Confidence in Campbell

[Brotherz]

he's an anomaly. hey, you won't get any argument from me on Matt Ryan, I watched the guy in college single handled beat my team 3 years in a row. I knew he was a special player.

Why don't you tell me why "Matt Ryan" doesn't suck, since you seem to know. Do the ATL Falcons play the exact same schedule as us, do they have the exact same players, do they run the same offense, etc.

Oh yeah ... like I said ... apples and oranges.

The point is that we are constantly being bombarded with excuses. How many times have you heard "well its gonna take time cuz Zorn is new?" Well what about Harbaugh in Baltimore? What about Mike Smith in Atlanta?

How many times have you heard "Well cmon' what do you expect from Campbell, its a new system.". Its Matt Ryan's first year in the league. Its certainly a new system. Its a new coach. Its a new freakin league for that kid. And he is on a team that picked in the top five last year. These excuses for our franchise are just repeatedlly tolerated by our fan base. Its incredible. Eddie Royal and Deshaun Jackson are picking up their system just fine. So what the hell is up with our rookie wideouts? Its just excuses after excuses with this team.

[Voice_of_Reason]

The point is that we are constantly being bombarded with excuses. How many times have you heard "well its gonna take time cuz Zorn is new?" Well what about Harbaugh in Baltimore? What about Mike Smith in Atlanta?

How many times have you heard "Well cmon' what do you expect from Campbell, its a new system.". Its Matt Ryan's first year in the league. Its certainly a new system. Its a new coach. Its a new freakin league for that kid. And he is on a team that picked in the top five last year. These excuses for our franchise are just repeatedlly tolerated by our fan base. Its incredible. Eddie Royal and Deshaun Jackson are picking up their system just fine. So what the hell is up with our rookie wideouts? Its just excuses after excuses with this team.

If Matt Ryan was playing on the 'Skins he would have 25 INTs and the team would have <2 wins. My predictions, but that's what I think. He's a great first year QB. He might even be a better QB than JC. Was picked #5 overall, JC was not. We'll see.

My point is that one of the reasons, BIG REASONS, that the 'Skins have had no sustained success in the last 15 years is that they've been completely schizophrenic with QBs. Give 1 guy 3 years, and then see. This "What have you done for me lately" crap has to end. If you bench a guy after a 2 game losing streak, you're never going to have a consistant team.

This is getting ridiculous.

[Brotherz]

Do me a favor, if you're going to go off on some rambling rant like that, don't start it with a quote of mine. I said that Atlanta has a damn good O-Line. You reply with a rambling tirade that never actually disputes what I said, but talk about Taylor, Heyer, Jansen, and just about everything but what I made a comment on.

If you want to disagree, I'm all for it, no worries, be happy to discuss with you. But I refuse to get drawn into the rantings and ramblings like this.

Even Sith Lord, with whom I rarely agree, made a post disagreeing with me where he quoted a fact. He had a legitimate argument, and he and I can have a legitimate discussion on it. What you wrote is all over the map. Take some drugs, calm down, think clearly, then write. Dear God. I know it's bad, but FOR HEAVEN'S SAKE!

I went back and looked at the original quote of you and your absolutely right. I got caught up in the other arguments I was having in this same thread. Your absolutely right. I totally went off topic of your quote. I apologize.

[Brotherz]

If Matt Ryan was playing on the 'Skins he would have 25 INTs and the team would have <2 wins. My predictions, but that's what I think. He's a great first year QB. He might even be a better QB than JC. Was picked #5 overall, JC was not. We'll see.

My point is that one of the reasons, BIG REASONS, that the 'Skins have had no sustained success in the last 15 years is that they've been completely schizophrenic with QBs. Give 1 guy 3 years, and then see. This "What have you done for me lately" crap has to end. If you bench a guy after a 2 game losing streak, you're never going to have a consistant team.

This is getting ridiculous.

