You lost me. What's the plan again?

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Ok... what is the plan, in your opinion?

1) Nail down the QB position once and for all. Find out exactly if Campbell is the answer, and make sure whoever they hired as head coach last year gives Snyder and Vinny confidence that he knows how to go about doing so.

2) Give Zorn 3 years to establish himself and his system. No firing Zorn after one season because Cowher/Shanahan/Whoever is making themselves available. No firing him after a 2-6 second half of the season. No replay of Norv and Marty. Unless a meltdown of Detroit Lions-proportions occurs, stick with Zorn through thick and thin for at least 2-3 years.

3) Sign FAs that the coaches, assistants or coordinators have previous experience with. No more Archulettas, Lloyds and the like. Fletcher, Smoot, AH, Hall and Dockery...all have experience with some of the coaches. Unless, of course, that FA is at the top of his position. Tom Brady becomes available, it doesn't matter whether or not anyone on the Skins staff has worked with him before.

4) Put trading down in the draft as the top priority, unless there's a player available at your spot that you just can NOT pass up. Otherwise, keep spreading the word that the Skins are open and available to all trade scenarios. Try and recoup picks lost in the past as much as possible. One of the trains of thought after trading for JT was that Vinny could recoup that 2nd rounder by following just that plan.

5) Stick with the draft picks as long as possible and see if they develop. That means no cutting players like Tryon after one preseason, unless he just shows absolutely zero in terms of talent and smarts.

6) Get younger. Keeping all 10 draft picks last year, coupled with letting go of Springs, Washington, Daniels and not resigning Kendall this year, would all seem to point in this direction. There are still some older players on the roster, that can't be helped. But wherever possible, get younger.

Those are off the top of my head. I'll add more as I think of them.

[TheGoodBits]

I'm honestly glad that we cut Taylor. Having 2 small DEs with no interior pressure was a recipe for disaster last year. I thought that it would probably be better this year with the acquisition of Haynesworth, but I wasn't completely sold. I'm hoping that we have a larger DE starting in place of JT at the start of the season, whoever it may be. I think it will probably be better for us that way.

[skins4eva]

Welcome to the rest of us. I think a lot of us were a bit shocked by that after everything that was said, but it is sounding like Taylor is really losing his desire to play. From everything I was reading, it sounds like he's pretty close to hanging it up and playing with his kids.

As for what's the plan, probably similar to the plan restructuring Taylor would have facilitated: going through and filling holes via relatively cheap FAs. The only difference is that we have another hole to fill. I look at this as an opportunity for the young guys to step up and make themselves a spot on this team.

I'm going to repost this when he signs with New England and wins a ring.

[Tulane Skins Fan]

1) Nail down the QB position once and for all. Find out exactly if Campbell is the answer, and make sure whoever they hired as head coach last year gives Snyder and Vinny confidence that he knows how to go about doing so.

2) Give Zorn 3 years to establish himself and his system. No firing Zorn after one season because Cowher/Shanahan/Whoever is making themselves available. No firing him after a 2-6 second half of the season. No replay of Norv and Marty. Unless a meltdown of Detroit Lions-proportions occurs, stick with Zorn through thick and thin for at least 2-3 years.

3) Sign FAs that the coaches, assistants or coordinators have previous experience with. No more Archulettas, Lloyds and the like. Fletcher, Smoot, AH, Hall and Dockery...all have experience with some of the coaches. Unless, of course, that FA is at the top of his position. Tom Brady becomes available, it doesn't matter whether or not anyone on the Skins staff has worked with him before.

4) Put trading down in the draft as the top priority, unless there's a player available at your spot that you just can NOT pass up. Otherwise, keep spreading the word that the Skins are open and available to all trade scenarios. Try and recoup picks lost in the past as much as possible. One of the trains of thought after trading for JT was that Vinny could recoup that 2nd rounder by following just that plan.

5) Stick with the draft picks as long as possible and see if they develop. That means no cutting players like Tryon after one preseason, unless he just shows absolutely zero in terms of talent and smarts.

