Some players don't believe the postseason is worth it

[Bang]

T.O. is a destructive narcissist. If the Cowboys succeed and T.O. hasn't made a major contribution, the Cowboys have not really succeeded because T.O. is their best player--that's what he genuinely believes.

You genuinely expect anyone to believe you genuinely know what is in the mind of a guy you only see on your TV?

Not a bad trick.

~Bang

[DieHard86]

You genuinely expect anyone to believe you genuinely know what is in the mind of a guy you only see on your TV?

Not a bad trick.

~Bang

What is your agenda here? Why do you willfully ignore the volumes of evidence: what Owens did in SF, what Owens did in Philly, what Owens does in Dallas?

[Chief skin]

The Dark Side of the Game by Tim Green

In reference to McD5's post.

FANTASTIC BOOK have it at home

[Dark Acre]

Didn't Russ Grimm remark in the NFL episode on the '82 Skins SB team that he was making more in the SB than he made the entire season? I know he also said he couldn't understand why they were going on strike at all -- he was making $30,000 playing a game he loved. Teams full of Grimms win championships. Man, what a line we had in the 80's, esp. through '85 (I divide the 80's in 2 based on when I gradumacated - Annandale H.S. '85 - b/c Skins weren't on tv much in college). That's how you build a team Vinny, ya dope, find the hungry hippos and let 'em loose.

[DieHard86]

[quote name=

PS< I would also like to point out that the article tries to make us believe that the Redskins were in the "thick of the playoff hunt" when this happened.

Uh' date=' yeah, remember reality? we went 8-8 that season and never once had a record over .500. During this "playoff hunt" the best we mustered until the final week of the season was 5-6. Considering there were three second place teams in the NFC with 12 wins, it's pretty obvious to anyone with half a memory that there was no playoff chase in Washington in 01.

But hey,, a writer making up details to flesh out and pump up their stories, that never happens. Except right there in the first two paragraphs of this story.~Bang[/quote]

Another thing, genius. In 2001, 3 division winners and 3 wildcard teams made the playoffs. In the NFC, the lowest ranked wildcard winner was 9-7 Tampa. Therefore, the Redskins were in fact in the hunt up until they lost to the Bears. Anything else?

[Bang]

What is your agenda here? Why do you willfully ignore the volumes of evidence: what Owens did in SF, what Owens did in Philly, what Owens does in Dallas?

The "evidence" you refer to flies in the face of the "evidence" of practically every player he's ever played with. I know we should never believe the guys he's actually around all day and every day, but sometimes i have a hard time seeing how on one hand everyone in the media calls him a cancer, but on the other hand, almost none of his teammates ever say anything bad about him.

My agenda here is simple,, don't believe everything you read or hear, ESPECIALLY when it comes to him.

We here in Washington should KNOW better. How many articles have we read that has unfairly characterized Dan Snyder as a bumbling idiot who knows nothing except how to write oversized checks for ancient hack free agents?

we never hear of any of the Redskins successes, do we? All we hear is how inept our FO is, even though we've made the playoffs in 2 of the last 3 years, something only a few teams have done.

It's an EASY SELL. Snyder= idiot with money.. and people believe it because they WANT TO believe he's an idiot with money. I've actually read articles about foolish free agency spending with a picture of Dan to lead off the article, and no mention of him in it at all. But his picture means "idiot with money", and sells the article before it's read. It also reinforces the notion that Snyder is a spoiled silver spoon rich kid (he's not) who is only concerned about bleeding fans dry. (He's not)

Yet while we see that occur all the time to a guy from our own team, we absolutely refuse to believe that it might be happening in the case of TO.

It's an EASY SELL. People are predisposed to believe the story.. like you for example, who GENUINELY know what is in the mind of a man I assume you've never met once in your life. What you know of him is at the mercy of writers and editors who pick and choose which of the words they want you to hear to further THEIR story.

In SF, nope, i have no defense of his actions, In Philly, I do.

