Your Cowboys Release T.O. Discussion thread--merged/MET

[turbodiesel#44]

Do you have any proof he flipped off Parcells?

No, I just made that up. Tuna LOVES the guy.

And again, I don't care if he called Garcia anything.. can someone please tell me why Jeffy can't keep a job, even when he WINS? Yes, TO is wrong to call Jeffy a fag, but I can't be the only one who notices that Garcia gets run out of every town he's been in, winner or not. In a league in which it is SO hard to find a good starting QB, how is it that a guy who takes teams to the playoffs can't stick anywhere?

Could be there's a reason why Owens doesn't like him,, just like every other team he's been with.

So, you think a player should take it upon himself to critique the team publicly? That won't upset the management or polarize a locker room will it? Um....Explain how crying to the press about your team mates helps your team? How it won't hurt team chemistry? I don't care if they deserve it or not. Since when is that a players place?

TO Performing selfish acts on the field?

Like what? Scoring touchdowns? Blocking? Can you honestly say you've EVER seen him dog it as bad as, say Randy Moss does on the field? I can't. The guy plays hard.

If the teammate needs it, hell yes. Like I said in another post, guys that would do that used to be called "leaders"... the act of getting in a guy's face was called "challenging a player".

Now it's called cancer. Doesn't make sense to me. Would you rather a guy be so detached that he doesn't care if his teammate dogs a block, or misses an assignment? Maybe they should all listen to IPODs on the sideline, worry about themselves and punch out at five.

It's called cancer because everywhere he goes he pits team mates against team mates. He divides locker rooms. And most teams have figured him out now anyway. You either jam him at the LOS and he totally shuts down, or lay 1 good hit and give him alligator arms for the rest of the game. He is not willing to take the risk of punishment to help his team.

Anyone remember back in 1991 when we played the Giants... Gary Clark had an atrocious first half,, dropped two sure TD passes... then he caught two in the fourth qtr to win the game, Yay! Does anyone remember Clark SCREAMING in Joe Gibbs' face on the sidelines during that game? I do. I wonder what everyone would have thought back then if we had the same scrutiny we do now. By many accounts, it was something Clark was known for.. and it was explained by Gibbs as knowing what Gary needed to do to blow off steam,, he'd yell, get it out of his system, and go out and make the play.

Point is, the so called bad sideline behavior is something we've seen time and again. We only seem to think it's bad when it's Owens.

Yeah, everybody should start screaming at their coaches. Kids should start doing that in pee wee league since they know so much more than the guy in charge. Last I checked, JG was in the HOF. Not sure where Clark is now. If you think JG would EVER tolerate a player like TO, I think you are mistaken.

Who did he hold out on?

Please, I would love to know.

Who did he demand trade him? He was a free agent when he left San Francisco, and if his incompetent family friend agent had not forgotten to file his papers on time, the 49ers could not have completed their underhanded trade to the Ravens. I wonder how you'd take it if your employer did that to you?

the Ravens didn't "win" his rights. Because of his agent's incompetence, the 49ers were able to complete a trade that was against the sprirt of the rules, and was a dirty lowdown trick on a player that they didn't like. The union agreed, argued his case, and what do you know, the NFL agreed too.

Are the facts really that hard to recall?

Yeah, those silly agents. Even though they have to be vetted by the league and those contracts are legally binding, lets just throw them all out and have an anarchy league. The Ravens traded for TO. He refused to honor the deal. Spin it however you want. TO is a champion for crybabies everywhere.

First off, I think it's absolutely HILARIOUS that anyone thinks he actually tried to kill himself. Seriously, for all the problem player issues people bring up, if there's one thing that is not debatable, it's that off the field, the guy is a model citizen. he's never ever been involved in any sort of off field trouble beyond that incident, and considering how hard he works at his job, how hard he works to keep his body in perfect condition, you REALLY think he tried to kill himself?

Really? Is it not just possible that he DID accidentally OD? I mean, it happens so much in this country that pharmacies are actively making sure patients do not cross drugs... it happens to thousands of people every year.. how hard is it to believe he may have had an accident?