Oh, I am not saying bench him. Not at all. I am saying we gotta stop making excuses for everything this organization does wrong. I personally don't think Jason Campbell is anywhere near our biggest problem.

[Passizle]

I agree with some of what you said here... but I think you are seeing in black and white. Campbell has made somehitng out of nothing many time this year.

That deep pass to Moss against the Saints. He had pressure, avoided the sack, stepped up, and delivered the ball to a pretty well covered Moss. Moss just a stepon the guy, but the point is the ball was placed pretty perfectly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trZfHoEtFeE

Last game against Dallas... he saw the middle of the defense open, called the audible and ran it up the gut on 3rd and long and converted. That was a great play by Campbell. Cant find video...

Week 4 @Dallas. O-line breaks down. CAmpbell avoids the sacks... extends the play and finds a wide open Cooley for a huge completion. See the 1:32 point of the clip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjVyY8ARwus

Back to week 2 against the Saints... Pocket collapses in the front, and Campbell stands and delivers before the hit for a big gain again. See 0:30 clip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jr6rJ78Q4NA&feature=related

Last week again with the pass to Sellers on 3rd and 14. Campbell makes the play happen regardless of the Olin failure.

I coud find more with more time... point is. Everything does NOT have to be perfect. The line does not have to hold a erfect pocket either... but when your pocket is collapsing on ALL side, ALL game... it does not givemuch room to manuever or adjust. How many bullets do you think one man can dodge?

Just sayin...

[Redskins4ever]

Jason has to do a better job of making quicker decisions on getting the ball away or scrambling when there's no one open. Some of it is the offensive line, but not always. Jason has been known to hold on to the ball a little longer than he should back there. My confidence in Campbell is growing. I wanted Colt Brennan to be our QB after the first Giants game, but since I've changed my opinion because of Jason Campbell's probowl style of play.

[Voice_of_Reason]

I went back and looked at the original quote of you and your absolutely right. I got caught up in the other arguments I was having in this same thread. Your absolutely right. I totally went off topic of your quote. I apologize.

Accepted, and s'all good.

[pocampo]

Hey Brother you seem like a real cool guy. Thanks for your thoughtful insight. How long would your boss have given you if you did it over and over again ?? But your point was not lost on me. Same thing happened to me. Also. It seems to me that coach is over coaching JC way to much. JC has talent. I wish he would just let JC go for it!! I have a feeling that JZ might be the problem not just the line!

[Voice_of_Reason]

Oh, I am not saying bench him. Not at all. I am saying we gotta stop making excuses for everything this organization does wrong. I personally don't think Jason Campbell is anywhere near our biggest problem.

And THAT I completely agree with. This is a Campbell thread, but the biggest problems are O-Line, D-Line and WR. Everything else can fall into place.

And JC needs to improve. Which, I think, he will.

[Voice_of_Reason]

I agree with some of what you said here... but I think you are seeing in black and white. Campbell has made somehitng out of nothing many time this year.

That deep pass to Moss against the Saints. He had pressure, avoided the sack, stepped up, and delivered the ball to a pretty well covered Moss. Moss just a stepon the guy, but the point is the ball was placed pretty perfectly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trZfHoEtFeE

Last game against Dallas... he saw the middle of the defense open, called the audible and ran it up the gut on 3rd and long and converted. That was a great play by Campbell. Cant find video...

Week 4 @Dallas. O-line breaks down. CAmpbell avoids the sacks... extends the play and finds a wide open Cooley for a huge completion. See the 1:32 point of the clip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjVyY8ARwus

Back to week 2 against the Saints... Pocket collapses in the front, and Campbell stands and delivers before the hit for a big gain again. See 0:30 clip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jr6rJ78Q4NA&feature=related

Last week again with the pass to Sellers on 3rd and 14. Campbell makes the play happen regardless of the Olin failure.