6) Get younger. Keeping all 10 draft picks last year, coupled with letting go of Springs, Washington, Daniels and not resigning Kendall this year, would all seem to point in this direction. There are still some older players on the roster, that can't be helped. But wherever possible, get younger.

Those are off the top of my head. I'll add more as I think of them.

Well, that's a good plan. Unfortunately, we haven't done any of those things. We didn't keep all 10 draft picks last year. We don't stick with draft picks as long as possible (small tenders to Golson and Montgomery), there is nothing to make us think they will trade down (which is actually hard to do), what players and coaches have we signed that have familiarity with each other(?), there's no reason to think Zorn won't get canned after 2009 if we miss the playoffs again, and what have we done to "nail down" the QB position.

I did it backwards.

I like your plan. I just don't see any signs that the FO is utilizing that plan.

[gorebd82]

Basically, it comes down to this:

If the Skins are winning, they have a plan.

If the Skins are losing, they have no plan.

If the Skins are winning but make a move you don't like, they're deviating from their plan.

If the Skins are losing and make a move you don't like, it's further proof that they have no plan.

If the Skins are winning and make a move you like, they're sticking to their plan.

If the Skins are losing and make a move you DO like, they're finally creating a plan.

I know that's what this thread seems to be, but I was very confident for a long time that we were making calculated, logical moves. Sometimes they didn't pan out, but they were headed in the same direction. This move is just soooo contradicting and illogical based on what our pattern seemed to be, that it makes me now question the whole "plan".

Do I think we are in better shape this year than this time last year? Absolutely. But if you look at our previous FA signings and trades, it went from players to raise our talent level and hopefully breakthrough (Griff, Marcus Washington, Springs, Brandon Noble, ARE, Carter, Lloyd, Arch, etc.) to acquiring 3 gamebreakers in less than a year. We got JT two seasons removed from DPOY, Hall two seasons removed from being the second best CB after Champ (anyone would be affected by the Falcons breakdown and the Oakland), and now Haynesworth.

We acquired 3 Pro Bowl caliber players in less than a year, and then cut one of them before we even see what he can do for us. Makes no sense. We're definitely better, but Jason Taylor was a solid answer for at least 1 year and now there is a gaping question mark.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Well, that's a good plan. Unfortunately, we haven't done any of those things.

We haven't?

1) We are indeed investing whatever we can in seeing if JC is the answer. Zorn was hired because of his QB coaching skills and Thomas and Kelly were drafted to give JC better targets than our annual FA-Off-The-Streets-In-Mid-Season approach.

2) Has Zorn been fired yet and I missed the press conference? lol...Because if not, I'm not sure how you can say the Skins aren't following this part of the plan.

3) No major FAs have been signed over the last three years that the coaches have not had some experience with.

4) The Skins traded down last year in the draft, and were already very vocal about doing the same this year. Whether or not they can find a partner doesn't mean doing so is not part of a plan.

5) They are indeed sticking with their draft picks so far. You said we didn't keep all 10 draft picks. Who did we not have on the roster or on the PS at the beginning of the season?

6) They have indeed been letting older players walk instead of squeezing yet one more year out of them like Gibbs preferred to do. Gibbs loved him some vets.

what players and coaches have we signed that have familiarity with each other(?)

Um...I'm gonna assume you knew that both Smoot and Dockery used to play for the Skins lol ...Sherman Smith used to be a coach in Tennessee while AH was there...Hall we got half a season with last year...Fletcher worked with Williams in Buffalo. Compare that to Arch and Lloyd.

You knew all this, right?

[Tulane Skins Fan]

We haven't?

1) We are indeed investing whatever we can in seeing if JC is the answer. Zorn was hired because of his QB coaching skills and Thomas and Kelly were drafted to give JC better targets than our annual FA-Off-The-Streets-In-Mid-Season approach.

2) Has Zorn been fired yet and I missed the press conference? lol...Because if not, I'm not sure how you can say the Skins aren't following this part of the plan.

3) No major FAs have been signed over the last three years that the coaches have not had some experience with.

4) The Skins traded down last year in the draft, and were already very vocal about doing the same this year. Whether or not they can find a partner doesn't mean doing so is not part of a plan.

