Oh No Dey Didn't (Suppose no OL/DL in the Draft?)

[Thinking Skins]

This post is mainly inspired by Reaganaut's post on the Redskins possibly drafting a QB in the draft. I kinda felt like his thread was hijacked into a debate of whether or not a QB should be picked, which I don't think was his argument.

I'm definately in favor of drafting one of those positions, and so I will not even try to rationalize why they wouldn't. My first choice is for a DT who can collapse the pocket, but honestly I'd be satisfied with some other picks.

That being said, I've hoped and prayed for a DL pick for the last few years, and each year I had to put a smile on my face and root for the team I love. So I kinda want to hear what would people think if the Redskins drafted differently.

I remember in 2008, I wanted a DL and we got WRs. I wasn't too upset because I felt that those would be good contributors and did address a weakness on this team, and I thought we got at least two first round talents for second round prices.

In 2007, we got Landry. I wanted Okoye, but I wasn't too upset with Landry and was quickly thinking about the combo of Sean Taylor and Laron Landry and how that would help our secondary.

In 2006, I wanted DL and we got Rocky, Montgomery and Golston. I wasn't too upset because I thought Montgomery could be a steal if he played up to his potential. I still feel that way, but I feel that he's more likely to be a guy who makes a good play here and there, but won't consistently be doing much.

I can't go back any further because my memory isn't too well any more (I'm gettin old, I'm almost 30 :doh:).

But the main point of my question is Suppose that instead of addressing the lines we got:

- a top tier QB who falls to us (like in 2005 when Aaron Rogders fell)

- a RB with the talent of an Adrian Peterson

- a WR who can take over a game like Larry Fitzgerald (with college experience and good knees)

- a TE (like Chris Cooley)

- an OLB like Lavar Aarington (fresh out of college)

- an ILB like Ray Lewis

- a safety like Ed Reed

- a CB like Deion Sanders

If they spent a first rounder on a K or P, I'd just have to start watching soccer. We're not even going to address that option.

I guess what I'm asking is, "is there any position/player that the skins could draft this year thats NOT an OL/DL that you'd be OK with?"

Quick Edit: I've read almost NO articles on this year's upcoming draft class. So I don't know if there are any such players at any of these positions. This is just a "what if" game.

[chipwhich]

If wishes and buts were candy and nuts.....

Seriously, you win by building in your trenches.

We have 4 picks. You have candy and nuts.

[Laron Burgundy]

Truth be told, yes. Of course it completely depends on that player's future production. If the player we draft is an elite player, then I don't really care what position it is they draft. Of course we need OL or DL, and we're hoping the best for one of those picks. But if we draft an OL and he is the next Robert Gallery, then yeah, probably would have rather drafted another receiver or defensive back.

[AFskinsfan]

I guess it depends on what happens in Free Agency. If we were to addres the O and D line in that way, then I gues BPA would be acceptible. However, I dont feel we would be building anything for the future that way. It is something that I see as a high probability.

[Thinking Skins]

If wishes and buts were candy and nuts.....

Seriously, you win by building in your trenches.

We have 4 picks. You have candy and nuts.

I understand what you're saying, but I just gave you examples where the Redskins ignored their needs along the lines. I can also give you examples where other teams did the same. Look at the Steelers, who drafted Mendenhall last year (followed by Sweed), ignoring needs on their OL, but they're in the championship game.

[The Sisko]

I guess what I'm asking is, "is there any position/player that the skins could draft this year thats NOT an OL/DL that you'd be OK with?"

No. A thousand times NO!!!

If we draft anything other than OL or DL with our first pick it will be proof positive that the F.O. has lost it's mind. Even if the next Mike Singletary/Dan Marino/D. Green/Ronnie Lott/J. Rice is sitting there the only viable thing to do is to rape somebody for a boatload of picks, trade down and then go OL (preferably) or DL.

[Kurd Cudins]

While my hope is that we get an OT in the 1st and a C in the 3rd, I would not be upset if either of those was an OLB. I don't think people realize that is probably our weakest position. If Washington is released, it's by far our weakest position.

[Thinking Skins]

No. A thousand times NO!!!

If we draft anything other than OL or DL with our first pick it will be proof positive that the F.O. has lost it's mind. Even if the next Mike Singletary/Dan Marino/D. Green/Ronnie Lott/J. Rice is sitting there the only viable thing to do is to rape somebody for a boatload of picks, trade down and then go OL (preferably) or DL.

Yeah right. And how many fans are gonna be saying how we missed out on the next Mike Singletary/Dan Marino/D. Green/Ronnie Lott/J. Rice? Especially if the guy we pick winds up being mediocre or a bust!

