Fassel/Zorn Delegation

[Amateur Sketch]

I was part of the crowd cringing during the rampant Fassel speculation during the coaching search. But hear me out....

I still have hope for Zorn, but didn't it seem this year like he was way more interested in being an offensive coordinator than a head coach? I agree with Mike Lombardi (pro football post) that the most important role of a coach is to motivate his team, keep the chemistry positive and in-game management. It's an unspoken known that Zorn wasn't a great clock manager, isn't great with timeouts/challenges, and didn't make great in-game adjustments. When the cameras flash to the sideline it isn't surprising - you see Zorn immersed in his play sheet virtually the entire game. (infamous "what down is it" vs. the ravens)

His recent quote about giving up playcalling "no, i sorta like doing that" as he smurks may have been tongue in cheek but I get the sense that he is completely serious. He looves calling plays, and being OCD with the qbs b/c he used to play the position. It is almost Spurrier-esque.

Will he realize that he MUST delegate to be successful, or will he be willing to go under shouldering the whole load b/c he is really just a coordinator at heart? Look no further than the AFC title game at Tomlin and Harbaugh. Neither coaches offense or defense (Tomlin kept LeBeau despite running a 3-4 when he was a 4-3 expert with the Vikings). They focus on the GAME AS A WHOLE. Even Reid gave up calling plays. Zorn isn't smarter than everyone else in the league, plays are recycled and reused. He needs to realize that staying aware of what's going on in all phases of the game is more important.

So that brings me to my question: wouldn't Fassel have been better this year handling all of that stuff while Zorn and Blache ran their respective units? I know the guy doesn't have much charisma, but I believe it's critical for Zorn to delegate and become a "game-coach" instead of a glorified offensive-guru-who-keeps-track-of-the-game in order to survive his contract in DC. Let's hope he figures it out.

[IHOPSkins]

.....When the cameras flash to the sideline it isn't surprising - you see Zorn immersed in his play sheet virtually the entire game......

Or holding JCs hand

I would take it a step further

Zorn ESCAPES to QB Coach land.....its what he knows

[Koolblue13]

You make a good point and that is certainly one of the harder parts of the "next young hot coach" hire. It'll take him a while to learn and I certainly hope he does, because it certainly looks like he isn't going any where any time soon.

[Skinsinparadise]

Scary thing for me is the one thing he focused on most, being an offensive cooridnator didn't look IMO too pretty either. A lot of focus naturally went to Portis with his comments but in a couple of articles it was pointed out that other players quietly agree with Portis.

The latest issue of Warpath mentions that there is some internal grumbiling in the locker room with quotes including some players having "no faith" in the offensive staff and play calling, and a feeling that Zorn lacks "imagination" as a play caller.

I could be completely off on this but to my naked eye and based on what I read, really Zorn did one thing well this season and that is doing what he's done for years, be a good quarterback coach.

Otherwise, I am trying to get a handle on what Zorn was really good at this year? Motivating the team? Play calling? Keeping the locker room together? Clock management? Making in game adjustments?

[Dick Edds]

I was part of the crowd cringing during the rampant Fassel speculation during the coaching search. But hear me out....

I still have hope for Zorn, but didn't it seem this year like he was way more interested in being an offensive coordinator than a head coach? I agree with Mike Lombardi (pro football post) that the most important role of a coach is to motivate his team, keep the chemistry positive and in-game management. It's an unspoken known that Zorn wasn't a great clock manager, isn't great with timeouts/challenges, and didn't make great in-game adjustments. When the cameras flash to the sideline it isn't surprising - you see Zorn immersed in his play sheet virtually the entire game. (infamous "what down is it" vs. the ravens)

His recent quote about giving up playcalling "no, i sorta like doing that" as he smurks may have been tongue in cheek but I get the sense that he is completely serious. He looves calling plays, and being OCD with the qbs b/c he used to play the position. It is almost Spurrier-esque.

Will he realize that he MUST delegate to be successful, or will he be willing to go under shouldering the whole load b/c he is really just a coordinator at heart? Look no further than the AFC title game at Tomlin and Harbaugh. Neither coaches offense or defense (Tomlin kept LeBeau despite running a 3-4 when he was a 4-3 expert with the Vikings). They focus on the GAME AS A WHOLE. Even Reid gave up calling plays. Zorn isn't smarter than everyone else in the league, plays are recycled and reused. He needs to realize that staying aware of what's going on in all phases of the game is more important.

So that brings me to my question: wouldn't Fassel have been better this year handling all of that stuff while Zorn and Blache ran their respective units? I know the guy doesn't have much charisma, but I believe it's critical for Zorn to delegate and become a "game-coach" instead of a glorified offensive-guru-who-keeps-track-of-the-game in order to survive his contract in DC. Let's hope he figures it out.

sadly enough i agree (though at the time I was against Fassel, I thought Mooch was coming here) ... it's looking like we could have really used an experienced HC. Someone who knows how to delegate and speak to the media and motivate his players.