5) They are indeed sticking with their draft picks so far. You said we didn't keep all 10 draft picks. Who did we not have on the roster or on the PS at the beginning of the season?

6) They have indeed been letting older players walk instead of squeezing yet one more year out of them like Gibbs preferred to do. Gibbs loved him some vets.

Um...I'm gonna assume you knew that both Smoot and Dockery used to play for the Skins lol ...Sherman Smith used to be a coach in Tennessee while AH was there...Hall we got half a season with last year...Fletcher worked with Williams in Buffalo. Compare that to Arch and Lloyd.

You knew all this, right?

You sir, see the good in things that I don't. I guess that's the bottom line.

I don't get excited that we didn't fire our rookie coach after he went 8-8. I don't find that promising.

I don't feel like going into the rest of the details, but I see the opposite happening in all of them.

[SnyderMustGo]

1) Nail down the QB position once and for all. Find out exactly if Campbell is the answer,

HAHAHAHAHAHAH!

I guess this is the "10 season plan" to finally figure out for sure, really this time, when we have a perfectly healthy Pro Bowl OL for an entire season and HOFers at wideouts. THEN we will finally know.

If they have not already figured out that Campbell is not the answer, we are more ****ed than I realized. If they had a plan, they would have an open competition for the QB spot. Right now, they are letting a question mark go into the final year of his contract with no competition or plan if he doesn't work out.

Crossing your fingers and praying to god that he finally figures it out is NOT a plan.

There is no plan in place at the QB position.

2) Give Zorn 3 years to establish himself and his system.

Fine.

I'm not sure that is a wise plan. We only have Zorn because we BOTCHED the coaching search and had no plan in place when Gibbs left. So Zorn has always been a longshot and was not a savvy coach pick. Zorn couldn't get an OC job anywhere other than here, much less a head coaching job.

But giving him 3 years to install a WCO is AT LEAST A PLAN. Dumb or otherwise, it is a plan.

Of course, if Zorn does not work out, I wonder if we are committed to the WCO when he leaves. If not, then it was not much of a plan.

3) Sign FAs that the coaches, assistants or coordinators have previous experience with. No more Archulettas, Lloyds and the like. Fletcher, Smoot, AH, Hall and Dockery...all have experience with some of the coaches. Unless, of course, that FA is at the top of his position. Tom Brady becomes available, it doesn't matter whether or not anyone on the Skins staff has worked with him before.

This is not a plan. You basically said, "Don't sign guys we don't know, unless they are good." Of course, EVERY stupid ass decision made by this FO was because they thought the player was going to be good. They did not sign all these guys thinking they were going to bust. And fans like you have been swinging from the nuts of every move we made, even when it turned out the guy stunk. Hell, you bozos were SERIOUSLY discussing that Archuleta was possibly the best safety in the league when we signed him. So he would fall under the exception you just made and still bust.

4) Put trading down in the draft as the top priority, unless there's a player available at your spot that you just can NOT pass up.

That's a fine plan. But how about just not trading away draft picks and therefore not needing to recoup anything.

5) Stick with the draft picks as long as possible and see if they develop. That means no cutting players like Tryon after one preseason, unless he just shows absolutely zero in terms of talent and smarts.

Again, not sure that is the plan. We lowballed Monty and Golston, and I wouldn't be suprised if they followed Ryan Clark and Antonio Pierce and went on about their ways. Nevertheless, we started them last year, and now we spent $100 million on AH instead of letting them develop. We also let Dockery walk, only to bring him back.

I wish we would develop our own players and keep them. I'm not sure our team is on that plan.

6) But wherever possible, get younger.

So you are up for cutting overpaid older players who are on the wrong side of their careers? So you are on board with getting rid of Portis and Fletcher and Griffin and most of our OL?

I will say in general, I think there are parts of the plan that you outlines that are, in fact, the very things we should be doing. But I am not going to BUY FOR ONE SECOND that we are in fact following such a plan. There is no evidence of such a plan at all other than fan's hopes.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

I know that's what this thread seems to be, but I was very confident for a long time that we were making calculated, logical moves. Sometimes they didn't pan out, but they were headed in the same direction. This move is just soooo contradicting and illogical based on what our pattern seemed to be, that it makes me now question the whole "plan".