I'm not doubting you (maybe a little), but I am doubting that the Redskins base feels this same way. If we wind up drafting a superstar player who is setting rookie records and doing stuff like going for the rookie of the year (especially if we have a winning record next year), then I find it hard to believe that fans will not be as forgiving (the same way we were when many of us wanted Okoye or a DE and we got Landry).

[skinsfan190]

If we got Rey Maualuga I would still be estatic, but thats probably it. We must address Oline or Dline at 13. I have a good feeling we will be able to trade out of 13 and get a pick in the 20's plus a 2nd rounder. This is definately best case sernario.

I think Rey would be a great fit into our strongside linebacker slot until London retires, then he could move over to middle. At the end of the day though we have a lot of great talent to pick from. I think these are the most realistic players at 13.

Michael Oher

Eugene Monroe

Jason Smith (one of the 3 tackles will fall to 13)

B.J Raji

Everette Brown(My Fav)

If we trade back:

Duke Robinson

B.J Raji

Peria Jerry(I like Raji a lot more)

Greg Hardy

Ciron Black

[NoVaSkins21]

There is no position player worth foregoing OL or DL. Not even Micheal Crabtree. If they ignore the OL or DL, I think we're looking at a 6 wins or fewer next year.

[SkinzNIrishFan]

I agree with everyone that we need line help badly but if we stray from that need as usual then the only guy that would please me would be LB Aaron Curry from Wake Forest.....he is going to be a good one

[chipwhich]

I understand what you're saying, but I just gave you examples where the Redskins ignored their needs along the lines. I can also give you examples where other teams did the same. Look at the Steelers, who drafted Mendenhall last year (followed by Sweed), ignoring needs on their OL, but they're in the championship game.

Yeah but the steelers haven't been ignoring their lines for a decade plus.

I am not saying every year you have to draft lineman. But you can't ignore them every year either. Given we have chosen the latter approach, I chose lineman. Lets build in the trenches, then we can draft safety year over year.

[Dr. Terrapin]

PLEASE....We need to....

[Thinking Skins]

There is no position player worth foregoing OL or DL. Not even Micheal Crabtree. If they ignore the OL or DL, I think we're looking at a 6 wins or fewer next year.

I think its a bit early to say that. We haven't had the Senior Bowl or the Scouting combine. What if we hear about the top 4 OTs having drug histories or injuries? What if BJ Raji has a record? What if these guys do horrible at the combine?

And moreso, what if other players who are possible elite players slip in the draft because we're not the only team that needs OL and DL. Suppose (a wacky case, I know) but suppose the first 12 picks in the draft are all OL and DL? And we have our choice amongst all the "best of the rest", are you saying you wouldn't want your choice in the top skill positions in this year's draft?

[Thinking Skins]

Yeah but the steelers haven't been ignoring their lines for a decade plus.

I am not saying every year you have to draft lineman. But you can't ignore them every year either. Given we have chosen the latter approach, I chose lineman. Lets build in the trenches, then we can draft safety year over year.

What do you call 'ignoring'. We have added linemen every year. Last year we added Rinehart and Geisinger. Before that we added Heyer. We've also added free agents. We have been addressing the OL.

Similarly we haven't been 'ignoring' the DL. Last year we added E. James (disappointment), Rob Jackson. Before that we added Chris Wilson. Before that we added Montgomery and Golston. And we also have been adding free agents. Carter was a big addition, so was Daniels. The biggest was Griffin.

The problem with both these units is that age is catching up to them and we don't have the talent to replace the starters. The player I think is deteriating the most is Griffin, as he's only a shell of his former self. But what if we added a guy like Haynesworth (who I'm not for) or another FA to address that position (even an OL too). Would you still call that not addressing the DL.

I think what you meant to say is that we've been "ignoring the lines with our high draft picks", which I more or less agree with. But it remains a question of whether a team NEEDS to draft linemen with their high draft picks to succeed.

[Thinking Skins]

OK, I just read NFL Draft pool runs deep...here’s why, and aside from the normal stuff about Juniors going pro and this being a deep draft, it offered this quote:

Another factor motivating college football players this year, however, is speculation that a rookie pay scale will be implemented by the NFL sooner than later, which means players will not be able to negotiate a bigger contract. Commissioner Roger Goodell said that won’t happen before the next collective bargaining agreement, but you get the picture: The color of the jersey players hold up on draft day doesn’t really matter; the only color that does is green.

Now, the rational side of me says that if the draft is deep then maybe that means that most positions are deep, so that means that maybe the OL and DL are also deep. And I do worry that Vinny will see these positions as being deep as meaning that he can draft a 'playmaker' in round 1 and then come back in round 2 (if we make a trade and pick up a pick) or round 3 and draft OL or DL. I'm not entirely opposed to this strategy, but I really want BJ Raji.

