Espn: Mel Kiper :Why Andre Smith wont fall past #13(does not include article)

[Oldskool]

Take the posterchild for gynecomastia at pick #13? I don't think so.

Just say no to Mr. C cup Vinny.

If you're more obsessed with his topless pic than you are with his skills, perhaps you have your priorities mixed up.

When this team chooses at #13 odds are Smith will be the best OT available, whether you and the others that fixate over this photo like it or not.

[Going Commando]

I've been saying for the past three months that I'd rather have Oher than Smith, but if Oher is gone and Smith is still there then we should scoop him up in a heartbeat. Both of them have issues, but both are tremendously talented. Each have higher upside than J. Smith and Monroe IMO.

With Oher you get a player who is probably not ready to start his rookie year, he has after all, only been playing organized football for 6 or 7 years. But his athleticism is incredible, and he has a clear cut future at LT once it all comes togther for him.

With A. Smith, you get a player who, on film, looks like the best OT in this draft and has surprisingly good feet for someone his size. He'd be ready to start immediately and we could get the ball rolling with him next year. But you are probably going to have to struggle with his weight throughout his entire career which is a pain in the ass. Plus he made some really poor decisions on how to handle the pre-draft song and dance. If his agent is the one walking him through this, he should be fired. He would be the worst one since Master P.

I don't know, draft for the future is my thought, so I would take Oher and suffer through another season of Heyer/Jansen in the hope that he'd be ready by 2010. Both are good players but I'd take a guy with the potential ceiling of Willie Roaf over the more immediate guy with the ceiling of Flozell Adams. But our championship window with this current team is pretty much in the next 3 maybe 4 seasons. We'll see what happens, but none of it will make too big a difference if we don't get any progress from our QB and 2nd rounders from last year because we can't win a championship until/unless they develop.

[The Sisko]

If you're more obsessed with his topless pic than you are with his skills, perhaps you have your priorities mixed up.

When this team chooses at #13 odds are Smith will be the best OT available, whether you and the others that fixate over this photo like it or not.

Though I made fun of his voluptuous manboobs in this thread, the primary reason I've had problems with him for a while has to do more with his lack of foot speed. As a result, he seems like another Leonard Davis to me. In short, I think he'll probably make a good guard rather than being an elite OT. That's not worth a #13 pick in my book.

Furthermore that he seems to have judgement issues as evidenced by the agent fiasco, maturity issues as evidenced by his shenanigans at the combine, and a poor work ethic as evidenced by following the combine up with showing up out of shape for his individual workout throws out all kinds of red flags.

What it amounts to is that he's a gamble. However, the same is true of Oher for different reasons. In the end, I don't know that we have much of an option to drafting either one of them, absent a tradedown presenting itself.

I'm not as opposed to taking either Smith or Oher as I was to "Malcomb" Kelly because I think they have more upside potential than Kelly did. These guys are boom or bust, but in exchange for the bust potential you're at least taking a shot on a player that could potentially be dominant.

[terpskins10]

When this team chooses at #13 odds are Smith will be the best OT available, whether you and the others that fixate over this photo like it or not.

Probably true. But will he be the best value? Even though OT is probably our biggest need, I would rather trade down and grab a less talented guy who works hard in Eben Britton or William Beatty, or stand pat and draft a DE or linebacker.

Something about a guy that didn't even prepare well for his interviews and workouts, when literally millions of dollars were on the line, doesn't make me feel good about his commitment to working hard during the season.

[That Redskins Fan]

Probably true. But will he be the best value? Even though OT is probably our biggest need, I would rather trade down and grab a less talented guy who works hard in Eben Britton or William Beatty, or stand pat and draft a DE or linebacker.

Something about a guy that didn't even prepare well for his interviews and workouts, when literally millions of dollars were on the line, doesn't make me feel good about his commitment to working hard during the season.

but the same thing can be said about beatty-beatty better pass blocker than run blocker durablity questions as well and Britton, has short arms and does not handle speed rusher well..

the further you go down in lineman , the more negatives come up. With smith at least you have a guard you can kick inside if Thomas or Dock goes down

[ChiefPowhatan17]

He won't get passed #10 cause the 49ers said they would take him.

