helptheSKINS Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 We saw different games.Eight wins were the result. That's not bad for the first year in an offense without the help of the big receivers the WCO needs to be efficient. By controlling the ball and playing the field position game well, the offense helped the defense keep the score down. In 2009, we need to get into the end zone more often. This defines the problem with JC and the people who are continuing to think he should start next season no questions asked. Eight wins is average. JC is AT BEST average. This is coming from a Skins fan, not a JC hater. All the JC excuses won't lead to anymore wins. A QB competition however might. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MumboSauce Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 you also forgot to mention in your stats that zorn doesn't attack downfield so campbells YPA will be fairly low compared to anyone else in a more normal passing attack. you can't take chances downfield when you're coach is calling short passing plays. every week the announcers and play by play people would remark how zorn never seriously challenged people with deep passing plays. there was a point last week were we had 4 WR's on the field and ALL of them ran short routes. I don't think campbell is a great QB by anymeans but I certainly do believe zorn handcuffed his playcalling a bit. if having colt play meant zorn uncuffing the offense I'd be all for it. All I really want to see though is campbell given free reign in a legit NFL offense. people are calling for his head when he's playing in a kiddy size west coast offense that rarely goes vertical. the only time zorn legitimately attacked deep was off of playaction. so you sort of knew the deep ball was coming on defense if you saw playaction. ^^ well said , very fair assessment of things imo. I'll add I have no issue with a competition for starter in training camp, may the best of what we have win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aghar Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 I would like someone to explain to me how in the world people still believe the coaching staff is holding Campbell back at all? I mean, last year, it was Gibbs and Saunders holding him back, obviously, because he clearly had all the tools to make the throws but they just weren't calling them. Now this year, we again clearly see how great of a deep throwing QB he is, yet Zorn holds him back. I wonder why that is? Two different coaches. Two different offensive philosophies and yet they decided to "handcuff" Campbell? Damn coaches don't know a thing around here...:doh: *totally sarcastic for those who can't see it* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsWizCubsDukes Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Different offensive philosophies achieve different statistical results obviously but they aren't good for comparison of success. The Redskins run a ball control offense that will never put up buckets of points because its not designed to.The Saints were the top offense in the league, but did it win them any more games? I believe they will be picking right after us in this upcoming draft. Have you looked at the Saints defense?!? If they had our defense they would be a SuperBowl contender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 all talk no substance exactly what I thought Maybe because your bet is childish. You were doing a fine job debating your case until you pulled out this 3rd grade, "nuh uh, you wann bet." crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#21Taylor4Ever Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Isn't there an ES rule that states, "If 2 or more Ring of Fame guys agree with you, you're right"...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#21Taylor4Ever Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 "Jason Campbell Excuse Making Fan Club"?:rotflmao: facts aren't excues however, the JC hater club, make up over half of the criticism, nor back up their "numbers" logically... usually leaving out important details, that changes the real meaning.... such as the lions scored more points nonsense above, when you look at the lions schedule they played some easy defenses the Skins didn't face, and against common opponents wasn't even close, but why let facts....err... excuses get in the way of a witch hunt :thumbsup: AMEN BUBBA!!!!!! I thought I was the only one who thought they made most of that crap up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AAARedskin Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Different offensive philosophies achieve different statistical results obviously but they aren't good for comparison of success. The Redskins run a ball control offense that will never put up buckets of points because its not designed to.The Saints were the top offense in the league, but did it win them any more games? I believe they will be picking right after us in this upcoming draft. If the Saints had the Skins defense, they would contend for the Super Bowl, and if Campbell could play anywhere near the level that Drew Brees plays at (like comparing Pop Warner football to the USC Trojans), the Redskins could contend for the Superbowl. Campbell's 3rd down conversion stat is a disgrace, and his win/loss record as a starter show me absolutely NOTHING. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#21Taylor4Ever Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 If the Saints had the Skins defense, they would contend for the Super Bowl, and if Campbell could play anywhere near the level that Drew Brees plays at (like comparing Pop Warner football to the USC Trojans), the Redskins could contend for the Superbowl. Campbell's 3rd down conversion stat is a disgrace, and his win/loss record as a starter show me absolutely NOTHING. Now go and check how many times Campbell's been destroyed on 3rd downs by rushers. For some odd reason, Joe Bugel thinks you can block 8 with 5+1 RB. :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AAARedskin Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 AMEN BUBBA!!!!!!I thought I was the only one who thought they made most of that crap up. Nobody is making anything "up." What's going on is this thread has exposed some very telling stats about how mediocre Jason Campbell is, and you don't like the stats (also known as facts). How about Campbell's WIN/LOSS record as a starter? Are those stats also made up? There are still some of us who are old enough to remember Redskin teams that WON CHAMPIONSHIPS with QBs that knew how to put more than 24 points on the scoreboard nearly every Sunday. Yeah, some of us can spot a good QB from a mediocre one. I got news for you......as long as the Campbell led offense sputters along averaging 16 points a game, these kinds of threads and the Start Colt Brennan threads will never go away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AAARedskin Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Now go and check how many times Campbell's been destroyed on 3rd downs by rushers. For some odd reason, Joe Bugel thinks you can block 8 with 5+1 RB. :doh: Newsflash: Not every QB needs 6 to 8 seconds to set up and deliver a pass for a 1st down. Ever hear people talk of a QB having a quick release? You Campbell excuse makers all want to blame the O-line, but Todd Collins had the same group of guys blocking, and magically spotted receivers more quickly, resulting in a BETTER THIRD DOWN ratio, a more efficient offense, and MORE points on the scoreboard.... What games were YOU watching? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IHOPSkins Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 ....Joe Bugel thinks you can block 8 with 5+1 RB. :doh:Maybe Bugel assumes that with 6 blockers and 8 rushers there are at least 2 people open???Thats assuming a QB that can READ A DEFENSE and HIT AN OPEN MAN I now remember a certain Monday Night Game vs Philly Gibbs diled up the playaction...perfectly timed for a TD JC had a wide open WR......and missed him Bugels reaction was seen on the sidelines I can hear him saying "We work all game to give this guy time.....and he BLOWS IT" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawaiianTime Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Maybe Bugel assumes that with 6 blockers and 8 rushers there are at least 2 people open???Thats assuming a QB that can READ A DEFENSE and HIT AN OPEN MAN I now remember a certain Monday Night Game vs Philly Gibbs diled up the playaction...perfectly timed for a TD JC had a wide open WR......and missed him Bugels reaction was seen on the sidelines I can hear him saying "We work all game to give this guy time.....and he BLOWS IT" Hey, isn't there only supposed to be 11 defenders on the field??? So that means that there are only 3 defenders covering 4 guys. Wow, does Jason really have it that bad????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#21Taylor4Ever Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Newsflash: Not every QB needs 6 to 8 seconds to set up and deliver a pass for a 1st down. Ever hear people talk of a QB having a quick release? You Campbell excuse makers all want to blame the O-line, but Todd Collins had the same group of guys blocking, and magically spotted receivers more quickly, resulting in a BETTER THIRD DOWN ratio, a more efficient offense, and MORE points on the scoreboard....What games were YOU watching? Did you really just compare Collins with Campbell?? :doh: If you jump now, you can catch your credibility before it hits the ground. Collins studied that offense for 9 years, Campbell was in it for 20 games. Of course Collins hit receivers before they got there, he knew they'd be there 9 years ago. And I guess you missed Collins in the playoff game versus Seattle. What games were you watching, is the better question???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#21Taylor4Ever Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Maybe Bugel assumes that with 6 blockers and 8 rushers there are at least 2 people open???Thats assuming a QB that can READ A DEFENSE and HIT AN OPEN MAN I now remember a certain Monday Night Game vs Philly Gibbs diled up the playaction...perfectly timed for a TD JC had a wide open WR......and missed him Bugels reaction was seen on the sidelines I can hear him saying "We work all game to give this guy time.....and he BLOWS IT" Obviously I'm talking to someone who's never played organized football. Maybe you missed it, but receivers this year weren't even turning around to see if Campbell was in trouble. In case you didn't catch on, that's why so many passes hit the ground on 3rd and long. Campbell tried to hit his release valves, but those guys simply couldn't release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#21Taylor4Ever Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Nobody is making anything "up." What's going on is this thread has exposed some very telling stats about how mediocre Jason Campbell is, and you don't like the stats (also known as facts). How about Campbell's WIN/LOSS record as a starter? Are those stats also made up? There are still some of us who are old enough to remember Redskin teams that WON CHAMPIONSHIPS with QBs that knew how to put more than 24 points on the scoreboard nearly every Sunday. Yeah, some of us can spot a good QB from a mediocre one. I got news for you......as long as the Campbell led offense sputters along averaging 16 points a game, these kinds of threads and the Start Colt Brennan threads will never go away. You guys are definitely making up your posts. I mean anytime you can completely ignore the O-Line, due to sheer hatred for Campbell, it's obvious that you're biased and incapable of seeing anything but your own fictional thoughts. And Campbell led offenses put up 19 ppg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IHOPSkins Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Obviously I'm talking to someone who's never played organized football. .:stfu::stfu::stfu::stfu::stfu::stfu::stfu::stfu:Edit You're asking these guys to be reasonable, and that just isn't possible from the Campbell Haters.! Campbell Haters do nothing but make excuses. Do you even watch Redskin games?? It seems easier to blame Campbell, but none of the Campbell Haters even see the O-Line as a remote possibility for the issues. That's ignorant no matter how you slice it and dice it. Grow up man, and stop playing this holier than thou game with me. Did you really just compare Collins with Campbell?? If you jump now, you can catch your credibility before it hits the ground. .....And I guess you missed Collins in the playoff game versus Seattle. What games were you watching, is the better question???? You guys are definitely making up your posts. I mean anytime you can completely ignore the O-Line, due to sheer hatred for Campbell, it's obvious that you're biased and incapable of seeing anything but your own fictional thoughts.