I coud find more with more time... point is. Everything does NOT have to be perfect. The line does not have to hold a erfect pocket either... but when your pocket is collapsing on ALL side, ALL game... it does not givemuch room to manuever or adjust. How many bullets do you think one man can dodge?

Just sayin...

Can you clarify who you were replying to? Good points, but don't know who you were disagreeing with.

[pocampo]

I agree with some of what you said here... but I think you are seeing in black and white. Campbell has made somehitng out of nothing many time this year.

That deep pass to Moss against the Saints. He had pressure, avoided the sack, stepped up, and delivered the ball to a pretty well covered Moss. Moss just a stepon the guy, but the point is the ball was placed pretty perfectly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trZfHoEtFeE

Last game against Dallas... he saw the middle of the defense open, called the audible and ran it up the gut on 3rd and long and converted. That was a great play by Campbell. Cant find video...

Week 4 @Dallas. O-line breaks down. CAmpbell avoids the sacks... extends the play and finds a wide open Cooley for a huge completion. See the 1:32 point of the clip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjVyY8ARwus

Back to week 2 against the Saints... Pocket collapses in the front, and Campbell stands and delivers before the hit for a big gain again. See 0:30 clip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jr6rJ78Q4NA&feature=related

Last week again with the pass to Sellers on 3rd and 14. Campbell makes the play happen regardless of the Olin failure.

I coud find more with more time... point is. Everything does NOT have to be perfect. The line does not have to hold a erfect pocket either... but when your pocket is collapsing on ALL side, ALL game... it does not givemuch room to manuever or adjust. How many bullets do you think one man can dodge?

Just sayin...

Agree that's why I said sometimes. He needs to do this more of often.

[Voice_of_Reason]

Hey Brother you seem like a real cool guy. Thanks for your thoughtful insight. How long would your boss have given you if you did it over and over again ?? But your point was not lost on me. Same thing happened to me. Also. It seems to me that coach is over coaching JC way to much. JC has talent. I wish he would just let JC go for it!! I have a feeling that JZ might be the problem not just the line!

Well, now that's a good point. Let me answer 2 different points:

1. How many times do you have to screw up before it becomes a trend. I think that the key here is that you want to see improvement mixed in with the screw ups. If it's ONLY screw ups, then you probably need to find a new career path. But both with me and with JC, I think that you can definitely see some progress even though he makes some mistakes some times.

2. On Zorn, my opinion, and it's just that, is that he might be one of the best QB coaches in the league, and what he did with Matt H. in Seattle was terrific. I think that you just have to trust that he knows what he's doing because of his track record. It hasn't been long enough to draw any conclusions on him. He HAD to fix JC's fundamentals. Which he did. Now, he's doing something that he's never done before. He's never been an O-coordinator or a play caller, so HE'S going to have some learning also.

[Loyal2Washington]

Some people have to realize that he is not Brady or Manning. JC is not going to make the players better. He needs a cast of good players to be a successful QB and without said good players he will play to the level of his teammates talent. It is only a franchise QB that can lead a team to W's with below avg. talent and JC is not that type of QB.

JC has good skill but without a legit number 1 WR, that's why we tried to trade for Chad and/or Boldin, our offense will remain stagnant. Give JC a good O-Line and he will pick any D a part we have seen that, so it's pretty obvious that the O-Line needs to be looked at in the off season.

JC can not win games for us and until Zorn starts running the ball 30+ times a game, see @Dallass and @Philthy games, we will continue to look like the poor pass offense we really are.

Hopefully in the off season the team makes some adjustments that benefit Campbell. Remember not every QB is Tom Brady or Peyton Manning but you can win Super Bowls with a Trent Dilfer or Mark Rypien.

[Passizle]

Can you clarify who you were replying to? Good points, but don't know who you were disagreeing with.

Stupid quote button works sporadically for me. It was in response to pocampo...

http://www.extremeskins.com/showpost.php?p=5835817&postcount=73

[Voice_of_Reason]

Some people have to realize that he is not Brady or Manning. JC is not going to make the players better. He needs a cast of good players to be a successful QB and without said good players he will play to the level of his teammates talent. It is only a franchise QB that can lead a team to W's with below avg. talent and JC is not that type of QB.