[[[ghost]]]

He won't get passed #10 cause the 49ers said they would take him.

I'd rather have Oher.

Oher was ARGUABLY better than Smith in college. Although both of them have their issues. Oher is solid and seems to have mental issues dealing with the complexity of blocking schemes, where as Smith thought it was wise idea to take his shirt off.

[terpskins10]

];6255000']I'd rather have Oher.

Oher was ARGUABLY better than Smith in college. Although both of them have their issues. Oher is solid and seems to have mental issues dealing with the complexity of blocking schemes' date=' where as Smith thought it was wise idea to take his shirt off.[/quote']

Yeah, I also don't see where the "regardless of his issues, he's an elite talent so we should take him" comes from. He looked good to me, but he also looked like he struggled when he manned up with faster guys, and usually let linebackers fly right by him.

Oher honestly looked just as good to me, so I agree with you there. Again, I just don't think Andre Smith is worth the risk.

[That Redskins Fan]

He won't get passed #10 cause the 49ers said they would take him.

Hmm they are talking to Marvel Smith and they may strike a deal soon

http://blog.pressdemocrat.com/49ers/2009/03/49ers-talks-with-marvel-smith-heat-up.html

[boofMcboof]

Here are a couple questions to all the pro-Andre Smith people.

1) What are your feelings toward Malcolm Kelly and how he's handled being a professional?

2) Are you okay with the front office spending $11 million in guaranteed money on a certifiably lazy player hoping that he turns it around?

3) Do you honestly believe NFL veterans want to babysit rookies coming into the league who don't provide any effort in improving on their own time?

[That Redskins Fan]

Here are a couple questions to all the pro-Andre Smith people.

1) What are your feelings toward Malcolm Kelly and how he's handled being a professional?

2) Are you okay with the front office spending $11 million in guaranteed money on a certifiably lazy player hoping that he turns it around?

3) Do you honestly believe NFL veterans want to babysit rookies coming into the league who don't provide any effort in improving on their own time?

1. Malcom kelly wants to learn but cannot he was and always will be a medical risk..are you thinking Devin Thomas.. then there is risk in all things you do calcualted or not.

2. as for nfl veterans wanting to baby sit- who says smith will need one , people seem to forget his favorite player is Chris Samuels that alone may or may not have a affect on him. Also pople seem to forget he played for nick saban and we all know what coaching tree he comes from. And if saban was ragging on this young man then i would want the redskins to pass on him

3. 11 million guranteed see previous statement about risk..

[0mega]

I live in No AL and have watched Andre Smith for the past few years. No I'm not an Alabama fan. That said, dude would be an absolute steal at 13.

However, if we could trade down and pick up another first day pick and still get a 2nd-tier OT (or top-tier Center), then I'd be all for it.

[0mega]

Here are a couple questions to all the pro-Andre Smith people.

1) What are your feelings toward Malcolm Kelly and how he's handled being a professional?

2) Are you okay with the front office spending $11 million in guaranteed money on a certifiably lazy player hoping that he turns it around?

3) Do you honestly believe NFL veterans want to babysit rookies coming into the league who don't provide any effort in improving on their own time?

1) Do you put more stock into Combine and Pro Day numbers, or in-game production?

2) Did Andre Smith appear lazy while burying every defender he faced on the football field, against the toughest opponents in college?

3) Do you think that a players draft positioning should based on the size of his biceps?

[Dondrae474]

I agree with that come one the guy was an outland trophy winner...he went from the top rated OT on the board to maybe falling righ to us...People can't honestly say that if we draft him our Oline coach and veteans won't make him a probowl caliber RT. If Smith is there at 13 he IS the pick.

Well said. I am hoping that he drops to 13 so that the Skins can draft him. I think think he will pan out fine in the NFL.

[Meatsnack]

Here are a couple questions to all the pro-Andre Smith people.

1) What are your feelings toward Malcolm Kelly and how he's handled being a professional?