He was ripped off in Philly by a team that is notorious for undercutting the pay of their players, especially after they reach 30 years old. TO realized that the contract he signed left him vulnerable to an age old Joe Banner trick,, leave a bonus out there for a large chunk of the complete contract (TOs bonus that he was to collect after the 07 season) that will NEVER be paid because they will cut him right before it's due. TO hired Drew Rosenhaus, who tried to get the Eagles to fix it and not leave him vulnerable.

The Eagles refused, and depending on who you believe, hung him out to dry. Remember, more than HALF the Eagles team sided with him and still does.

In Dallas they've been SALIVATING waiting for him to mess up the team. So far he hasnt done it. Not even close, But because for six months every single reporter in the NFL world claimed that he'd blow up their locker room, they all will report even the smallest rumor as fact to try to back up their "prediction".

As always, my agenda is simple. I demand truth. Truth in reporting would be nice, but that's not likely, so I hope for truth among the fans who they are supposedly speaking to.

You for example, claim to know what is GENUINELY in TOs mind, and you flat out don't. That isn't being honest.

And neither are they when they paint one player a villain and another player a hero.

Earlier in the thread we had a guy who got bent out of shape over a comparison to ray Lewis.

Now, in reality TO is a football player who opens his mouth and speaks his mind, right or wrong. But off the field you've never heard of him even getting a parking ticket. In reality Ray Lewis is a football player who knows who murdered two men, and has never said.

Now, which one of these is REALLY a decent person, and which one isn't?

Don't ask the media t help, because all they do is paint whatever picture they want you to see.

Recognize that. That's my agenda.

~Bang

[HogNose]

While you might enjoy this fantasy about TO, it goes against practically everything every teammate he has ever had says about him.

Do you actually think TO's teammates are going to tell a local reporter or ESPN that TO is a team cancer? Of course they are going to say something positive publicly. I wouldn't expect them to call him out publicly.

Bottomline the guy is a team cancer and an attention whore.

[Zen-like Todd]

I'm going to say Dan Wilkinson. My evidence?

1) He was lazy.

2) My parents wound up standing behind him on line at a bookstore towards the end of Marty's first and only year in Washington. They struck up a conversation, and noted that he had a book about Florida architecture.

I rest my case.

[Bang]

Another thing, genius. In 2001, 3 division winners and 3 wildcard teams made the playoffs. In the NFC, the lowest ranked wildcard winner was 9-7 Tampa. Therefore, the Redskins were in fact in the hunt up until they lost to the Bears. Anything else?

Right.

I remember that year.. not like it was that long ago. Playoff hunt my foot.

I guess you think we were in the "playoff hunt' this past weekend, too.

Mathematially yes,, but in reality, not even a snowball's chance in hell.

This article leading off by telling us there was a playoff chase going on here is misleading. That team was fighting simply for self respect, and nothing else.

By the by, you should try to not get so personally upset if someone questions how you know what is GENUINELY in the mind of a person you never met.

~Bang

[Bang]

Do you actually think TO's teammates are going to tell a local reporter or ESPN that TO is a team cancer? Of course they are going to say something positive publicly. I wouldn't expect them to call him out publicly.

Bottomline the guy is a team cancer and an attention whore.

So, he's a cancer, tearing apart locker rooms, everyone knows it, but no one will say it. Hes' ruining other players chances of success, tearing their team apart, yet no one will say so in an era where there's a microphone and camera on every corner, in their face all day and all night.

Yeah, that doesn't even make a lick of sense.

~Bang

[Bang]

for the record, my rant isn't about defending TO,, it's about recognizing what the writers do, and recognizing that they often aren't very honest about what they 'report'.

Like our own Jason LaCanfora for example,, everything has an agenda.

We see it here, but we don't want to believe we see it elsewhere, especially around 'lightning rod' players. Some can do no right, others can do no wrong.

~Bang

[DieHard86]

Right.

I remember that year.. not like it was that long ago. Playoff hunt my foot.

I guess you think we were in the "playoff hunt' this past weekend, too.

Mathematially yes,, but in reality, not even a snowball's chance in hell.

This article leading off by telling us there was a playoff chase going on here is misleading. That team was fighting simply for self respect, and nothing else.

By the by, you should try to not get so personally upset if someone questions how you know what is GENUINELY in the mind of a person you never met.