OK, so you think that he thought he was taking Vitamin B? LOL, the idiot has written books on fitness. Does he recommend taking whole bottles of Vitamin B?

His quote about Garcia was "if it walks like a rat and talks like a rat, it must be a rat". Again, I'll point to the undeniable fact that every team Garcia has been with since the Niners have parted ways with him as fast as they can, even after he wins for them.. Oh, and Jeff wasn't married to anyone back in those days.

As far as McNaqbb, he answered a question about why he felt they didn't win the Super Bowl, and THAT I will give you is his prime problem. He will tell the truth, and we all know how well that usually goes over.

As I said in another post, maybe it was just my TV, but McNabb looked tired, out of shape, and care-free in that last drive of the Super Bowl. Smiling, walking up to the line, clock ticking down....

Someone asked, and he said what he thought, which also was what most of us who watched that game thought.

Calling out your coaches and team mates in public has led to success in what sport again? Refresh my memory.

You've touched something, but I don't think it's an iceberg. You guys can keep spouting the same stuff over and over, but it seems to me that no one actually refutes what I've said..

~Bang

You think TO is a good addition to any team. I think he is bad for any team. History so far has proven me to be correct. Nobody wants the conceited loser. Especially the teams that had him. They ALL gave him the boot.

[royallypwned]

:munchout:

[Bang]

No, I just made that up. Tuna LOVES the guy.

well, i guess that's proof that he flipped him off from the bike as you say, every time he turned his back.

With all the cameras and attention around him you'd think they would have at least ONE picture of him flipping off Parcells, especially if it happened, as you claim, every time he turned his back. But I've never seen one, or heard anyone say that until you wrote it.

Odd.

So once again...

Proof,, as in corroboration, as in another source for your story. So far all I have hear is a fan on a message board telling me it happened, and then giving a smarmy non answer when asked for proof.

So, you think a player should take it upon himself to critique the team publicly? That won't upset the management or polarize a locker room will it? Um....Explain how crying to the press about your team mates helps your team? How it won't hurt team chemistry? I don't care if they deserve it or not. Since when is that a players place?

Well, I've been asking for quotes of these critiques in Dallas all day, and what do you know, NO one has provided one. Same old same old.

It's called cancer because everywhere he goes he pits team mates against team mates. He divides locker rooms. And most teams have figured him out now anyway. You either jam him at the LOS and he totally shuts down, or lay 1 good hit and give him alligator arms for the rest of the game. He is not willing to take the risk of punishment to help his team.

Except he played on a broken leg in the Super Bowl. The guy will alligator it once in a while, mostly when Sean Taylor hit him. But overall, he gives more than he gets.

Yeah, everybody should start screaming at their coaches. Kids should start doing that in pee wee league since they know so much more than the guy in charge. Last I checked, JG was in the HOF. Not sure where Clark is now. If you think JG would EVER tolerate a player like TO, I think you are mistaken.

Gibbs DID tolerate it, and I saw it happen with my own eyes. Gary Clark screamed at him. Right in his mug. And then he won the game.

Besides, please don't debate like this, to sit back and sarcastically try to change the context of my point won't fly with me, I'm not stupid enough to miss it. The fact is, players calling out players USED to be acceptable, Remember Joe Theismann? Pointed fingers and named names. and when he did, the player got better, or he got out. John Riggins,,, practicing? Hardly ever in his best years. Riggo would run for 140 on Sunday, check himself into Georgetown Hospital, lay in traction til Wednesday, show up for light work on Thursday, walk thru on Friday and Saturday, run for 140 on Sunday, check himself into Georgetown.. etc. etc. etc. etc.

The current notion that all players should be (and are) treated equally is ridiculous.

As Jimmy Johnson once said after cutting a backup OL for sleeping in a meeting that Troy Aikman was also sleeping in... "What, you think they're equal?"

Yeah, those silly agents. Even though they have to be vetted by the league and those contracts are legally binding, lets just throw them all out and have an anarchy league. The Ravens traded for TO. He refused to honor the deal. Spin it however you want. TO is a champion for crybabies everywhere.