What does this have to do with Andre Smith? Kelly had knee problems, our medical staff advised against taking him, our genius FO took him anyway. Having no knee cartilage isn't coachable.

2) Are you okay with the front office spending $11 million in guaranteed money on a certifiably lazy player hoping that he turns it around?

No one has ever called him lazy but media types. His coaches speak highly of him on and off the field. He played at 340#, weighed-in at the combine at 332#, weighed-in at his pro-day at 325, should probably play OLT at 310 to 315 in the NFL. He hit his weight-targets that Saban gave him every time.

Understand that Smith has been the best OT in the nation since high school: the consensus top OL coming out when he committed to Alabama. Started every game at Bama and was All-SEC freshman team his first season. He won the Outland Trophy as a Junior as the best O-lineman of any stripe in the NCAA. He did all this without needing to lift weights, watch his diet, or train hard in the off-season. He is a naturally strong and gifted kid who right now, today, is a better run blocker than anyone on our roster.

In the NFL, he will have to workout, watch his diet, and maintain all off-season. Just like 95% of all the other damned rookies will adjusting to the league. Some make the adjustment, some don't but the environment in our locker room is conducive to helping him make the transition. Plus, few start with as much natural talent as Smith. Mike Mayock says, "worst case scenario is you get an all-pro guard for 10 years." Would I spend the 13 overall on Hutchinson? Probably.

3) Do you honestly believe NFL veterans want to babysit rookies coming into the league who don't provide any effort in improving on their own time?

I dunno, ask Moss who was working out with D. Thomas in Miami, or Randy Thomas who put Heyer on his workout and diet program and put 25# of muscle on the kid. If the veterans want to win they must help the young'uns. Part of the deal and something we already do in a veteran locker room full of leaders. Who wants to tell Chris, Dock, London, Griff, etc that they are too busy to work out? You can't cut off that much tape from the goalpost.

[Xero21]

Just curious, but could anyone who knows the answer to this question help me out?

What were the OT rankings before the combine? More specifically, who was thought of as better, Michael Oher or Andre Smith?

[The Sisko]

Mike Mayock says, "worst case scenario is you get an all-pro guard for 10 years." Would I spend the 13 overall on Hutchinson? Probably.

This is a good point. Quite frankly, I'm more than a little embarrassed to admit that I didn't consider this even though I have said more than once that I expect him to end up as an OG. :doh: If Smith ended up not being able to cut it at RT and IF he ended up being in the same class as Hutchinson, it would still end up being a great pick since Thomas is long in the tooth and Rhinehart remains a big question mark.

You may have just changed my mind about him. As long as he doesn't have a degenerative knee condition and his name can't in some way be twisted into a comb-related pun, I could get on board.

[That Redskins Fan]

Just curious, but could anyone who knows the answer to this question help me out?

What were the OT rankings before the combine? More specifically, who was thought of as better, Michael Oher or Andre Smith?

SMith was viewed as the top prospect and even a number one pick

and he was viewed No 1 Over all the Tackles until his sugar bowl suspesion

and his combine fiasco and Pro day with him running without his shirt. Ever Since these events he has pretty much gone underground and working his ass off espn had a article about him last week. Imo i think he is getting a taste of humble pie and try to prove his doubters wrong, I am on his Band Wagon and I hope he falls to 13 Yes he is a boom or Bust prospect.

yes he is immature, But he is not a polished prospects but we have a coaching staff and leadership to make sure he gets there.

[The Sisko]

Just curious, but could anyone who knows the answer to this question help me out?

What were the OT rankings before the combine? More specifically, who was thought of as better, Michael Oher or Andre Smith?

Honestly, I don't think it matters. Every year prior to the combine you hear all sorts of names thrown around and lots of these guys all but fall off the radar afterwards. The combine makes a big difference since lots of players look great against college level talent but don't have the measureables to succeed in the Niffle. Calais Campbell last year is a good example of this.

