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How often do we "win" trades?

NewCliche21

By NewCliche21
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NewCliche21

NewCliche21

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Third and a fourth for Brandon Lloyd: Fail.

Bailey and a second for Portis: A wash.

Second and a sixth for two-year Taylor: Tentative fail.

Coles for Moss: Win.

These are just a few trades off the top of my head as my NyQuil goes into effect (wonder why I've been especially moody the past two days?).

I'm just thinking, and the only one of those trades that we outright won was Coles for Moss. He's been a core Redskin for four years and it was a straight-up swap for what I remember, plus Coles gave us six million back.

Have we actually done any other trades (not pick vs. pick, but trading an actual player for something) that DIDN'T involve us being fleeced in the long run? Or actually HELPED us?

I'd say that Brunell for a third could be argued.

I'd also like to talk about how we compare to other teams in terms of our fail-to-win ratio in trades.

Please don't just argue about whether a trade was good or bad, that's not what this thread is for. This thread is to discuss our front office's ability to make trades in general.

Again, sorry for the incoherence, but the medicine is kicking in and I'd like a productive thread to wake up to.

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redskins0756

redskins0756

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Third and a fourth for Brandon Lloyd: Fail.

Bailey and a second for Portis: A wash.

Second and a sixth for two-year Taylor: Tentative fail.

Coles for Moss: Win.

These are just a few trades off the top of my head as my NyQuil goes into effect (wonder why I've been especially moody the past two days?).

I'm just thinking, and the only one of those trades that we outright won was Coles for Moss. He's been a core Redskin for four years and it was a straight-up swap for what I remember, plus Coles gave us six million back.

Have we actually done any other trades (not pick vs. pick, but trading an actual player for something) that DIDN'T involve us being fleeced in the long run? Or actually HELPED us?

I'd say that Brunell for a third could be argued.

I'd also like to talk about how we compare to other teams in terms of our fail-to-win ratio in trades.

Please don't just argue about whether a trade was good or bad, that's not what this thread is for. This thread is to discuss our front office's ability to make trades in general.

Again, sorry for the incoherence, but the medicine is kicking in and I'd like a productive thread to wake up to.

Coles for Moss I don't think was a "win". Look how much we're paying Moss and how much production he's had since he came here. Aside from 2005 I haven't seen enough consistency to consider this trade a "win".

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NewCliche21

NewCliche21

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Coles for Moss I don't think was a "win". Look how much we're paying Moss and how much production he's had since he came here. Aside from 2005 I haven't seen enough consistency to consider this trade a "win".

I think that if we look at it as Coles = LOL and Moss = DEFINITELY can be counted on to make half-a-dozen game-breaking plays per season, then we definitely won.

Coles wasn't going to do anything here and wanted out. Instead of just letting him out, we got someone who has given us some pretty good memories in each season. I'd consider that pretty win.

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NewCliche21

NewCliche21

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I think after the bust that Arch turned out to be, we "won" the trade with the Bears for a 6th. But sadly, that's about the only one I could think of that might qualify.

Yeah, and that's what I'm afraid of. Our "wins" are just crap. I think that pick led to Doughty, which is nice, but after the huge bust, it was still such a pity trade.

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redskins0756

redskins0756

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I think that if we look at it as Coles = LOL and Moss = DEFINITELY can be counted on to make half-a-dozen game-breaking plays per season, then we definitely won.

Coles wasn't going to do anything here and wanted out. Instead of just letting him out, we got someone who has given us some pretty good memories in each season. I'd consider that pretty win.

Moss gave us good memories in 2005 aside from that season I can remember a fumble against Green Bay in 2007 that cost us the game, shining his shoes at the end of a game last year, and being injured for significant portions of the last 3 seasons. Yes we got value for Coles but if we're just analyzing the trade, it's difficult to say who "won" as both players haven't performed exceptionally on either of their respective teams. It just so happens the Jets could afford to release Coles because they saved $6M in cap.

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NewCliche21

NewCliche21

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Moss gave us good memories in 2005 aside from that season I can remember a fumble against Green Bay in 2007 that cost us the game, shining his shoes at the end of a game last year, and being injured for significant portions of the last 3 seasons. Yes we got value for Coles but if we're just analyzing the trade, it's difficult to say who "won" as both players haven't performed exceptionally on either of their respective teams. It just so happens the Jets could afford to release Coles because they saved $6M in cap.

Eh, 2005 he was on, 2006 he had a couple game-winners, 2007 he was on, 2008 he had a couple game-winners.

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redskins0756

redskins0756

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Eh, 2005 he was on, 2006 he had a couple game-winners, 2007 he was on, 2008 he had a couple game-winners.

2006 and 2007 he was playing hurt for most of those years and not very effective in the offense. 2008 he had a resurgence, but dropped passes once again plagued him. I just haven't seen the consistency from Moss to call him a "win" for this franchise. If you had asked me this 3 years ago after the 2005 season I would have emphatically said a HUGE win for us.

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pyro281

pyro281

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];6161902']We hands down' date=' no contest, without a doubt, certainly, undoubtedly won the Portis trade.