Zorn is still in way over his head IMO. I hope to eat crow btw. But i see a few rough years ahead of us, and eventually things getting completely blown up.

[Andre The Giant]

I hope to eat crow btw. But i see a few rough years ahead of us, and eventually things getting completely blown up.

Me too ... not too optimistic as to the state of affairs in Redskinland.

[Oldfan]

I was part of the crowd cringing during the rampant Fassel speculation during the coaching search. But hear me out....

I still have hope for Zorn, but didn't it seem this year like he was way more interested in being an offensive coordinator than a head coach? I agree with Mike Lombardi (pro football post) that the most important role of a coach is to motivate his team, keep the chemistry positive and in-game management.

I think the head coach's task as motivator is way overdone, but even if you are right, why would you think that Fassel would be the guy to get it done? He reportedly lost his job with the Giants for being too permissive with his players. Coughlin was hired and then accused of being too strict.

It's an unspoken known that Zorn wasn't a great clock manager, isn't great with timeouts/challenges, and didn't make great in-game adjustments.

He has to improve his preparation. This can be done by delegating more to Chris Meidt and others on game day. It isn't necessary that he give up play calling.

Will he realize that he MUST delegate to be successful, or will he be willing to go under shouldering the whole load b/c he is really just a coordinator at heart?

We will find out in 2009.

So that brings me to my question: wouldn't Fassel have been better this year handling all of that stuff while Zorn and Blache ran their respective units?

Fassel has his own ideas about the way the WCO should be run Just as Gibbs had his own ideas about the Coryell that conflicted with those of Al Saunders. We don't need that again.

The passing game is the key. The head coaching job should be the carrot to draw and hold a passing game guru to the team because it's the toughest coaching job in the game and there aren't many who can do it.

If Zorn can get his passing game in gear, the front office can get help for his shortcomings.

[Oldfan]

Scary thing for me is the one thing he focused on most, being an offensive cooridnator didn't look IMO too pretty either. A lot of focus naturally went to Portis with his comments but in a couple of articles it was pointed out that other players quietly agree with Portis.

I seriously doubt that Clinton Portis could lead anyone but the other chronic locker room malcontents. I think we need more players with the work ethic of Art Monk to lead by example.

Otherwise, I am trying to get a handle on what Zorn was really good at this year? Motivating the team? Play calling? Keeping the locker room together? Clock management? Making in game adjustments?

The offense was very good at controlling the ball, making few turnovers, and playing the field position game. The defense meanwhile did not do well in that phase of the game.

[PassAttack]

As inexperience comes into play with Zorn, spending a 100 hours a week as head coach and still not getting it done, will force him to delegate sooner and not later.

Its like going to a buffet and grabbing 3 plates of food to finish and you can only finish 1, soon after you will just grab 1 plate to finish. Zorn is no young coach, I think he is older than Dungy. I really don't think he has problems with his coaching skills, he will have to trust and mentor some of the other coaches, which will reduce him from multi-tasking himself to death.

[Pounds]

It's an unspoken known that Zorn wasn't a great clock manager, isn't great with timeouts/challenges, and didn't make great in-game adjustments.

I expect that next season he will be far better. Remember, he isn't the only first-timer in his position on the staff. Sherman Smith had never been OC prior to '08 and Chris Meidt was at St. Olaf a year ago.

His recent quote about giving up playcalling "no, i sorta like doing that" as he smurks may have been tongue in cheek but I get the sense that he is completely serious.

Why wouldn't he be? Once his players demonstrate a better understanding of their responsibilities in his offense, Zorn and his play-calling will look much improved.

It is almost Spurrier-esque.

I don't think that is fair to Zorn. Spurrier was a joke, Zorn actually takes his job seriously and assumes the responsibilities inherent in that job. Spurrier was a one-trick-pony with an offensive scheme predicated on the Danny Wuerffels and Trung Candidates of this world. Zorn is an actual, real-life NFL coach, not some sorry caricature of an NFL coach.

Will he realize that he MUST delegate to be successful

He already has.

Look no further than the AFC title game at Tomlin and Harbaugh.

Bad example. While those two are great coaches, neither of them have demonstrated Zorn's offensive prowess, nor where they hired for that particular expertise.

So that brings me to my question: wouldn't Fassel have been better this year handling all of that stuff

I'm over the retread HC. Success or failure, I'm glad Vinny tabbed Zorn over Fassel.

In keeping with your Harbaugh/Tomlin example, the trend (and it seems to be a winning one) points to the rookie HC. It's easier to build with them long-term, they have fresh perspective and likely, by virtue of having never been fired, are less jaded and thusly less internally divisive.