[onnie007]

Wow. Unbelievable critiques of this guy that are absolutely non-football related. First, most lineman don't look good with their shirts so all of the jokes about his body with a shirt off are unnecessary. Second, this kid hasn't been with a team in months (does anyone remember that he was suspended for Alabama's bowl game). He will be fine after some work within the first week with an NFL squad. But you can't deny this kid can play football. Every team that pass him up is going to regret it once he plays on Sundays. I hope we get him because that will be 12 chips on his shoulder that he will work hard to get rid of.

[Going Commando]

Here are a couple questions to all the pro-Andre Smith people.

1) What are your feelings toward Malcolm Kelly and how he's handled being a professional?

2) Are you okay with the front office spending $11 million in guaranteed money on a certifiably lazy player hoping that he turns it around?

3) Do you honestly believe NFL veterans want to babysit rookies coming into the league who don't provide any effort in improving on their own time?

I think you are misinformed. I don't see how Malcolm Kelly has been unprofessional. Nearly every single rookie, especially WRs, has trouble adapting to the speed of the NFL game, so I'm guessing you aren't taking issue with his production last year. Maybe you are referring to how Zorn called him out for showing up to OTAs out of shape last year. But once again, coming from a college conditioning program to an NFL one is a big change, and he didn't have the benefit of going to the offseason conditioning programs and workouts with the team because he hadn't been drafted yet.

I'm actually pretty impressed with how he has conducted himself, and how quickly he was to get involved with charitable work. He's been hurt a lot sure, but that doesn't say anything about how professional he is.

Also, I don't really see how you can categorically call Andre Smith lazy because he didn't prepare for the combine. Obviously he made a bad decision in the way he handled it, but people skip out on the combine a lot. He just should have never admitted it was a preparation issue. He rose to the top of his position at the college level and winning its most prestigious award--something that you don't do by being "certifiably lazy".

Lastly, it isn't the job of the veterans to babysit the rookies, but I don't understand why you think that Andre Smith supporters assume it is. Its the coaches job to prepare the players and its not like they would shirk or ignore him if he were drafted. Also, what is there to hope he turns around? It isn't like he didn't enjoy a high level of production and success at the college level and this is a pick based on potential like Michael Johnson. I'd be happy if he didn't turn anything around, and dominates opponents at the next level in the same way he did in college.

His body of work speaks for itself. If you have a problem with him let it be something substantial like a football problem or a drug or alcohol-use problem. As it is, his primary sins have been disrespecting the pre-draft conventions like the combine that have been fetishized by the draftnik community. It seems to me like they are the ones who are most angered by this. I say BFD, I'm glad they aren't the ones running my favorite team.

His only other concern is his weight issue, which is something he will probably have to manage throughout his entire career. But then honestly, that is half of all offensive lineman and interior defensive lineman go through the same thing and it doesn't stop them from having great seasons.

[Xero21]

SMith was viewed as the top prospect and even a number one pick

and he was viewed No 1 Over all the Tackles until his sugar bowl suspesion

and his combine fiasco and Pro day with him running without his shirt. Ever Since these events he has pretty much gone underground and working his ass off espn had a article about him last week. Imo i think he is getting a taste of humble pie and try to prove his doubters wrong, I am on his Band Wagon and I hope he falls to 13 Yes he is a boom or Bust prospect.

yes he is immature, But he is not a polished prospects but we have a coaching staff and leadership to make sure he gets there.

In that case, I think that's worth something. Being the #1 OT after everyone showed their in-game performances is a good sign.

Quite frankly, I think if half of the O-lineman in the draft took their shirts off it would be the same for them. I don't particularly mind a fat lineman, so long as he still has strength. His Pro Day numbers weren't good, but it's not like he's getting pushed around on the field, right?

And also, if there was one O-line coach that could get a young player to reach his potential, it's our very own Joe Bugel.

[Going Commando]

Just curious, but could anyone who knows the answer to this question help me out?

What were the OT rankings before the combine? More specifically, who was thought of as better, Michael Oher or Andre Smith?