But I think I want good players more....I know this sounds stupid, but I really hope Vinny knows what he's doing.

[chipwhich]

What do you call 'ignoring'. We have added linemen every year. Last year we added Rinehart and Geisinger. Before that we added Heyer. We've also added free agents. We have been addressing the OL.

Similarly we haven't been 'ignoring' the DL. Last year we added E. James (disappointment), Rob Jackson. Before that we added Chris Wilson. Before that we added Montgomery and Golston. And we also have been adding free agents. Carter was a big addition, so was Daniels. The biggest was Griffin.

The problem with both these units is that age is catching up to them and we don't have the talent to replace the starters. The player I think is deteriating the most is Griffin, as he's only a shell of his former self. But what if we added a guy like Haynesworth (who I'm not for) or another FA to address that position (even an OL too). Would you still call that not addressing the DL.

I think what you meant to say is that we've been "ignoring the lines with our high draft picks", which I more or less agree with. But it remains a question of whether a team NEEDS to draft linemen with their high draft picks to succeed.

Uh ignoring is in a DECADE drafting essentially no lineman with QUALITY draft picks?????

Seriously I shouldn't have to explain this to you....so I wont. If you choose to play dumb thats ok.

Our lineman have been ignored. If you think undrafted FA and 5/6/7 round picks are attentive to the line then I can't have a discussion with you.

[Mercuryrising]

I think its a bit early to say that. We haven't had the Senior Bowl or the Scouting combine. What if we hear about the top 4 OTs having drug histories or injuries? What if BJ Raji has a record? What if these guys do horrible at the combine?

And moreso, what if other players who are possible elite players slip in the draft because we're not the only team that needs OL and DL. Suppose (a wacky case, I know) but suppose the first 12 picks in the draft are all OL and DL? And we have our choice amongst all the "best of the rest", are you saying you wouldn't want your choice in the top skill positions in this year's draft?

What if a plane crashes into the combine and the only players left are those not invited???? Seriously, where are you going with all of this? Teams that want a certain type of player slot themselves accordingly. All 12 teams in front of us will not take linemen, especially if the guy that they are taking top 10 should go late first round - early 2nd. Unless your name is Vinnie and you are buddies with the owner, doing stuff like that could be hazzardous to your career.

I know we are used to certain things with Vinnie, but most teams are run by professionals.

We need top-notch linemen (not 5-7 round fodder). I expect Vinnie to figure out where we need to be in rounds 1-2 to get them.

[ArsheimSkins]

There is no position player worth foregoing OL or DL. Not even Micheal Crabtree. If they ignore the OL or DL, I think we're looking at a 6 wins or fewer next year.

I think no matter what we're looking at 6 or fewer wins. But I'm looking at it in a positive way. How so? Few steps back to take LEAPS forward like the Giants did until last year. That team's O-Line and D-Line are just sick. Eli blew it Sunday.

[darrelgreenie]

I guess what I'm asking is, "is there any position/player that the skins could draft this year thats NOT an OL/DL that you'd be OK with?"

We really need to draft OL/DL but....

Aaron Curry (if were so lucky)

http://www.walterfootball.com/pro2009acurry.php

LB Rey Maualuga

http://www.walterfootball.com/pro2009rmaualuga.php

LB James Laurinatis

http://www.nfldraftdog.com/2009_NFL_Draft/James%20Laurinaitis.htm

Trade down: Knowshon

http://www.walterfootball.com/pro2009kmoreno.php

But we really, really need to draft OL/DL

[Siven]

There is no position player worth foregoing OL or DL. Not even Micheal Crabtree. If they ignore the OL or DL, I think we're looking at a 6 wins or fewer next year.

I'd be ok drafting Crabtree if we could dump Moss or ARE. they are too inconsistent for my tastes and recoup maybe a 2 and third (for both of them)

then of course, i'd use those picks to address the lines.

depends really on what we do in FA

if we go out and get say ritchie incognito and albert haynesworth, then i'd want a center drafted with the third rounder, but i'd be fine going Qb or WR or whatever.

[Reaganaut]

This post is mainly inspired by Reaganaut's post on the Redskins possibly drafting a QB in the draft. I kinda felt like his thread was hijacked into a debate of whether or not a QB should be picked, which I don't think was his argument.

I'm definately in favor of drafting one of those positions, and so I will not even try to rationalize why they wouldn't. My first choice is for a DT who can collapse the pocket, but honestly I'd be satisfied with some other picks.

That being said, I've hoped and prayed for a DL pick for the last few years, and each year I had to put a smile on my face and root for the team I love. So I kinda want to hear what would people think if the Redskins drafted differently.

I remember in 2008, I wanted a DL and we got WRs. I wasn't too upset because I felt that those would be good contributors and did address a weakness on this team, and I thought we got at least two first round talents for second round prices.