~Bang

I'm not upset, just pointing out again how incorrect you are. When the Skins got to 5-5 Thanksgiving weekend they were in the hunt again. They were one game out after week 13. That's called being in the hunt.

[Bang]

I'm not upset, just pointing out again how incorrect you are. When the Skins got to 5-5 Thanksgiving weekend they were in the hunt again. They were one game out after week 13. That's called being in the hunt.

Well, if you want to tell yourself that being mathematically alive translates into "in the thick of the wild-card race coming down the stretch " that's on you.

In my mind it is intellectually dishonest and opens the article having the reader believe there were actual real chances to make it that year, rather than the truth of it which was our being an outside mathematical possibility. He makes igt sound as if the team really had a shot, and the players had just given up. The team had no shot. And the players were acting according to the reality of the situation.

~Bang

[DieHard86]

Well, if you want to tell yourself that being mathematically alive translates into "in the thick of the wild-card race coming down the stretch " that's on you.

In my mind it is intellectually dishonest and opens the article having the reader believe there were actual real chances to make it that year, rather than the truth of it which was our being an outside mathematical possibility. He makes igt sound as if the team really had a shot, and the players had just given up. The team had no shot. And the players were acting according to the reality of the situation.

~Bang

So in your world, in 2005, when the Redskins were 7-6 and hosting the Dallas Cowboys, and the Redskins were a game behind Dallas and Atlanta at that point, to say that the Redskins were in the thick of the wild card race would be "intellectually dishonest"? One game out of the playoffs is a mere statistical possibility?

[trimee]

So in your world, in 2005, when the Redskins were 7-6 and hosting the Dallas Cowboys, and the Redskins were a game behind Dallas and Atlanta at that point, to say that the Redskins were in the thick of the wild card race would be "intellectually dishonest"? One game out of the playoffs is a mere statistical possibility?

Dude, you sound like a woman. Just arguing to argue, even though you have no real point. You know what point Bang is making, but you keep on going and for what? To get your post count up? :stfu:

[DieHard86]

Dude, you sound like a woman. Just arguing to argue, even though you have no real point. You know what point Bang is making, but you keep on going and for what? To get your post count up? :stfu:

ok, "trim"ee.

So you agree that if a team is one game out of the wildcard, they are merely mathematically alive and don't have a shot at the playoffs? How many of you started drinking early today? Morons abound.

[Bang]

So in your world, in 2005, when the Redskins were 7-6 and hosting the Dallas Cowboys, and the Redskins were a game behind Dallas and Atlanta at that point, to say that the Redskins were in the thick of the wild card race would be "intellectually dishonest"? One game out of the playoffs is a mere statistical possibility?

Uh yeah.

Look, get a ladder, reaching like this is going to cause an injury. And calling me a moron in your above post is a bit much.

It makes me wonder if you actually saw the near playoff caliber Tony Banks led 01 team, and if you REALLY honestly believed that December that they were actually going to make the playoffs. I don't think anyone beyond the most blind of homers could have seen a playoff team there, or a team that was anything BUT mathematically alive. You can stick to the semantics of how the bucs were only 9-7, but the way the season played out and the way the Redskins played in it, there was not going to be a chance.

Say, did you know that the god-awful Detroit Lions were still actually mathematically alive for the playoffs until mid-November? They're going to go 0-16, but til mid November they had a mathematical shot to make it.

Now, in ten years if you read an article by a scrub ex player that says that they 'were in the thick of the playoff hunt" will you nod in agreement, or will you laugh at the stretch in logic the the writer has made (much like I did when this article tried to convince me the Redskins were anything but mathematically alive in 01)?

For future reference when you want to make references to how I see things 'in my world' it's probably a better idea to simply ask. I'll tell you. It will save you all this speculation.

In my "world" I recognize things for what they ARE, and this article begins with a misleading historical reference. (Much like I would be if i began an article in 2014 saying "Back in November of 2008, with the Lions in the thick of the playoff hunt..." but hey,, technically that would be true, huh?)

