codeorama Posted May 14, 2003 Share Posted May 14, 2003 I registered my dogs and took them to a new "Bark Park" in my area. The park is awsome and the people and dogs were great. My younger dog is 2 and he was a pain in the a$$. He barked right from the get go and was very territorial. He doesn't ususally act like this at home and plays with other dogs with out any problem. But he kept snapping at other dogs and chased a few. Does anyone have any experience with anything like this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poidog22 Posted May 14, 2003 Share Posted May 14, 2003 Man, I'd love to help you there code, but we're taking our dog to obedience classes now and haven't learned much except teaching the devil dog not to jump on people....as much. As far as I can tell from the classes we've taken up to this point, you should always have some bite-sized treats on you when you take your dog to a social enviornment like a dog park. If nothing else, you should be able to get your dogs' attention by bribery. If we learn anything that addresses the problems you've been having with your pup, I'll let you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted May 14, 2003 Author Share Posted May 14, 2003 Originally posted by poidog22 Man, I'd love to help you there code, but we're taking our dog to obedience classes now and haven't learned much except teaching the devil dog not to jump on people....as much. As far as I can tell from the classes we've taken up to this point, you should always have some bite-sized treats on you when you take your dog to a social enviornment like a dog park. If nothing else, you should be able to get your dogs' attention by bribery. If we learn anything that addresses the problems you've been having with your pup, I'll let you know. That was actually very helpful. I hadn't thought of that. I did notice a few other people with treats and didn't pay it much mind, but I will try that today. Thanks for the advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dchogs Posted May 14, 2003 Share Posted May 14, 2003 what do you expect code. your dog is apparantly very bright and knows that the park is a "bark" park. try taking him to a "quiet" park. he may know the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Symbol Posted May 14, 2003 Share Posted May 14, 2003 Well, don't know how much this helps, but I've heard if you get the dogs fixed, they're less aggressive. I own a snake and a spider, so don't know much about conventional pets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbear Posted May 14, 2003 Share Posted May 14, 2003 At the dog park, did you leave him on his leash? My fiance and I took our dog to the dog park near Philly when we first got him. We'd gotten him from a rescue league, and we weren't real sure how he would interact. As a result, we left him on the leash because we didn't relish the thought of our 20 lb boston terrier trying to play big man on campus with my mom's chocolate lab or any other big dog. Jake (my dog) definitely barked, but by the second time, we took him off the leash because he wasn't fiesty anymore. Of course we still had to tell the other dog owners there not to pay any attention to him. He still barks and growls whenever people he doesn't know pay any attention to him. Funny thing about that though is that his barking and growling is always followed by him running back to hide behind us with his tail between his legs. I've never seen a more affectionate dog to people he's comfortabel with, but he is terrible with people he doesn't know. It's worse if it's just my fiance too, because he won't run behind her. He thinks she needs protection. Of course if he's ignored, he ignores all other people too. He won't even take treats from new people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted May 14, 2003 Author Share Posted May 14, 2003 We left him on a leash at first but quickly realized that was the wrong thing to do. (the other people said it makes them feel trapped). He was off the leash after that. He didn't try to fight any other dog or anything like that, but he was just real uptight. I'm guessing that he was just scared and didn't know what to make of 20 dogs running all over the place sniffing each other's butts. We're going to take him again today and see what happens. Hopefully, he will be less scared and enjoy himself a little more. Eveyone's advice had been awsome, I appreciate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redman Posted May 15, 2003 Share Posted May 15, 2003 At the advice of a trainer, I've put Molly on a "prong collar" for training. She's great with people, but barks and growls at other dogs, and even gets her hackles up. It's funny actually because she's still a pupply. Anyway, the prong collar looks like a torture device, but it really works. While on the leash, I've corrected her (quickly jerked back on the leash, which tightens the collar, and then