In 2007, we got Landry. I wanted Okoye, but I wasn't too upset with Landry and was quickly thinking about the combo of Sean Taylor and Laron Landry and how that would help our secondary.

In 2006, I wanted DL and we got Rocky, Montgomery and Golston. I wasn't too upset because I thought Montgomery could be a steal if he played up to his potential. I still feel that way, but I feel that he's more likely to be a guy who makes a good play here and there, but won't consistently be doing much.

I can't go back any further because my memory isn't too well any more (I'm gettin old, I'm almost 30 :doh:).

But the main point of my question is Suppose that instead of addressing the lines we got:

- a top tier QB who falls to us (like in 2005 when Aaron Rogders fell)

- a RB with the talent of an Adrian Peterson

- a WR who can take over a game like Larry Fitzgerald (with college experience and good knees)

- a TE (like Chris Cooley)

- an OLB like Lavar Aarington (fresh out of college)

- an ILB like Ray Lewis

- a safety like Ed Reed

- a CB like Deion Sanders

If they spent a first rounder on a K or P, I'd just have to start watching soccer. We're not even going to address that option.

I guess what I'm asking is, "is there any position/player that the skins could draft this year thats NOT an OL/DL that you'd be OK with?"

Quick Edit: I've read almost NO articles on this year's upcoming draft class. So I don't know if there are any such players at any of these positions. This is just a "what if" game.

Thanks ThinkingSkins. I was making the exact point you reiterated and I deeply appreciate you helping me out with your post. I am a fatalist. The Skins repeat bad patterns, they don't learn from them. So, it's going to be a position we don't need... exactly...

Spurrier got his way because of his offensive prowess and we got... Shane Matthews. Gibbs got his way because of his reputation and we got... Mark Brunell and Jason Campbell. Zorn will get his way and we will get a new quarterback as sure as Lord Farquad and Prince Charming will raise beer prices again next year.

They will probably do something like package picks to get up to Sam Bradford or something. I am in agreement that we need real "difference makers" on the Skins at any position. Number 21 was the last difference maker we had and we need to get one on either side of the ball.

[Reaganaut]

What if a plane crashes into the combine and the only players left are those not invited???? Seriously, where are you going with all of this? Teams that want a certain type of player slot themselves accordingly. All 12 teams in front of us will not take linemen, especially if the guy that they are taking top 10 should go late first round - early 2nd. Unless your name is Vinnie and you are buddies with the owner, doing stuff like that could be hazzardous to your career.

I know we are used to certain things with Vinnie, but most teams are run by professionals.

We need top-notch linemen (not 5-7 round fodder). I expect Vinnie to figure out where we need to be in rounds 1-2 to get them.

We all know that the Skins need linemen. GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEAD, THEY WON"T DRAFT ONE WITH A TOP PICK. Sorry. So, that's why we are discussing other positions. We aren't arguing for a QB at all so quit trying to make that the issue. Everyone is so superstitious we can't even talk about this without people demanding a witch trial.

[TheLongshot]

Honestly, I don't think you can have too much talent at any one position. If you have an excess, you can always use it as trade bait.

That being said, the guy better be one hell of a talent to do something like that at a relatively deep position.

[LandryLaysWood]

Honestly, I'm going to say something that I disagreed with a little while back even in my post on "What should we draft if the Big 4 OTs are gone" but here it is. Looking at our team I do not think we are a Super Bowl contender next year unless we make some drastic moves so there are some players that I would accept if it weren't a lineman with pick 13. Here it goes...

In order for us to be real contenders next year I think we need to add an OT, OG, physical #1 WR, RB to compliment Portis that is a change of pace, a DE, DT, and OLB. Having said that I think that certain players if available at our pick I would be satisfied so long as a stud at one of our line needs isn't available that holds more value. Now these wouldn't be my first choices but I wouldn't be a complete hater of these picks:

Aaron Curry, OLB, Wake Forest (OLB is a position of need for us)

Michael Crabtree, WR, Texas Tech (Has the potential to be a dominant #1 at the NFL level. I don't think we should turn down a talent like this at 13 b/c we possibly missed on 2 WRs last year. You do what you can to improve your team).

Rey Maualuga, ILB, USC (I know we have London Flecher but Maualuga is my favorite player in this entire draft, Fletcher isn't getting any younger, and although it would be pretty wasted of a pick since we have Fletcher I love Maualuga.)

James Laurinaitis, ILB, Ohio State (Again, another ILB but I think he would have gone w/in the top 8 last year had he come out and he has done nothing all year to show me that he isn't a star player.)

Brian Cushing, OLB, USC

Knowshon Moreno, RB, Georgia (I think this guy is an absolute stud!)