Let's hope he figures it out.

Hope springs eternal, or, at least in my response to you.

[Skinsinparadise]

I seriously doubt that Clinton Portis could lead anyone but the other chronic locker room malcontents. I think we need more players with the work ethic of Art Monk to lead by example.

The offense was very good at controlling the ball, making few turnovers, and playing the field position game. The defense meanwhile did not do well in that phase of the game.

OK, so in terms of players that we know besides Portis we got Kendall. So Kendall in your book I am gathering is a malcontent? As for the anoymous quotes, who do you gather in the locker room are the bad seeds? It's been said to death that this is a good locker with good team oriented players.

You've been on the mantra of ball control. As you like to challange others when they disagree with you, can you back your point that the Redskins offense was good this season in terms of ball control? I recall in some of their losses to bad teams like the Rams, they held on to the ball well, and to a degree earlier in the season but in the home stretch during their slide I recall a lot of three and outs.

But you are so insistent on them being good at it, that am open to being wrong on this point, to my naked eye they seemed average at ball control, some games good, some games not. I haven't studied it so am not saying your wrong, I just need some facts.

As I understand, you really like Zorn's slant, hitches and small play dominated play book because if it flows they'd march down the field slowly and score, thus resting the defense and keeping the opposing offense off the field. And it worked early at times like against Dallas.

But once teams caught on to it, its become pretty much a media cliche, that Zorn didn't adjust to the opposing teams adjustments. When the opposing defense is aware that they don't have to cover the bulk of the field and focus on these passes -- how hard is it to stop? A Ravens player was quoted on the radio after the game about how simple it is to figure out the Redskins offense. Don't know why its so shocking that some Redskins players think Zorn's play calling lacks "imagination."

Look am all cool with the West Coast offense where I gather we disagree is to paraphrase Brian Mitchell who played some West Coast in Philly -- there is more to the West Coast than short passes.

I recall under Walsh Jerry Rice catching the ball in the middle of the field at times, 20-25 yard catches and sprinting to the end zone -- it wasn't just Jerry here's a 5 yard slant move it two yards or take that one to town. There seems to be more variety and more usuage of different parts of the field in the west coast offenses I have watched.

Heck you saw it in Seattle versus the Redskins in the playoffs a season ago with how they worked Shawn Springs for example -- they weren't killing Springs with 5 yards slants but with 15-20 yard curls, etc.

[Warpath11]

I think as Zorn grows more comforatable with his staff and they buy into/understand his schemes he will relinquish some of the responsibilites he had to shoulder this year. I think Chris Meidt will make a great QB coach, as soon as Zorn gains a bit more trust in him and they both get on the same page in terms of what they want to teach and how they want to teach it.

Also Chris Meidt is a very good mathematician so he could be a good resource for Zorn on game days up in the booth, ala Ernie Adams for Bill Belichick.

[The Full Monty]

As much as Zorn's coaching and game management frustrated me this past year, I have to see how he improves going into next year.

[corsair_joe]

He is trying to do too much at once, and Campbell constantly needing his hand held and to be walked through everything is only making it worse. The lack of overall management on the field on gameday was very clear, especially in the 2nd half of the season.

[clarkskin]

Zorn will be fine. We are going to be much better off with him than we would have been with Fassel. He's not a re-tread, he's yet to prove himself and is hungry to succeed. Remember, we were all talking coach of the year after the 6-2 start. Have patience and stick by him for a while..the last thing we need is ANOTHER regime change. We are too close to being a very good team for an overhaul.

[Ernie5]

Zorn is still in way over his head IMO. I hope to eat crow btw. But i see a few rough years ahead of us, and eventually things getting completely blown up.

I don't see this. Zorn made mistakes fairly common to first year coaches. His red flag challenges became more effective as the year wound on and his clock management was, frankly, superior to that of Gibbs. I didn't always agree w/his clock management, but when he explained it post-game, it was clear he had a plan and, for the most part, knew what he was doing.

I didn't love the lack of urgency in those situations, but I think Zorn very badly wants to increase the pace and urgency in his offense during all parts of a game, so that ought to improve. If Zorn doesn't allow himself to get conservative, I think he'll do a great job and the team will benefit.

[Oldfan]

OK, so in terms of players that we know besides Portis we got Kendall. So Kendall in your book I am gathering is a malcontent?

He certainly was with the Jets. In addition to his contract dispute, he balked when they asked him to play part-time at center. The Jets had to take what they could get for him.

As for the anoymous quotes, who do you gather in the locker room are the bad seeds?

I don't know. I'd really like to know who the defensive player was who submarined Gregg Williams last season.

It's been said to death that this is a good locker with good team oriented players.