immediately released) and said "no bark!" when she growls or barks at other dogs who just happen to be nearby. After only two days and maybe 4 corrections, she no longer does it, at least on a leash. The prong collar, when used correctly, simulates the mother grabbing the dog by the neck when she corrects it, and it won't be misunderstood by the dog. Timing is everything BTW; you must correct within a second of the dog barking or it won't understand what you're corrrecting. As for the leash making her "feel trapped", that's BS. The leash, if anything, makes the dog excited because it symbolizes going out for a walk, but it also forces the dog to focus on you and what you want, which is key here. The dog is acting defensively because it feels threatened by a foreign environment. Depending on the dog, it may also feel protective of you. Simply show the dog that that behavior is not appropriate, and it will catch on in a hurry. Also, make sure that you don't fixate on the problem or on the other dogs in the park. Simply act normal, correct the bad behavior and move on. That's how dogs do it in the pack. They hold no grudges and they don't correct puppies out of anger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted May 15, 2003 Share Posted May 15, 2003 Well said Redman. We also trained our first dog with a prong. Code, our puppy was a bit skidish when going to the dog park. Try keeping the dog on the leash, and sitting him dow to meet other dogs as the come over. Keeping the dog in a controled situation helps a lot to get use to groups of dogs. PM Tommy the Greek, I'm sure he can give you some better insight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy-the-Greek Posted May 15, 2003 Share Posted May 15, 2003 Wow, Redman. I am impressed. You learn very quickly. I think you did choose the right breed. Or just maybe the breed chose you.:cool: Code, If your 2 year old has a dominate streak in him maybe you shouldn't let him off the leash. Don't listen to that being trapped crap. Some dogs just shouldn't be allowed off a leash in public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted May 15, 2003 Share Posted May 15, 2003 Code what kind of dog is it? Has it been fixed or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted May 15, 2003 Author Share Posted May 15, 2003 My dogs are Springer Spaniels and both have been nuetered. We went to the park again yesterday and my wife took Cody in first and I stayed outside with Murphy. He was freaking out at first, but after about 10 minutes he calmed down, then we went in side the park and he was a model citizen. He did so well, I was proud of him. Thanks for the help everyone, I appreciate it greatly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlsbadd Posted May 15, 2003 Share Posted May 15, 2003 I am sure you found out already code that you pooch was just a little freaked. Many dogs show aggression as a fear response to new social situations. I got a dog from the pound 5 years ago and he bit everything in sight for the first year I had him and with a ton of work he is now a model citizen. I mean this dog did not even know how to greet other dogs(Butt sniff) and would just try to bite other dogs when they ran by. It took me 2 years to get his head right. It seems your dog will be just fine after a few more visits to the park he will develop great social skills. Consider yourself blessed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redman Posted May 15, 2003 Share Posted May 15, 2003 Glad to here your progress, code. Clearly, you just had a dog that was not used to this new, chaotic situation. I would simply add that unless and until you know that your dog is 100% fine with the situation, don't let it off the leash. And I mean that in a variety of ways. First of all, you don't want the dog to be scared at all any more, because that's the primary reason for bites to occur (which runs counter to stereotype). Second, you don't want a bigger/more dominant dog to attack it which might create psychological scars in your dog that never leave. Make sure your dog not only loses its fear at that location, but also gains enough confidence with other dogs such that should you encounter the rare aggressive dog, it won't make her fear all other dogs. And tommy, yeah, I absolutely love my pup! But she's the most challenging dog I've ever had, and has a big-time dominance streak. Fortunately, she loves us to death, so the only struggle we have really comes down to her drives, which we can deal with. But I've done my homework and have what I believe is a good understanding as to how to deal with her and get her to behave the way she needs to. The last thing we need is a 90+ pound GSD that thinks no rules apply to her! BTW, my wife (who as you recall has zero experience with dogs) is doing great as well. As some of you may recall, she was whining to me about Germans Shepherds being scary before we got our pup, which