Here's my spin. The union and league both agreed with what I wrote.

Anything else needed?

OK, so you think that he thought he was taking Vitamin B? LOL, the idiot has written books on fitness. Does he recommend taking whole bottles of Vitamin B?

No, I think he did what he said he did, in that he took a combination of things, and too many of something.

But hey, you're right. He probably did try to kill himself.. multi millionaire superstar athlete in the prime of his life. Seems logical.

Calling out your coaches and team mates in public has led to success in what sport again? Refresh my memory.

Football. Anyone remember Phil Simms relationship with Bill Parcells? Not what I'd call rosy. Yelling at each other on the sidelines, yanking him out of games, more yelling on the sidelines... and a Super Bowl ring. Dan Fouts? Remember him? He used to yell at guys all the time.. hell one of the more famous NFL Films of him is him yelling at Kellen Winslow on the sidelines, and when Winslow talked back, Fouts told him to shut up and do what he was supposed to do.

End of story.

How about just last year when Peyton Manning went over and yelled at the OL, who then got up and yelled back at him and told him to shut up.

They won something like 11 in a row last year as I recall.

You think TO is a good addition to any team. I think he is bad for any team. History so far has proven me to be correct. Nobody wants the conceited loser. Especially the teams that had him. They ALL gave him the boot.

No I don't think Owens is a good addition to any team. I think he'd be a good addition for OUR team. Try to stick to what I actually say when telling me what I think. It would help.

I wrote earlier that he would be a lousy fit in Indy, Pittsburgh, New England, and a bunch of other places.

But he'd be a fine fit here because he's exactly what our offense lacks,, a legit threat that a defense HAS to respect anywhere on the field.

He'd be a good fit in NY, where it was plain obvious to everyone how much Eli missed Burress' size and ability to physically beat a CB, which Owens also does.

He'd not be a good fit with the Jets, the Raiders, the Seahawks, the 49ers, the Vikings, Bills, Chiefs, Lions, or Rams. They either have no quarterback or no immediate future. (He's going to want to try for a ring now. He's up there in age and has done all the personal stats.. the ring is all that's left.

He would be a good fit in Cleveland, Atlanta, New Orleans, or Chicago. They have potential.

So I hope that clears up any confusion.

Any time you want to prove some of those other assertions, I'll be waiting.

~Bang

[turbodiesel#44]

well, i guess that's proof that he flipped him off from the bike as you say, every time he turned his back.

Like I said, I was kidding. At the time I wrote it, I thought that was obvious. I guess it was so close to character that you took it literally. Nobody likes working with a guy like TO. He thinks he doesn't need to practice the same as everybody else. He takes the credit and passes the blame. He makes ten times more than guys who work ten times harder and produce more. He is cancer. He drops tons of passes, then gets in his QB's face yelling he's not getting enough balls, forget about that Witten guy, throw to me. His fights with Witten are well documented. Romo sits to pee doesn't make waves. He's a choker who lets the GFs father go first.

Well, I've been asking for quotes of these critiques in Dallas all day, and what do you know, NO one has provided one. Same old same old.

Google

Except he played on a broken leg in the Super Bowl. The guy will alligator it once in a while, mostly when Sean Taylor hit him. But overall, he gives more than he gets.

He wasn't even limping. Could he have played in earlier games? IDK. But he wasn't going to miss his chance in the spotlight of the big game. And he wasn't even limping.

Gibbs DID tolerate it, and I saw it happen with my own eyes. Gary Clark screamed at him. Right in his mug. And then he won the game.

Besides, please don't debate like this, to sit back and sarcastically try to change the context of my point won't fly with me, I'm not stupid enough to miss it. The fact is, players calling out players USED to be acceptable, Remember Joe Theismann? Pointed fingers and named names. and when he did, the player got better, or he got out. John Riggins,,, practicing? Hardly ever in his best years. Riggo would run for 140 on Sunday, check himself into Georgetown Hospital, lay in traction til Wednesday, show up for light work on Thursday, walk thru on Friday and Saturday, run for 140 on Sunday, check himself into Georgetown.. etc. etc. etc. etc.