If you're talking about cutting JT, then as I said earlier, I think it was SIGNING him that was not part of the plan...not releasing him. I gave Snyder and Vinny a pass on it, though, since having Daniels and Buzbee go out with season-ending injuries in the same afternoon obviously played a role in their decision.

Do I think we are in better shape this year than this time last year? Absolutely. But if you look at our previous FA signings and trades, it went from players to raise our talent level and hopefully breakthrough (Griff, Marcus Washington, Springs, Brandon Noble, ARE, Carter, Lloyd, Arch, etc.) to acquiring 3 gamebreakers in less than a year. We got JT two seasons removed from DPOY, Hall two seasons removed from being the second best CB after Champ (anyone would be affected by the Falcons breakdown and the Oakland), and now Haynesworth.

I doubt there are too many people out there who saw Hall as a "gamebreaker" to be honest. More people would have attached the labels "overrated" and "cancer" to his name. As for JT, again, I gave it a pass because they didn't go after him on day one of the FA signing period...they were all content to go into the season with Phillip Daniels. In the past, Snyder would have traded for JT at 12:01 am the first day of the signing period, and had a monstrous press conference afterwards. I don't put his signing into the "I want a big splash and instant upgrade, dammit!!" category.They weren't forced to trade for JT, but they sure were heading in a direction that said they weren't going to.

AH, yeah, he's probably THAT good that you go after him if you're a GM of a team that has next to zero in terms of true starting DT talent. Hell, Vinny was going on and on about needing a monster DT for the Skins last year before the draft.

We acquired 3 Pro Bowl caliber players in less than a year, and then cut one of them before we even see what he can do for us. Makes no sense. We're definitely better, but Jason Taylor was a solid answer for at least 1 year and now there is a gaping question mark.

I would question how "solid" JT was last year. A lot of fans were saying our run defense got better when he was out. And 3 1/2 sacks isn't exactly a stat that can't be duplicated by someone else.

I was hoping we'd see a huge bounce back from Taylor this season as well, and thought it could occur. But last year? If we knew then what we know now about JT's productivity in 2008, I would have preferred the Skins just use Evans, Wilson, Jackson and James over trading for JT and hoping he returns to form two years later.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

You sir, see the good in things that I don't. I guess that's the bottom line.

I don't get excited that we didn't fire our rookie coach after he went 8-8. I don't find that promising.

I don't feel like going into the rest of the details, but I see the opposite happening in all of them.

it's not about getting "excited"...it's about whether or not our FO is following a plan. Firing Zorn would indicate that they are not. Keeping him, while not proof of anything, at least indicates that they are. That they didn't just hire Zorn as a "stop gap" coach or that they're not gonna have their heads turned whenever a high profile coach becomes availble. THAT, in my eyes, would be evidence of them having no plan.

[Tulane Skins Fan]

it's not about getting "excited"...it's about whether or not our FO is following a plan. Firing Zorn would indicate that they are not. Keeping him, while not proof of anything, at least indicates that they are. That they didn't just hire Zorn as a "stop gap" coach or that they're not gonna have their heads turned whenever a high profile coach becomes availble. THAT, in my eyes, would be evidence of them having no plan.

Sorry, but cutting Jason Taylor two days after telling everyone that Haynesworth was going to free up Taylor to rush the passer, is evidence of no plan also.

Its not a question of whether you are for or against the Taylor cutting. Its the fact that on Sunday, they wanted Taylor. On Monday they cut him because of a workout clause? Makes no sense. No plan.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

HAHAHAHAHAHAH!

I guess this is the "10 season plan" to finally figure out for sure, really this time, when we have a perfectly healthy Pro Bowl OL for an entire season and HOFers at wideouts. THEN we will finally know.

Yeah, because starting 19 games = 10 seasons.

The Skins had Campbell under contract for 2 more seasons, and obviously saw enough in him to not want to give up on him. One of their first and most important questions they asked of coaching candidates was what they thought of Campbell, how he could improve to be the QB they hoped he would become, and what each coach would do to get him to that place. So, yeah, it's part of their plan. What is NOT part of their plan is worrying what knee-jerk fans think of their plan lol.