In my world, I recognize things for what they ARE, like that TO is not really a locker room cancer, and that Ray Lewis really does know who murdered two men and has obstructed justice for nearly 10 years now. I recognize that the media who reports on this sport can paint these people into any image they want them to be.. and Ray Ray / TO is a prime example. One of them has never been in trouble at all, and the other participated in a murder. One is held up as a leader, the other is a cancer. That makes sense, huh?

We blame TO in SF, but I do seem to recall Jeff Garcia has been on four other teams since those days, and no one wants to keep him around. Detroit dumped him in favor of Jon Kitna. In Cleveland they couldnt wait to run him off.. in Philly he won eight in a row and put a team left for dead into the playoffs, and they wouldn't even make him an OFFER when it was over to stay. In Tampa, he puts THEM in the playoffs, and Gruden looks for every reason he can find to bench him, and actually HAS benched him twice this year.

But hey, it's all TO, right? We see, as you called it "mounds of evidence" against him, but we choose to ignore the fact that Garcia gets tossed out of every town he plays in, and we never ask why. Maybe he's got a problem? It sure would seem like it, no? All he does is win and get fired.

No no no no.. the media says TO is bad,, he throws guys under the bus, blah blah blah. Nevermind half the team in Philly stuck up for him. Nevermind that his other QB can't hold a job regardless of his successes. It's all him..

(For the record, i never agreed with TO's antics in SF. He went over the line by yelling at coaches on the sideline during the game. But since then I haven't had any problem with anything he's said or done.)

I recognize that the media surrounding this sport can be as bad as ANY tabloid, and since I recognize that, I take almost everything they say with a grain of salt. I've seen them do it to our team, and I've seen them do it to other teams. That I recognize it when they do it to the Cowboys might not sit well with some Redskins fans, but in my world i also realize I'm nothing but a spectator, and my desire to see the Cowboys fail doesn't necessarily make me blind.

Reality. In my world, its what's for dinner.

~Bang

[bubba9497]

You genuinely expect anyone to believe you genuinely know what is in the mind of a guy you only see on your TV?

Not a bad trick.

~Bang

It's amazing how many around here can perform that trick

[G-Prime]

Yeah, it blows. It kills the sport.

They need to restructure contracts to reward players for performance, including team performance.....and to up the financial consideration for making the playoffs.

18k for a guy in the playoffs? Many of these guys make multi-millions a year. Who in the hell wants 18k? I believe it is up to 30-40k now if you win the big one--even that is a joke financially.

That would be like finding a nickel in your couch.

I agree however if only there was a way to tangible measure desire.. That is what I'd reward more than anything. Desire breeds performance.

[cphil006]

These players better leave the team after this season... or else...

[Springfield]

The quote in my sig exemplifies exactly how I feel about this. It exemplifies how Sean Taylor felt about this. It exemplifies one of the many things we lost when we lost Sean Taylor.

That was the thing I admired most about Sean Taylor, his willingness to sacrifice is body. He was a football player in the purest sense of the term. I wish every player on our team had his mentality.

[Bang]

These players better leave the team after this season... or else...

The guy is writing about an incident from 2001. Whoever it was is most likely long gone.

~Bang

[TSO]

Bang... I agree with almost everything you say about the media and their slandering ways, but you have to at least admit that TO gives them what they want. It's not like they just sit there and pick a player out of a random pool to go after. They can't tear down, say, a Jason Campbell really. There just isn't any material for them. Now, don't get me wrong. Like I said, you're right... but I feel like you're giving TO way too much credit. The guy is miserable when his team is winning but he didn't put up big numbers... I saw it during the Packers game they had earlier this season. Dallas won but it was so obvious he couldn't stand what was going on... it was all about him. No commentator said that or hinted at it either, it was painfully obvious from the look on his face. TO is all smiles when he's scoring TDs and you can't say that's not true. Why is it when he's not doing well even when his team is, he's not smiling at all? What's wrong with him? That one shot they always show of him from the 07 season where he's saying "man, I love being a decoy sometimes" says a lot to me. It shows how much its bothering him and it shows that he feels the needs to tell everyone around him how he's the real reason they had success. Noone needs to say anything to me, nor am I influenced by their negativity (other than the fact that he's in a Cowboys uniform)... he just rubs me the wrong way. The excessive celebrating when he scores even when he knows it can cause a penalty is enough for me. I don't need anyone to tell me he's a good teammate or a bad one. Period.