Sorry, but you are taking one incident and making it a rule. A memorable quote from Gibbs was that he put character above talent. Things happen in the heat of the moment, but JG would not tolerate an insubordinant on the field. Where were you when JG made all the statements over his entire career about character? JGs rule was: you don't practice, you don't play.

The current notion that all players should be (and are) treated equally is ridiculous.

As Jimmy Johnson once said after cutting a backup OL for sleeping in a meeting that Troy Aikman was also sleeping in... "What, you think they're equal?"

I never said or thought all players were equal or should be treated equal. Where do you dream that crap up? I said it wasn't a players place to call out his team mates to the press. Not good for team unity. Do I have to explain that? You mean you can't see how that would be a problem? Did TO EVER call himself out after a bad game?

Here's my spin. The union and league both agreed with what I wrote.

Anything else needed?

We went to war and killed 4000 Americans over invisible WMDs. That doesn't make it right. A deal is a deal. And rules are rules. You don't like it? Don't play the game. If everybody started ditching their contracts, the league would be a mess. If a team misses a deadline (aka Dockery), they lose out. Can a team pay whatever they want, or do they have to pony up the dollars that somebodies agent agreed to?

No, I think he did what he said he did, in that he took a combination of things, and too many of something.

But hey, you're right. He probably did try to kill himself.. multi millionaire superstar athlete in the prime of his life. Seems logical.

Riiiiiight. Because nobody rich and/or famous and/or young never OD'ed or killed themselves. Give me a break. Are you serious?

Football. Anyone remember Phil Simms relationship with Bill Parcells? Not what I'd call rosy. Yelling at each other on the sidelines, yanking him out of games, more yelling on the sidelines... and a Super Bowl ring. Dan Fouts? Remember him? He used to yell at guys all the time.. hell one of the more famous NFL Films of him is him yelling at Kellen Winslow on the sidelines, and when Winslow talked back, Fouts told him to shut up and do what he was supposed to do.

End of story.

I can't prove it, but it is widely thought Tuna left Dallas over a power struggle with Jones, TO being in the center of it. Do you read the papers?

How about just last year when Peyton Manning went over and yelled at the OL, who then got up and yelled back at him and told him to shut up.

They won something like 11 in a row last year as I recall.

Peyton, as a QB, is expected and counted upon to be a team leader. He can get animated firing up his men, but does he call them faggots to the press? Really, you can't see the difference? Peyton earned his right to lead that team. TO is self appointed. Wherever he goes.

No I don't think Owens is a good addition to any team. I think he'd be a good addition for OUR team. Try to stick to what I actually say when telling me what I think. It would help.

I wrote earlier that he would be a lousy fit in Indy, Pittsburgh, New England, and a bunch of other places.

But he'd be a fine fit here because he's exactly what our offense lacks,, a legit threat that a defense HAS to respect anywhere on the field.

He'd be a good fit in NY, where it was plain obvious to everyone how much Eli missed Burress' size and ability to physically beat a CB, which Owens also does.

If TO is such a good addition, why is Dallas eating a NINE MILLION DOLLAR CAP HIT TO DUMP HIS SORRY ASS? That's around 8% or so of the cap. And it's not just Dallas, EVERYBODY HAS DUMPED TO. EVERY SINGLE TEAM HE HAS EVER PLAYED FOR. You don't see a pattern?

So I hope that clears up any confusion.

Any time you want to prove some of those other assertions, I'll be waiting.

~Bang

I wasn't confused even from the start. Dallas wised up and cut TO even at great expense to themselves. They have another old WR and nobody else to throw to except a TE. What bothers me is they are a better team for doing it. And I don't like Dallas.

[Bang]

Well, this is fun

Like I said, I was kidding. At the time I wrote it, I thought that was obvious.

OK, I seriusly thought you were being sarcastic as if it were common knowledge. My mistake!

He wasn't even limping. Could he have played in earlier games? IDK. But he wasn't going to miss his chance in the spotlight of the big game. And he wasn't even limping.