I won't go into the rest of your post, because I've already seen your logic and debating skills numerous times in the past, and they're not worth the effort. Afterall, you're the one who claimed Tavaris Jackson was the equal to Jason Campbell, and couldn't fathom why anyone would think otherwise. So, yeah, your football analysis leaves a little to be desired in my eyes.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Sorry, but cutting Jason Taylor two days after telling everyone that Haynesworth was going to free up Taylor to rush the passer, is evidence of no plan also.

Yeah, just like telling everyone that they had not talked to Miami about trading for Jason Taylor a few hours before announcing that they had just traded for Jason Taylor lol ...Like how Gibbs said Arch was in their plans, then traded him to Chicago. It might be proof that they disguise their real intentions on occasion, but it does not show that there was no plan in place.

[Tulane Skins Fan]

Yeah, just like telling everyone that they had not talked to Miami about trading for Jason Taylor a few hours before announcing that they had just traded for Jason Taylor lol ...Like how Gibbs said Arch was in their plans, then traded him to Chicago. It might be proof that they disguise their real intentions on occasion, but it does not show that there was no plan in place.

Wow.... self-satisfying delusion.... big time.

What you are saying is that Snyder and Cerrato (or the Redskins in general) are just so good at manipulating the league and getting what they want that we don't realize the master plan? So where are the Superbowl Rings?

The likeliest outcome tends to be the right one... these guys (Skins FO) are morons.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Wow.... self-satisfying delusion.... big time.

What you are saying is that Snyder and Cerrato (or the Redskins in general) are just so good at manipulating the league and getting what they want that we don't realize the master plan? So where are the Superbowl Rings?

The likeliest outcome tends to be the right one... these guys (Skins FO) are morons.

Manipulating the league? lol...Where the hell did you get that from my post?

What I DID do, though, was show that the Skins saying one thing, then doing another, does happen here and there. And usually, we can see after the fact what their plan was all along.

Seriously...not liking their actions does not equal having no plan.

Unless you really DO think that on Friday, Vinny, Snyder and Zorn were drawing up new game plans with Blache on how to feature Jason Taylor more...and then on monday they spontaneously said "Hey, guys, what do you say we cut Taylor instead?". If you think they didn't have this in their collective heads already, you're pretty naive.

[SnyderMustGo]

Califan007: some day I hope I can understand how you can POSSIBLY have faith in these morons. I mean, other than the fact that Redskins are my team, I cannot think of one single reason why I would assume these guys know what the hell they are doing. I can think of a about 100 reasons to assume they do not know what they are doing.

If only I could turn my brain to mush and just go through life with the "Everything is great" blinders on.

[Chump Bailey]

Sad that draft pick is wasted, but I'll wait to cry BS on that one until I see who Miami is able to select with that pick. :doh:

Yeah, definitely not looking forward to that...

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Califan007: some day I hope I can understand how you can POSSIBLY have faith in these morons. I mean, other than the fact that Redskins are my team, I cannot think of one single reason why I would assume these guys know what the hell they are doing. I can think of a about 100 reasons to assume they do not know what they are doing.

If only I could turn my brain to mush and just go through life with the "Everything is great" blinders on.

You'll have to point out where I said "everything was great". That's a basic straw man argument used, and used poorly, too often around here.

The idea that any FO, in the NFL, anywhere, has NO plan in place is idiotic and simplistic. Al Davis might be the only exception.

I'll tell you what many people around here tell Skins fans when they complain about media bias: when the Skins win, the media will stop criticizing them. Well, when the Skins win, 99.9% of the fans who claim they have no plan will stop claiming they have no plan. Guarantee it.

[downbeat87]

none of this crapola of a thread, or others like this would exist if danny didnt use a decade of my, our time to learn how to run a franchise.

that being said, you cannot let the fear of the unknown overwhelm your judgement.

we dont know the plan, but there is a plan.

the scary thing is... the plan may be a house on sand.

[tiger187126]

Sorry, but cutting Jason Taylor two days after telling everyone that Haynesworth was going to free up Taylor to rush the passer, is evidence of no plan also.