I knew I'd defeat by getting her a cute puppy. She cracks me up with the way that she dotes over Molly. Anyway, yesterday when we received her AKC registration packet, we discussed buying veterenary insurance for her as part of the deal. My wife said, "You know, I used to think people who talked about spending $1000 or more to help their injured dog were crazy, but who am I kidding, I'd do it too!" I laughed and said, "Your conversion is complete. You're now a dog person!" :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted May 15, 2003 Author Share Posted May 15, 2003 carlsbad, you are right, the fear was the biggest thing, I think keeping him outside of the fence and letting him calm down was the right thing to do. Murph is a serious butt sniffer. redman, your'e right on all counts.. Murph is off the leash, but we keep a close eye on him, yesterday, he never came close to showing any agression. It was actually fun rather than stressful. I've taken some pics and I'll post them when I have a chance. I'm in a training class at work and have been out of the office for a few days and can only check the boards during breaks.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted May 15, 2003 Share Posted May 15, 2003 We take our dogs with my in-laws dogs to the off leash park as well. You do not want a dog on a leash around dogs off a leash if possible. The leash makes the dog on a leash frantic and the dog off a leash concerned so it doesn't work. My wife and I as well as our in-laws have one Siberian Husky and one Shih Tzu each. The Huskies don't ever get off a leash except at this park and they love it. I wouldn't bring treats though. Or, I wouldn't bring them openly . First, my dog doesn't care a bit for threats. Human food, yes, but not dog treats. Second, if the other dogs get a whiff of you they will simply follow you around the whole time and the owners will get mad at you . The only way, really, to get your dogs used to that type of environment is to socialize them so it's normal. With my dogs, we've taken them everywhere so they are always seeing and experiencing new things so they don't go crazy. They don't bark anyway, so that's a plus . My in-laws dogs are much more difficult. The Shih Tzu is afraid of other dogs. The Husky was given up twice before we got her and she's had some socialization issues, but now is normal. It's really just experience and patience. As Redman said, correct bad behavior and act normal. Your pups will get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy-the-Greek Posted May 15, 2003 Share Posted May 15, 2003 I am glad you got your GSD registered Redman. My male is AKC registered. I took him to the vets last week and he weighed in at 118lbs. He is a monster for a GSD, but I knew he was going to be. I got the pick of the litter and he was about 4 lbs bigger then the next pup. I would never let him off the leash in a public setting with other dogs running around free. There are too many variables to that equation to go into here. Code, I could have typed up a 5 page post about the do's and don'ts but I was too tired last night. You know your Dog better then anyone else. Taking a 2yr.old dog to a place like that for the first time would be hard on any dog. I am happy to hear he seems to be adjusting well and has calmed down. I have had too many bad expierences with people letting there dogs off there leashes in parks. No matter how well your dog is trained you never know about the other dog. The best trained dog in the world will defend itself or try to protect you if it percieves the other dog a threat. I have had quite a few run in's with untrained pit bulls around my home. I carry a break bar with me when I walk my dogs. Redman you should get one or make one and keep it in your pocket when you walk Molly just in case. I hope you will never have to use it. I had to use one time and it really scared the hell out of me. If I didn't have the break bar and the know how on how to properly use it there would be one less pit bull in this world. I love dogs with a passion and it wasn't the pit's fault it wasn't trained and had a moron for a owner. My female is registered in 4 countries. She is registered in Germany/Swiss/Austria and of course America. She has more papers then I do. She is a wonderful GSD. I could let her off the leash anywhere and feel 100% confident she wouldn't start any problems. She listens to all of my verbal and hand commands all the time. But I still wouldn't let her off the leash for fear of other untrained dogs. I know for a fact that worst case scenerio she will break off another dog at my command. My male is why I carry the bar and the off chance that I would have to break another dogs bite and release something from it's grip. If you own a big dog you should learn how to do this. You must stay calm and do it right and when you get home you can break down like I did. :puke: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted May 15, 2003 Author Share Posted May 15, 2003 Art, You are exactly right about the treats... the park rules forbid it, but one lady had a waist pack filled with treats and all the dogs mobbed her.. she had to get help from the ranger.. that was funny..:laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted May 15, 2003 Share Posted May 15, 2003 Redman you should get one or make one and keep it in your pocket when you walk Molly just in case. I hope you will never have to use it. I had to use one time and it really scared the hell out of me. If I didn't have the break bar and the know how on how to properly use it there would be one less pit bull in this world. Ok Tommy, enlighten me on this subject. We have a problem in our area with loose dogs. We have had more pit bull attacks in the last year then I care to hear about. I'm always uptight when walking Raisa in our area. I'm twice as uptight when my wife and daughter take her out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy-the-Greek Posted May 16, 2003 Share Posted May 16, 2003 A break bar was invented by dog fighters to pull the dogs apart at the end of a round. The ref would take this piece of wood insert it into the dogs jaw to get it's mouth open enough to free the other dog. It is shaped kinda like a pie wedge. You would put it in the dogs jaw at the space in the teeth right before the back molars and then turn it a 1/4 turn and it would pry the dog's mouth open. To do this you have to almost mount the dog from behind and place your calfs inside the dogs rear haunches and grab the dog's neck firmly with your left hand as you insert the bar into it's mouth with your right hand and then turn it. Depending on the length and width and angle of the bar it will open the dog's mouth 2-3 inches enough to get the other dog out. My father showed my brothers and I how to do this when we were young teens just in case. I saw him do it two times for real when I was a kid but thought I would never have to do it myself. Remember there was times when I was a kid we had over 2 dozen shepherds at a time not counting pups. He would never have them all out of the pens in the same area at the same time, but when females went into heat the males could all smell it and that is when all hell could break loose. My Dad made my breaker for me years ago and I have always kept it close by when walking my dogs in public after seeing how effective it is in a worst case scenerio. And that for people who don't know too much about dogs is when one dog has another in a death grip on the neck area and is shaking the other trying to break it's neck and it won't break the grip on command. This is a horrific site and one I hope I never see again. I was walking my dogs one morning and a large male pit about 60-70 lbs came running towards us. I started thinking to myself this dog is nuts coming after 2 sheps protecting there master. It dove at my male and my male met it in air and slapped it to the ground and went for it's neck he had it and I commanded him to leave it as I pulled the chain back and he just ripped 2 chunks of blood and fur from it's neck in 2 straight lines from it's front canines. The pit yelped and cried and ran away. I was barking orders to my dogs to heal and sit and they did. The pit ran about 30-40 feet away and turned and came back for more this time he came after my female and she got him on the snout and wasn't going to let him go I commanded her to leave it as I pulled back her chain and it ripped 2 more lines/chunks out of it's nose. The pit let out another high pitch wail and was now all bloody from it's neck to it's nose. It ran away crying and yelping and I got my dogs to heal and sit again. The damn thing came back a third time and I knew my dogs weren't going to play around anymore and I didn't think I was going to be able to stop them. I seriously thought my male was going to kill it this time. I dropped his chain and pulled my female back. I commanded her to sit and leave it and she did. The pit jumped and dove at my male again and my male met him in mid air. He slapped it to the ground and grabbed it by the neck in one swift motion and lifted it up off the ground and was shaking it to break it's neck. The pit was crying so loud it was horrible. My male wouldn't listen to commands and was going to kill it. The pit went limp and my male still wouldn't let it go. I used my break to get his mouth open with my right hand as my left hand had my females collar keeping her away. The pit dropped out of his mouth and I pulled my dogs back and got them to heal and sit. I thought I was too late and the pit lay there dead. I didn't notice at the time but I guess this event made so much noise that all my neighbors were looking out there windows and standing on there porches mouths hung open in shock. Then I looked the other way and this guy is running towards me in his underwear saying ohhhhhh