True, he wasn't, but it wasn't like he was making it up. Remember? Doctors were all telling him he shouldn't play,, he was sleeping in that magic pup tent every night and working it to get back.

Let me tell a little story.. back then I got a chance to do a small 45 second animated bumper for The Best Damn Sports Show during Super Bowl week. TO's leg was the biggest news of the week, and the Drs were all telling him not to play, etc... and when he announced he would play, one of the SportsCenter guys said that he must have gotten some witch doctor to sign off on his leg, because no one else would. SO, I took that, and I made a quick 45 second press conference cartoon with TO and his Witch Doctors. I had them say that the leg had responded well to chicken bone and snakeroot treatments, and a lizard had indicated that TO would have a big game. I did this all in subtitles while i made "ooga booga" sound effects and made the witch doctors jump around and wave bones and what not. I modeled both of them after the old witch doctor characters on Scooby Doo.. and they bumped me because they said the cartoon was too touchy racially.

Anyway, the point is that it was HUGE that all these doctors told him not to play, and as you said, he played without a limp. I doubt they all faked it.

I don't see how a guy who will step up like that in big games, whether for it's for his own glory or not is a bad thing.

Sorry, but you are taking one incident and making it a rule. A memorable quote from Gibbs was that he put character above talent. Things happen in the heat of the moment, but JG would not tolerate an insubordinant on the field. Where were you when JG made all the statements over his entire career about character? JGs rule was: you don't practice, you don't play.

Except Riggins, who rarely practiced. And I'm not taking one incident and making it a rule, I'm saying stuff happens, and it happens all the time all over the league, and it doesn't necessarily have to be BAD.

Look, TO yelling at his coach in SF.. BAD. TO Disrespecting his coach in Philly.. BAD. Not defending that. But he hasn't done that since, and I'd be willing to take a chance on two years of him not doing it to Zorn. Frankly, I think Zorn would recognize the weapon and use him, thus neutralizing the complaint.

I never said or thought all players were equal or should be treated equal. Where do you dream that crap up?

I didn't, I used it to further illustrate the point i was making about Clark.

I said it wasn't a players place to call out his team mates to the press. Not good for team unity. Do I have to explain that? You mean you can't see how that would be a problem? Did TO EVER call himself out after a bad game?

Whether he ever called himself out after a bad day is irrelevant. I've said all along that I think the incidents of him supposedly throwing Romo sits to pee or Witten or Garrett under the bus are blown out of proportion. As far as tossing McNabb under there, I've said it before, they asked him, and he told them. I don't think he lied one iota about McNabb's performance in that Super Bowl. By then I think the relationship was fractured anyway, and depending on who you believe, they both had a hand in the problem. McNabb couldn't handle being the second most popular guy in Philly, and he got petulant. It's not like we haven't seen that out of him again.

We went to war and killed 4000 Americans over invisible WMDs. That doesn't make it right.

Bad analogy. This is a lighthearted discussion about a football player and a football league. Perspective, my man.

A deal is a deal. And rules are rules. You don't like it? Don't play the game. If everybody started ditching their contracts, the league would be a mess. If a team misses a deadline (aka Dockery), they lose out. Can a team pay whatever they want, or do they have to pony up the dollars that somebodies agent agreed to?

Rules are rules. And the 49ers broke those rules. Owens agent missed a deadline, and he filed an appeal immediately, remember? All the sports radio talked about that whole damn day, nothing but. He filed an immediate appeal, and that put him in a hold pattern... while he was in that hold, the 49ers traded rights that they didn't have. He filed a grievance, the union presented the case, and the NFL agreed.

So, complain about it all you want, but those are the facts. No conspiracy, no Big Lie.. plain and straightforward.

Riiiiiight. Because nobody rich and/or famous and/or young never OD'ed or killed themselves. Give me a break. Are you serious?

Yeah, I thought that was clear. I'm serious. I think it's a joke that people believe that. By the way, I've got a hot lead on some nice bridge property up in Brooklyn. You interested?