Its not a question of whether you are for or against the Taylor cutting. Its the fact that on Sunday, they wanted Taylor. On Monday they cut him because of a workout clause? Makes no sense. No plan.

you don't just cut first ballot HoFers who want to end their careers, unless you're Tampa or Philly

what the redskins did was set up a way where they both have good reasons for parting ways.

Taylor says he wants time with the fam

the redskins say they want him here for workouts

[Braxford]

Taylor was never part of the plan. He was a short term quick fix at best. Here is what I think is the plan going on at Redskins Park ( warning this may get a little bumpy, you know Vinny and Danny)

I think this even goes back to the beginning with Gibbs II. I will grade it on a three point scale.

1. Build a very competitive defense ( remember those defenses of Spurrier and the late 90's...ughhh)

This has been the most successful part of the plan. - One point.

2. Forget the draft for the most part and sign experienced most of the time proven players in free agency. This has been very hit and miss. Some hits and a lot of misses.

- 0.25 of a point.

3. On offense I think there has been no consistent plan. Under Gibbs II it was back to power running. Under Zorn...I still am not sure. If the second year recievers step up BIG TIME the Skins could have a very balanced offensive attack.- .5 of a point.

4. Special Teams...they are just kickers right, just sign a kicker and a punter and be done with it.- 0.25 of a point.

Total points- 2 out of 3 equals a team with playoff potential but not gonna get you to the Super Bowl without some luck or a hot streak.

With that being said I think the Skins are trying to get younger but keep the vets around who have have stayed realatively healthy and are still productive. The Skins are not the best team in the league and probably won't be next year. But the Skins are a solid team with real potential. Of course all of us want Super Bowl victories and that must be built towards using the draft, free agency and coaching. A lot of teams would LOVE to have been a playoff caliber team three out of the last four years with making it twice in the last four.

[Braxford]

Also why did the FO not talk to Taylor about this when Canty was still available? With Taylor being cut the Skins could have easily signed Canty. imo.

[tiger187126]

2. Forget the draft for the most part and sign experienced most of the time proven players in free agency. This has been very hit and miss. Some hits and a lot of misses.

- 0.25 of a point.

good post, i would like to point out that after a few years of struggling with managing the team snyder called on the legendary Joe Gibbs to come back and save the team. Lesson 1 from Gibbs?

point two of what you wrote. Gibbs hates rookies and hates drafts, he loves guys that everyone else consider washed up. Brunell sound familiar?

so now they're trying to right the ship, a year of drafting and a year of FA and who knows what next year will hold.

the plan is, take a weakspot and fix it.

no targets for your qb to throw to?

draft 3 of the top pass catchers in the draft

oft-injured aging corner?

sign a guy to fill in, he has a good 7 games lock him up and cut the aging/hurt corner

no pass rush because you can't collapse the pocket?

sign the best FA available and the best player at his position

can't protect the QB because your line got old?

resign one of your good picks and ....(we won't know until the draft)

actually the real plan according to people on here is to piss off extremeskins members as much as possible. they can do this by doing anything/nothing because even the people on here can't agree on anything.

dan snyder/vinny cerrato/the washington redskins want to win and they will do what it takes to win. they takes weakness' and turn them into strengths

i mean a week ago people were chastising them for not resigning Hall, now it's we paid too much money.

we don't have a pass rush we sign al, we overpaid

we got three starters from FA, we should have picked up 6 backups

are you guys serious? get your mind off dan snyder's money and look at who is going to be on the field next year, because that's all we as fans should care about

[Oldfan]

Dan Snyder and Jason Taylor had a verbal agreement for two years. The Redskins did not want to keep their end of the bargain because tieing up 8.5 million in salary cap for a player you can only hope can make the move to strongside linebacker isn't a good idea.

So, the two sides met and came to another agreement. Taylor was bought off, but the Redskins did not want that deal made public. So, they cooked up the $500,000 workout bonus disagreement. Now, both sides are happy.

That's my guess because the reported events don't make sense.

[ECU-ALUM]

Don't worry this guy is in charge.