I'm 100% sure the media blows everything he does out of proportion, but you can't act like there isn't the slightest hint of truth there. There's plenty more than a slight hint Bang. You have it right though, and I wish more people could see the power of the media and their tactics as clearly as you. We would live in a much better world.

[Bang]

Bang... I agree with almost everything you say about the media and their slandering ways, but you have to at least admit that TO gives them what they want. It's not like they just sit there and pick a player out of a random pool to go after. They can't tear down, say, a Jason Campbell really. There just isn't any material for them. Now, don't get me wrong. Like I said, you're right... but I feel like you're giving TO way too much credit. The guy is miserable when his team is winning but he didn't put up big numbers... I saw it during the Packers game they had earlier this season. Dallas won but it was so obvious he couldn't stand what was going on... it was all about him.

I'm 100% sure the media blows everything he does out of proportion, but you can't act like there isn't the slightest hint of truth there. There's plenty more than a slight hint Bang. You have it right though, and I wish more people could see the power of the media and their tactics as clearly as you. We would live in a much better world.

You're right, he's a mouthy ****, no doubt. He's a walking sound byte, so yeah they'll definitely follow him around and hang on his every word.

What I am saying is that if you took the actual problems he's caused and held it up against the supposed problems he's caused, it's no contest.

If he says for example "I tried to catch it, but the ball was a little high"

One of them will say "Romo sits to pee threw the ball too high?"

and he'll say "It was a little high"

and tomorrow the whole world thinks he threw Romo sits to pee under the bus.

Lots of times people speculate on what he (and lots of others) mean with their words rather than simply listening to the words themselves and gleaning the meaning from that.

Sometimes you can find full press conference raw video or audio on the web. Some team sites have a remarkable amount of content you can view, and a lot of times when TO makes one of the comments that gets him in trouble, you listen to the entire thing, and the context changes. But take ten seconds out of any press conference and you can make it say just about whatever you want. Couple that with networks who live to speculate on this stuff, and an owner who courts bright-light controversy, and you've got a pretty solid recipe for fireworks, real or imagined.

~Bang

[TSO]

You're right, he's a mouthy ****, no doubt. He's a walking sound byte, so yeah they'll definitely follow him around and hang on his every word.

What I am saying is that if you took the actual problems he's caused and held it up against the supposed problems he's caused, it's no contest.

If he says for example "I tried to catch it, but the ball was a little high"

One of them will say "Romo sits to pee threw the ball too high?"

and he'll say "It was a little high"

and tomorrow the whole world thinks he threw Romo sits to pee under the bus.

Lots of times people speculate on what he (and lots of others) mean with their words rather than simply listening to the words themselves and gleaning the meaning from that.

Sometimes you can find full press conference raw video or audio on the web. Some team sites have a remarkable amount of content you can view, and a lot of times when TO makes one of the comments that gets him in trouble, you listen to the entire thing, and the context changes. But take ten seconds out of any press conference and you can make it say just about whatever you want. Couple that with networks who live to speculate on this stuff, and an owner who courts bright-light controversy, and you've got a pretty solid recipe for fireworks, real or imagined.

~Bang

Agreed... I've witnessed this very thing twice this year. TO didn't say much of anything and they took it and ran with it. Can't remember what it was both times but I definitely remember thinking to myself how sly and malignant the media truly is. Still, it isn't hard to see what kind of guy TO is by just paying attention yourself, even when listening to his sound bytes within context.

I don't think any player should come out and complain that he's not getting the ball... keep it within the organization. I didn't like it when Portis did the same thing, but TO does it on a much more consistent basis. I think people are too hard on him though... even if he isn't exactly the bast teammate, so what? That doesn't make him the worst human being in the world like the perception the media has given people of him.

You do also have to take into account the fact that there are a lot of outlets for TO to get his own view across... it's not like he just gets slandered and he can't do anything about it.

I think a lot of people here would have no argument with you if it was anyone else besides TO. Your point about Ray Lewis and Dan Snyder, for instance, is spot on and I have yet to see anyone even bring that up.