JC has good skill but without a legit number 1 WR, that's why we tried to trade for Chad and/or Boldin, our offense will remain stagnant. Give JC a good O-Line and he will pick any D a part we have seen that, so it's pretty obvious that the O-Line needs to be looked at in the off season.

JC can not win games for us and until Zorn starts running the ball 30+ times a game, see @Dallass and @Philthy games, we will continue to look like the poor pass offense we really are.

Hopefully in the off season the team makes some adjustments that benefit Campbell. Remember not every QB is Tom Brady or Peyton Manning but you can win Super Bowls with a Trent Dilfer or Mark Rypien.

Fair points, but I would counter with there was a time that Peyton wasn't Peyton. It didn't last very long, but he wasn't terrific in his first season. What's saying that JC can't be Peyton-like next year? Also, Peyton has ALWAYS had (well, until now) amazing talent around him. I believe he had Marshall Faulk, Marvin Harrison, then Edgerin James, and Wayne, a very good O-Line, etc. Also, he's played for exactly 1 Offensive Coordinator with 1 system. The Colts are the personification of consistency, which is what the 'Skins are not.

Brady is just Brady. He was awesome year 1 (which was his second year in the league), has not had the talent at the WR position that Manning has had until last year, but he might simply be the best QB to every play the game when all is said and done. So it's tough to even draw a comparison with that.

[TSO]

JC is gonna be fine guys. it's funny to me that the people that talk trash about JC are the same people that when he has a good game, sit there and say hes the best QB there is blah blah. Kinda funny to me.

I doubt they do. They're the ones who stay quiet about it, and some of them are actually angry inside when he does well because it affects their ego. They have to be right.

On our 4 game winning streak, Jason Campbell was playing as good as any QB in the league. After that, he's had good games and then two below average games in a row. The pass blocking (not just the Oline guys, RBs and TEs are at fault here too) has been subpar and he's missed a few things. That's all there is to it. Noone can say "he sucks" right now or that he's the problem. If anything, the last two games show us how important a healthy CP is to this offense... he's a great pass blocker and we're suffering without him in there everytime. Even when he's in there he's not the same pass blocker I'm accustomed to seeing.

[Loyal2Washington]

Fair points, but I would counter with there was a time that Peyton wasn't Peyton. It didn't last very long, but he wasn't terrific in his first season.

Brady is just Brady. He was awesome year 1 (which was his second year in the league), So it's tough to even draw a comparison with that.

If you want to think that Campbell is going to wake up and be Peyton Manning next year then.. Well that's your opinion. In other words you agree that truly great QB's are very difficult to come by and truly great QB's don't need 30 something games to show it. I'm not against JC but at some point both sides have to realize what really JC really is.

[corrupt3d]

Fool me once, shame on you.

Fool me twice shame on me.

If you have not shown that you have "IT" by now, why oh why should we believe you ever will have "IT"?

STOP MAKING EXCUSES FOR JC.

:2cents:

WTF is "IT"? A book by Stephen King?

Joe Montana was said to not have "it", he was a quiet hard worker. Not a flashy, lets start running around to make it look like I'm a gunslinger.

If you want to think that Campbell is going to wake up and be Peyton Manning next year then.. Well that's your opinion. In other words you agree that truly great QB's are very difficult to come by and truly great QB's don't need 30 something games to show it. I'm not against JC but at some point both sides have to realize what really JC really is.

It's still all irrelevant. We aren't the HC (thank god, we'd run this team to teh ground) so it's all moot.

[Voice_of_Reason]

If you want to think that Campbell is going to wake up and be Peyton Manning next year then.. Well that's your opinion. In other words you agree that truly great QB's are very difficult to come by and truly great QB's don't need 30 something games to show it. I'm not against JC but at some point both sides have to realize what really JC really is.