I can't prove it, but it is widely thought Tuna left Dallas over a power struggle with Jones, TO being in the center of it. Do you read the papers?

I do, and I've been saying all along, in practically every post, that the media has blown things out of proportion. I don't doubt Parcells had a power struggle with Jones, but the fact is, all the talk about what was at the center of it is total speculation. Neither one has said one way or another so far as I've heard. Course, this could be one of those direct quotes I've been asking about. I know you told me to use that there "Google" thingamajig, but dang be if i can figger out how it werks.

No **** I can google it. You think I haven't? I can't find the quotes, and you won't either.

Peyton, as a QB, is expected and counted upon to be a team leader. He can get animated firing up his men, but does he call them faggots to the press? Really, you can't see the difference? Peyton earned his right to lead that team. TO is self appointed. Wherever he goes.

Well, if you'd read what I wrote, i also told you that those offensive linemen in Indy got off the bench and told Peyton to shut his yap when he was being a leader. This was just this past year, you don't remember this? They chased his ass right back to the other side of the bench.

And you'd also recall me saying what he said about Garcia was wrong too. But, that was a long time ago now. People change quite a bit between 25 and 35, wouldn't you agree?

If TO is such a good addition, why is Dallas eating a NINE MILLION DOLLAR CAP HIT TO DUMP HIS SORRY ASS? That's around 8% or so of the cap. And it's not just Dallas, EVERYBODY HAS DUMPED TO. EVERY SINGLE TEAM HE HAS EVER PLAYED FOR. You don't see a pattern?

Why did Jerry Jones fire Jimmy Johnson? Why did he hire a cheating idiot like Barry Switzer? Why did Jerry Jones draft Shante Carver in the first round? Why did Jerry Jones let the Cowboys have a house for drugs and hookers called the White House? Why did Jerry Jones sign Pacman Jones and Tank Johnson? Why did Jerry Jones lay out TWO first round picks for Joey Galloway? Why did Jerry Jones use his first pick in 2001 on Quincy Carter? Why did Jerry Jones draft David LaFleur in the first round? Why does Jerry Jones undercut his coaches?

Why is it that suddenly everyone thinks Jerry Jones is smart when it comes to his players because he's made one move they agree with, and fifty that are laughable??

He took an 8 million dollar hit and got rid of a guy who consistently performs to boost the morale of a coach and QB who don't. I don't think they've done themselves any favors with this move.

~Bang

[BigMike619]

Bang,

You are being like me in the tailgate...like a dog with a toy that it wont let go.

I love it...

~Bang II

[Bang]

Bang,

You are being like me in the tailgate...like a dog with a toy that it wont let go.

I love it...

~Bang II

Yeah, these field trips to other areas of the board are fun!

~Bang

[brdawk20]

Westy...no, no, no!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[BigMike619]

Yeah, these field trips to other areas of the board are fun!

~Bang

I feel like Ive been sparring in the tailgate so long and now we're set free on the rest of them.

and westy's pic :thumbsup:

keep it coming bro. i hope it does happen again

[turbodiesel#44]

~Bang

I agree a lot of things are said in the press. When it comes to sports, especially the personal lives of sports figures, the press is held to the same standards as their Hollywood reporting. They would be ridiculed out of business and sued out of ownership if they verified real news and political stories to the same degree. TO has never been in any real legal trouble, I'll give you that. To me, I suppose this is what it boils down to:

You can't win with just talent or teamsmanship. It takes both. Different teams have found success with different combinations. But you need both. Good teamsmanship will elevate a units talent above the sum of its players, IMO. With TO's resume, even slightly exaggerated, he takes away more than he brings with talent only. Particularly at 35 and declining.

I absolutely love your cartoons, and don't want to get in a pissing match with you, so let's agree to disagree and see how it plays out.

I don't think TO's playing days are quite over. Somebody will get him. HAIL.

[brdawk20]

While T.O. is a great talent (sorry haters, he is a HOF'er), let's look at something else.

What is the record of T.O.'s teams in the playoffs? In fact, has T.O. ever played in a winning playoff game?

49ers--Not that I remember.