I think that's generally true. Every team has its malcontents, though. It's human nature.

You've been on the mantra of ball control. As you like to challange others when they disagree with you, can you back your point that the Redskins offense was good this season in terms of ball control?

I've already done so. The point was thoroughly debated and supported in my thread which took the position that the offense was being underrated and the defense overrated.

As I understand, you really like Zorn's slant, hitches and small play dominated play book because if it flows they'd march down the field slowly and score, thus resting the defense and keeping the opposing offense off the field. And it worked early at times like against Dallas...But once teams caught on to it, its become pretty much a media cliche, that Zorn didn't adjust to the opposing teams adjustments.

I never saw that in the media. I read a few posts in this forum speculating on that point, but it doesn't make much sense. Jim Zorn has been using basic vanilla WCO plays since the preseason, plays that have been around for 30 years. Defenses didn't suddenly figure out how to stop them after we went 6-2.

The second-half slide was more likely due to the fact that we played some better defenses in the second half and the injury factor at one position -- all three of our OTs were playing hurt during the 2-6 finish. Our roster is too thin to cover injuries at such a critical position.

Don't know why its so shocking that some Redskins players think Zorn's play calling lacks "imagination."

What shocks me is why the Redskins players, or anyone else, would think that getting more creative with the plays would help when the players couldn't execute the basic plays well.

Look am all cool with the West Coast offense where I gather we disagree is to paraphrase Brian Mitchell who played some West Coast in Philly -- there is more to the West Coast than short passes.

Well, of course there is, and I expect to see more next year; but I don't want a big play offense like Philly's built around, and dependent on, the health of two players to make it go.

[HailGreen28]

I don't know. I'd really like to know who the defensive player was who submarined Gregg Williams last season.

LOL! What happened?

[Oldfan]

LOL! What happened?

I might have mis-led you referring to "last season." I'm referring to Feinstein's 2007 article quoting an unidentified Redskin. You didn't miss that fiasco, did you?

[HailGreen28]

I might have mis-led you referring to "last season." I'm referring to Feinstein's 2007 article quoting an unidentified Redskin. You didn't miss that fiasco, did you?

Yeah, I did. (or just don't remember).. What was that about?

[HailSkinz1]

I don't agree at all. We have no idea how Fassel would have done, but I do know that he would have been clobbered by fans and media for every mistake he made. I think most people are still willing to give Zorn a "honeymoon" period. The unfortunate thing to me is that he still has to coach the QB as if the QB is in Junior High School. If Zorn had players that were good enough to play, he could focus on being the head coach.

Furthermore, look how many coachs/coordinators we've had over the past few years. And every year we blame the coach or coordinator. Maybe they deserve the blame, but let's not keep giving the players like JC, Portis, Moss, etc, a free ride. Maybe the players just aren't that damn good, you know.

(Queue the "get rid of Vinny" sentiment....)

Hail,

H

[Oldfan]

Yeah, I did. (or just don't remember).. What was that about?

Let's see...tesing my memory -- Gregg as egotistical...unliked by his troops...his assistants didn't speak...one assistant got miffed and refused to coach his troops in a game...lack of communication...safeties met separately from the other DBs... Williams made disparaging remarks about Gibbs's coaching.. that kind of stuff.

[Fieldy]

Wasn't the whole coaching staff in place (including Zorn as OC) before he was promoted to HC? That would mean that most of the coaching staff was not his. That could be why he doesn't trust some of them. Honestly, out of all the OCs out there that they could bring in, I like the OC from Seattle if he's gone when Mora, Jr takes over. Zorn knows him, trusts him, and will feel more comfortable handing off some of the offensive duties.

[Warpath11]

Honestly, out of all the OCs out there that they could bring in, I like the OC from Seattle if he's gone when Mora, Jr takes over. Zorn knows him, trusts him, and will feel more comfortable handing off some of the offensive duties.

You are thinking of Gil Haskell and he is already available as Jim Mora Jr. brought in his own guy to be the offensvie coordinator (Greg Knapp). Having said that Zorn's hand-picked offensive coordinator is already on the staff, Sherman Smith. Not sure what position Haskell would get (Id assume an Al Sanuders like assistant head coach-offense) and how would Sherman Smith react to such a decision. Not only that but Zorn has already said that he enjoys calling the plays and does not want to give that up, so the question becomes what would Haskell do?

[SB17]

... Look no further than the AFC title game at Tomlin and Harbaugh. Neither coaches offense or defense ...

Speaking of not coaching offense or defense, what does Wade Phillips do? He's got Garrett as the OC, but does he take care of the defense? Because it looks to me like he's listening to the radio play-by-play and that he might fall asleep on the sidelines. IMO, I'm not sure if not coaching either side when you're the HC is a plus or a minus.