold onto. He and Ben have some similar attributes physically, but that is where the comparison ends. Sorry.

[Stophovr6]

A lot of people on here criticize Snyder, but this situation is like that other Dan where people want us to get a safe pick like an O-Lineman, but like I read in another article, franchise QBs are more precious than gold. If you see one, you have to grab him because you might not get a shot at another one.

Two things. One is I don't see OL as a safe pick. I see it as a major need and that ANY QB is going to struggle if we don't try and fix it. The other is that I'm not convince Sanchez is a franchise QB. I don't know how anyone can know this for sure.

[Veretax]

not when they drafted Big Ben, a few years back.

that team went 15-1 with okay QB play by Ben...his supporting cast WAS SICK.

Ben came in before they probably wanted him to. He had a great supporting Cast, and he proved early that he had IT! I'm afraid there are not many that feel JC has IT :/

Having Ben has allowed them to go through transitions at WR (Plax leaving, Holmes coming in) and RB (Bettis retires, Parker/Mendenhall injuries) and still win a SB despite flux in the OL.

Now, secondly, let me address the potential circumstance of Campbell potentially failing. As I said in an earlier post, if he is successful this year, we will be forced to hand a huge contract based on a potentially fluke year. And that's if he'll even re-sign. Chances are he plays well and leaves, or he falls on his face and we are looking at the draft for a QB next year. Sanchez is a much better prospect than any QB in next year's draft. Sam Bradford is the only one with the same passing capabilities, but he comes from a shotgun, spread, QB friendly, never get touched system in Oklahoma. Physically and moxie-wise, Sanchez has it more than Bradford. You saw the national championship game. I know I wouldn't want him behind our OL.

I agree, to overcome their RB deficiencies when people could t-off on Big ben is amazing. JC can't carry this team without CP right now. I don't think so, if they draft Sanchez, they do not automatically have to sign JC, they could give him another one or two year deal and trade him if they wanted.

For anyone that wants to see what Bradford would do against a pressure defense, go watch the WVU vs OU Fiesta Bowl Last Year. WVU destroyed their Protection, and put more pressure on Sam Bradford then anyone else I've seen play them. So yeah that's a risk

I am a fan of Jason Campbell, but I have to agree with a couple things in this thread:

1. Pitts line was TERRIBLE last year. If you don't agree, you didn't watch them play.

It was the year before 2007 that they stank so bad, they let Faneca go, and struggled early in the year, and still Ben had more sacks then most Starters in the league, but Ben was able to over come that.

3. Sanchez is a better pro prospect than next years "Big Three" in my opinion. So if Danny/Zorn/Vinny/Mystery QB Coach:silly: think 1) Jason will never get to X level and 2) Sanchez has the best chance out of any QB to get to X level, than you do it.

And comparing Kordell to Campbell is interesting and I had actually never thought about that.

I Agree, Kordell was an Option QB in College, JC was not, totally different situation