Andre Smith was the consensus #1 after the season but before the senior bowl. The other three were close behind. Before the season during the summer, Oher was the consensus #1 among most of the draftnik community. But keep in mind, Andre Smith is an underclassman, so he wouldn't have been considered at that time along with J. Smith, Oher, and Monroe.

Over the course of the season, Oher started to slip although I'm not entirely sure why. Ole Miss had a pretty good year (better than UVA's for sure) and I don't think Oher allowed a sack this season. He only allowed 1 the year before, he is a good pass protector, but I'm guessing he showed his inconsistencies in run blocking on the tape.

[Oldskool]

Though I made fun of his voluptuous manboobs in this thread, the primary reason I've had problems with him for a while has to do more with his lack of foot speed. As a result, he seems like another Leonard Davis to me. In short, I think he'll probably make a good guard rather than being an elite OT. That's not worth a #13 pick in my book.

Furthermore that he seems to have judgement issues as evidenced by the agent fiasco, maturity issues as evidenced by his shenanigans at the combine, and a poor work ethic as evidenced by following the combine up with showing up out of shape for his individual workout throws out all kinds of red flags.

What it amounts to is that he's a gamble. However, the same is true of Oher for different reasons. In the end, I don't know that we have much of an option to drafting either one of them, absent a tradedown presenting itself.

I'm not as opposed to taking either Smith or Oher as I was to "Malcomb" Kelly because I think they have more upside potential than Kelly did. These guys are boom or bust, but in exchange for the bust potential you're at least taking a shot on a player that could potentially be dominant.

When you go back to the Alabama pro day and look at the mixed feelings that scouts had over his performance and that does draw red flags but no one there said that he would have to move to guard, rather what they have said is that he wouldn't play LOT in the pro's. This is fine because we wouldn't have him play LT anyhow unless something happened to Samuels. Smith is a prototypical grinder at ROT and I think that's what scouts from teams picking in the top 15 know, and one reason that he will slide down.

His maturity issue is well documented even before the draft, with his behavior at Alabama and his subsequent suspension for what would have been his last collegiate game. But we also have to differentiate maturity issues versus a person with a miscreant personality. This guy isn't Adam Jones. This guy isn't Odell Thurman. He simply is a very talented and quite immature teenager that will have to grow up. I'd like to say that there wouldn't be a better mentor for this guy than Buges and Jansen, two men that don't take crap from no one and can teach this boy not only how to be a great ROT but to be a man as well.

You are absolutely right when you say that both Oher and Smith are laced with potential and aren't a sure thing, but I'd rather go with the guy that has demonstrated that he has the physical skills to be dominant on a consistent basis versus the guy that showed it only when he had to.

[Streater101]

I've been saying for the past three months that I'd rather have Oher than Smith, but if Oher is gone and Smith is still there then we should scoop him up in a heartbeat. Both of them have issues, but both are tremendously talented. Each have higher upside than J. Smith and Monroe IMO.

With Oher you get a player who is probably not ready to start his rookie year, he has after all, only been playing organized football for 6 or 7 years. But his athleticism is incredible, and he has a clear cut future at LT once it all comes togther for him.

With A. Smith, you get a player who, on film, looks like the best OT in this draft and has surprisingly good feet for someone his size. He'd be ready to start immediately and we could get the ball rolling with him next year. But you are probably going to have to struggle with his weight throughout his entire career which is a pain in the ass. Plus he made some really poor decisions on how to handle the pre-draft song and dance. If his agent is the one walking him through this, he should be fired. He would be the worst one since Master P.

I don't know, draft for the future is my thought, so I would take Oher and suffer through another season of Heyer/Jansen in the hope that he'd be ready by 2010. Both are good players but I'd take a guy with the potential ceiling of Willie Roaf over the more immediate guy with the ceiling of Flozell Adams. But our championship window with this current team is pretty much in the next 3 maybe 4 seasons. We'll see what happens, but none of it will make too big a difference if we don't get any progress from our QB and 2nd rounders from last year because we can't win a championship until/unless they develop.

You don't draft a guy at 13 to redshirt. We'd better off just trading out if that was the case.