Eagles--No. He didn't play in any of the playoff wins.

Cowboys--No. 0-3, LOL.

T.O. can get you into the playoffs...but that's it. Plus, you can say T.O. was on winning teams, but when T.O. got to those teams THEY WERE ALREADY GOOD. The Eagles made the playoffs, and won games, for three years before T.O. got there. San Fran had guys like Young and Rice. And the 'Boys had a decent team when T.O. got there. Perhaps the T.O. winning effect is a little bit overrated.

While you can blame McNabb for the 2004 Super Bowl, the Patriots, and Richard Seymour in particular, put the blame on Reid for not running the ball at the Pats, even though the Eagles' line was blowing them off the ball. As Seymour said "I didnt understand why they weren't running. We couldn't stop the run. Runyon was yelling to just run the ball, but they didn't run."

Just say "No to T.O."

[Bang]

I agree a lot of things are said in the press. When it comes to sports, especially the personal lives of sports figures, the press is held to the same standards as their Hollywood reporting. They would be ridiculed out of business and sued out of ownership if they verified real news and political stories to the same degree. TO has never been in any real legal trouble, I'll give you that. To me, I suppose this is what it boils down to:

You can't win with just talent or teamsmanship. It takes both. Different teams have found success with different combinations. But you need both. Good teamsmanship will elevate a units talent above the sum of its players, IMO. With TO's resume, even slightly exaggerated, he takes away more than he brings with talent only. Particularly at 35 and declining.

I absolutely love your cartoons, and don't want to get in a pissing match with you, so let's agree to disagree and see how it plays out.

I don't think TO's playing days are quite over. Somebody will get him. HAIL.

Thanks for loving the cartoons, and I never intended to get into a pissing match. this has always just been a bit of football talk, nothing serious at all. We may throw a joking barb or two, but I'm not about to get out of hand over it.

It's been fun, truly. I've had a blast with this all day!

~Bang

[turbodiesel#44]

It's been fun, truly. I've had a blast with this all day!

~Bang

Well it's not over yet. Not until the Fat Lady signs a contract somewhere. This Dallas purge is a little disconcerting. I had already written them off for next year.

[royallypwned]

What is the record of T.O.'s teams in the playoffs? In fact, has T.O. ever played in a winning playoff game?

49ers--Not that I remember.

Eagles--No. He didn't play in any of the playoff wins.

Cowboys--No. 0-3, LOL.

lol ummm...TO won a playoff game in each of these years with the 49ers: 1996, 1997, 1998, and 2002. That is four playoff wins.

[Rexrode21]

lol ummm...TO won a playoff game in each of these years with the 49ers: 1996, 1997, 1998, and 2002. That is four playoff wins.

Yea, just shows he's getting older and less productive. I honestly have nothing against the guy. He's a top 10 WR in the league, but he has been dropping more passes lately and you cannot say with a straight face that he's a great influence in the locker room. But yes, he has won some playoff games, and in the clutch he can make some plays.

[Hubbs]

T.O. to the Pats?

Good Lord. Imagine that. Brady would throw 150 touchdowns. They might go the whole year without calling a single running play.

[Chachie]

I see his stats but with those stats Dallas should have made the 1st round despite a lack of general chemistry. His antics kept their eyes off the prize and on him.

The downside of having Owens isn't about the wins, obviously. It's the losses. Teams don't go undefeated and if you lose one, he increases the chances of losing another by causing major distractions and throwing blame around like confetti. His demand for the ball forces one-dimensional coaching schemes and limits opportunities for QBs. Any player is happy and productive on a winning streak but no player sours and drags others down after a loss like El Dorado. He makes the dig-out that much tougher. Joe Gibbs was great at keeping players level-headed after a loss. I seriously doubt Jim Zorn has acquired that touch yet.

Bang's Kool-Aid looks delicious and I'm thirsty for a WR but I just have to pass on a Jim Jones party.

[SWFLSkins]

Bang's Kool-Aid looks delicious and I'm thirsty for a WR but I just have to pass on a Jim Jones party.

Wow, close thread.

That'll do.