Someone- Argue with me.[/quote']

Ok, if you insist....(channeling my Devil's advocate side)

We lost the Portis trade, how can you not see that!

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bushwack

bushwack

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];6161902']We hands down' date=' no contest, without a doubt, certainly, undoubtedly won the Portis trade.

Someone- Argue with me.[/quote']

I can't...because I agree with you. Without Portis our offense would be even worse, and we wouldn't have made the playoffs in '05 or '07. Denver's defense has been god awful for years, and they have only made the playoffs once since the trade, and Bailey has had injury problems the past 2 years. The 2nd round draft pick turned into Tatum Bell, who was a complete waste. All we got in return was the best RB in Redskins history.

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redskins0756

redskins0756

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];6161902']We hands down' date=' no contest, without a doubt, certainly, undoubtedly won the Portis trade.

Someone- Argue with me.[/quote']

It's difficult to judge that trade because Portis' impact is more easily identifiable since he has received 350+ touches a season. Bailey has played on an AWFUL defense with no pass rush (you thought our defensive line was bad take a look at these guys when Champ was there) and did a tremendous job there. I can't for certain say that it was a huge win for either side because Portis just hasn't returned to the same back he was in Denver, while Champ improved his play and became an elite corner. Both teams through those years were very mediocre so that makes it even more difficult not to mention we're trying to compare an offensive and defensive player.

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redskins0756

redskins0756

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I can't...because I agree with you. Without Portis our offense would be even worse, and we wouldn't have made the playoffs in '05 or '07. Denver's defense has been god awful for years, and they have only made the playoffs once since the trade, and Bailey has had injury problems the past 2 years. The 2nd round draft pick turned into Tatum Bell, who was a complete waste. All we got in return was the best RB in Redskins history.

Ahem, I think you mean John Riggins sir. ;)

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wildbill1952

wildbill1952

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Just remember that it wasn't a Moss = Coles trade. The team also agreed to pay a large part of Coles salary that year also which hurt our cap numbers. We lost.

Duckett trade, an absolutely positively stupid move. Why couldn't they at least have tried using Rock or Nehi? At least staying within the team wouldn't cost a draft pick. That was a move that just threw a draft pick away.

JT? All the South Florida papers said that JT was gone from the Dolphins. The coach of the Panthers said that the asking price was just too high. But in step the Skins. Parcells ate Vinny's lunch on that trade, and Vinny has no coach to blame it on. Not just because of the injury, but a little patience, a few weeks deeper into the pre-season and the Dolphins would have accepted less than a round 2 pick and a round 6 pick. They had already drafted two DE's, one as the first pick in the second round. And Parcells wouldn't even talk to JT. Parcells claims it was because he wears hearing aids. Yeah, right. He had already kicked out Zach Thomas and he was cleaning house. JT was in Parcell's sights. In comes Vinny to the rescue. Another stupid big name trade to add to the resume. We lost big time.

Lloyd. A 3rd and a 4th rounder for 25 catches in 2 years. Hokey Smokes, Bullwinkle! I suppose we could have given up a first and a second and made it worse.

Portis for Bailey + a second rounder. A win in that Bailey's infidelity made staying in DC an impossibility and he was going to be gone regardless. Plus no one can argue Portis' value to the team as not only a player, but as a leader. But I will argue that trading Bailey even up or Bailey and a 4th would have been better. I don't care when we lose the 4th round picks and later, but you find the majority of the Pro-Bowlers in the first and second rounds. In hindsight, trading Bailey without Portis for a second in 2003 and a second in 2004 could have brought us a Michael Turner or a Darren Sproles.

Rule of thumb: If it costs us a 5th, 6th or 7th round pick, it's not a big deal. They're crap shoots anyway. But first, second and third round picks need to be held on to.

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skeenzfan

skeenzfan

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];6161902']We hands down' date=' no contest, without a doubt, certainly, undoubtedly won the Portis trade.

Someone- Argue with me.[/quote']

How it turned out later is a different story but we did lose that trade from a pure transactions stand point. CB's and particulary shutdown CB are valued much higher than RB's. Bailey at that point in time was considered the best CB in the league and arguably one of the best since Sanders. Any other team besides us would have gotten portis and a pick in exchange for Bailey.

To illustrate my point you can take the example of Asamouagh of the Raiders. He is the premier shutdown corner in the league right now and sort of has teh same status that Bailey had back then. Do you think you can acquire him and a second round pick in exchange for any RB in the league? I would argue that even giving up Adrian Peterson will not land you Asamouagh and a second round pick. True shutdown corners are a rare breed while RB's are dime a dozen. This has been proven over the last few years in the NFL where teams have been able to plug in rookies and late round picks and still have a productive running game.

I think we could have had equally productive running game without Portis. Even though we all love his production and personality it is obvious that he is past his prime and lost his breakaway speed. I think the team would be much better served if there was a way to replace him with younger and cheaper backs. However his monster contract and Danny's love for him make such a scenario unlikely.

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