my god oh my god I am so sorry... I left the gate open. He picked up his dog and then I could see it was barely alive. He ran back to his house and rushed it to the animal hospital. My neighbors then asked me if I was ok and my back started to hunch me over. Damn it hurt like hell and I didn't even feel it till it was over. I got my dogs back into my home and went back outside waiting for the cops to get there. The one guy told me he saw the whole thing and I didn't have anything to worry about. I told him I was worried that if that dog died they would take my dogs away from me. he said hell no if there was ever a case for self defense that was it. That I had control of my dogs on the leash and that dog attacked us and kept comming back for more and anyone else would have just dropped the chains and he thought I did everything possible to save that dog and keep mine away from his. But deep inside I know I lost control of my male. That was the first time I have ever lost control of one of my dogs. It scared the hell out of me. We have had 4-5 other incidents with other dogs off of a leash running towards us but I never lost control and my dogs always obeyed my commands. I know if I didn't have that bar that other dog would have been dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy-the-Greek Posted May 16, 2003 Share Posted May 16, 2003 Pete this isn't something you want to teach your wife or daughter how to do. Chances are you stick your hand that close you are going to get bit a few times. I would rather take a risk of getting bit and getting some stiches then letting a dog die and doing nothing to try to save it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted May 16, 2003 Share Posted May 16, 2003 Scarry stuff Tommy. Agreed, it's not something I could consider for the wife and kid. I walk the dog out in public most of the time, and have only had one close call with a huge black lab thus far. Thanks for the info bro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redman Posted May 16, 2003 Share Posted May 16, 2003 Amazing story, tommy. I assume your male and female were schutzhund trained (police dog for the GSD unwashed ). While that's disturbing, I really can't blame your male at all. He was defending not only himself, but you and your female too against a hyper-aggressive attacker. I'm thinking about training Molly beyond basic obedience, maybe even including schutzhund. She's very bright, and has the classic German work-drive and aggressivness. I can't train her by and large by using physical force because if I correct her by smacking her, she simply thinks I'm playing and bites at me. The only exception is when I'm using the prong collar, or when she's gnawing on me or my wife, in which case we squeeze her snout and tell her "no bite!" - of course she usually still tries to bite again, but it's reduced the problem to gentler, less frequent bites and more licks mixed in. :laugh: I'll have to look into that bite bar. I have a pit two doors down that's notorious for getting loose and charging people (hasn't happened to me yet), and I had to literally pick Molly up about a month ago and hurry her inside our gate when it was roaming in our next door neighbor's yard on the other side of the house. I'm told the woman's boyfriend or brother has an equally undisciplined pit bull. Can you post a picture of that bite bar to give me an idea what it looks like? The other remarkable thing about your story is what it tells you about GSD's. They are truly amazing because they're so damn smart. And it's not merely that they can be trained to perform a specific task like drug sniffing or bomb sniffing, like labs and goldens can be. The GSD's, especially when developed with proper training have what can only be described as ingenuity, and when that's put together with their tremendous athleticism and brave temperment, you have a pretty formidable dog. The fact that on three mad charges that pit didn't lay a tooth on either of your dogs - or you for that matter - tells you a lot. There are a lot of dogs that, however brave, would have waited for that dog to get to them before acting. Your GSD's smacked the pit down and took the initiative away from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redman Posted May 16, 2003 Share Posted May 16, 2003 tommy- one more thing. Because you're both interested in GSD's and message boards, check out this GSD message board. While I don't like the way it's organized - it's broken down into too many individual boards - it has an amazing level of participation for such a specialized topic. And there are a lot of people there who have a lot of good information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKurp Posted May 16, 2003 Share Posted May 16, 2003 I checked out that link Redman. Did you notice the B.A.R.F. forum listed on that board? Sorry, couldn't resist..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.