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#21Taylor4Ever Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 :stfu::stfu::stfu::stfu::stfu::stfu::stfu::stfu: And the Campbell Haters wonder why no one's buying their crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocketCitySkins Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Newsflash: Not every QB needs 6 to 8 seconds to set up and deliver a pass for a 1st down.What games were YOU watching? What games were you? In the Steelers, 2nd Dallas, both Giants and Baltimore games JC needed 3-4 seconds and barely got 2. There were times he didn't even get through a three step drop before his own o-line was pushed back into him. :mad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins_Throwback Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 And Campbell led offenses put up 19 ppg. Tell me you're not proud of that? 19ppg is pathetic and so is your lust for Campbell. I just don't get you & your band of "Jason Campbell excuse makers club" loyalty to a guy who has... 1. a losing record as a starter 2. can't drive the team to score points 3. has the leadership skills of Bambi I don't ever remember a worse offensive Skins team, EVER. JC holds the top position on this offense, enough said. No need for more excuses or stat figures, I want the Skins to win with production & results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brandymac27 Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 And the Campbell Haters wonder why no one's buying their crap. First, nobody hates JC. Most of us just want the best QB under center, regardless of who that is (JC, CB, TC, hell, it could be ARE). At this point, I don't care who it is, I just want to see for myself that there isn't someone else better out there (and judging on JC this past season I'm fairly certain there is). That's why I'm all for an open QB competition. Why are you so opposed to that? Are you scared JC will lose out to someone like, say, a rookie QB who has never played a regular season NFL game? Hell, if he loses, then he should have never been the starter to begin with, and if he wins it will shut all of us "haters" up. :2cents: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IHOPSkins Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 .....Most of us just want the best QB under center, regardless of who that is (JC, CB, TC, hell, it could be ARE)....Yup2 Years ago it wasn't JC Last year it wasn't JC! This year was it JC? Next Year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#21Taylor4Ever Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 First, nobody hates JC. Most of us just want the best QB under center, regardless of who that is (JC, CB, TC, hell, it could be ARE). At this point, I don't care who it is, I just want to see for myself that there isn't someone else better out there (and judging on JC this past season I'm fairly certain there is). That's why I'm all for an open QB competition. Why are you so opposed to that? Are you scared JC will lose out to someone like, say, a rookie QB who has never played a regular season NFL game? Hell, if he loses, then he should have never been the starter to begin with, and if he wins it will shut all of us "haters" up. :2cents: Jesus Christ could be under center. With an O-Line like we had this season, even he'd be imperfect. We should all start arguing about draft picks or possible free agent signings, because no matter what, Jason Campbell is QB #1 in 2009. We need to think about things that will change, like maybe drafting Duke Robinson or Oher and signing Jordan Gross. I guarantee you this much, we improve the line, and there won't be any more Campbell non-hating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#21Taylor4Ever Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Tell me you're not proud of that? 19ppg is pathetic and so is your lust for Campbell. I just don't get you & your band of "Jason Campbell excuse makers club" loyalty to a guy who has...1. a losing record as a starter 2. can't drive the team to score points 3. has the leadership skills of Bambi I don't ever remember a worse offensive Skins team, EVER. JC holds the top position on this offense, enough said. No need for more excuses or stat figures, I want the Skins to win with production & results. 1. Once we improve the line play, that record will soon become a winning one. 2. Yet another Campbell Hater fabrication. 3. And another one. Just because he doesn't act an ass like Rivers, doesn't mean he lacks leadership skills. Maybe you don't listen to the players, but everyone says Campbell's a good leader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnb123 Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 1. Once we improve the line play, that record will soon become a winning one.2. Yet another Campbell Hater fabrication. 3. And another one. Just because he doesn't act an ass like Rivers, doesn't mean he lacks leadership skills. Maybe you don't listen to the players, but everyone says Campbell's a good leader. Want something that's not a fabrication? Campbell has NEVER put up over 30 points offensively as a redskin. If thats not a telling stat, then I don't know what it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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