Sometimes it takes longer, sometimes it takes shorter. I also think that you have to take into account that sometimes situations count for something.

I'm not going to turn this thread into a Gibbs bash-a-thon, but I think that we can all agree that maybe, just maybe, the Gibbs/Saunders offensive coaching staff was dysfunctional to a point, and maybe this is actually more like JCs first year with real NFL QB coaching.

I don't expect JC to wake up next year and be Peyton. But I can expect him to be as good as D. McNabb in this offense in his second full year in it, and that was good enough for 4 NFC Championship games. And if he's just a tad better...

I've said this from the beginning. I just want to give the guy a real chance. And that means 2 years with the same system, the same coach, the same receivers, and some semblance of protection to see what he can do. If he craps the bed, put the next guy in, you won't get any arguments from me. But I just don't believe that there's a system set up right now for him to be very succesful. Protection is bad, the WRs, Moss aside, are below average, and the Rookies haven't done anything. So it's asking a lot for anybody to overcome all that.

[Voice_of_Reason]

It's still all irrelevant. We aren't the HC (thank god, we'd run this team to teh ground) so it's all moot.

Ah, but that takes all the fun out of it.

I think that the 'Skins should fire Zorn, and just put polls up on ExtremeSkins for all decisions. We have proved with the pro bowl voting that we like to vote, so we might be able to even do play calling that way. (j/k)

[Voice_of_Reason]

If you want to think that Campbell is going to wake up and be Peyton Manning next year then.. Well that's your opinion. In other words you agree that truly great QB's are very difficult to come by and truly great QB's don't need 30 something games to show it. I'm not against JC but at some point both sides have to realize what really JC really is.

Just thought of something else. When I said, sometimes it takes longer, sometimes it takes shorter than 30 games. I'll give you a HOFer where it took decidedly longer: Steve Young. He was 3-16 in 2 years with the Bucs. He was seen as a complete bust, traded to the 49ers and the Bucs drafted Vinny Testeverde. He then sat on the bench for 3 years before getting the starting job in San Fran.

I'll give you even a better example of how sometimes it takes longer: Terry Bradshaw. He played TERRABLY his terribly his first 4 years and actually lost his starting job in 1974. Football historians will remember that's the year of the Steelers first SB victory. He got the job back, and won 4 SBs in 6 years, and ended up in the HOF.

So I'm not saying JC is going to be Peyton, Young or Bradshaw, but what I am saying is that patience is a virtue, and sometimes it takes longer than others.

And I have confidence in Campbell.

[Loyal2Washington]

I've said this from the beginning. I just want to give the guy a real chance. And that means 2 years with the same system, the same coach, the same receivers, and some semblance of protection to see what he can do. If he craps the bed, put the next guy in, you won't get any arguments from me.

What I'm saying is Campbell is not a great QB. Great QB's can win and make inferior talent better. Campbell has never done that and shown no signs of having that quality.

Now I also said JC can be a very good Qb if surrounded by a good cast of players. There is nothing wrong with that. I agree with we have more and bigger problems on this team then Campbell and have stated that I hope the team makes the proper changes this off season to help Campbell along.

As far as Young and Bradshaw are concerned those are two different stories in two different era's of the game.

[mcarey032]

People want to unfairly blame Campbell for all our problems. What about in the Saints game when he hit Santana? Or What about when he side stepped a lions defender and hit Santana for a bomb touchdown. What about going to the Cowboys and leading the team to victory? People have such short memories it is absolutely rediculous! Get off his back. OL step and play ball. It is really amazing the hair trigger society we live in which people want to go after players because they have two bad games. I guess some people don't have perspective. We are still 6-4 and control our destiny when it comes to the playoffs.

[Campbell4Clipboard]

People want to unfairly blame Campbell for all our problems. What about in the Saints game when he hit Santana? Or What about when he side stepped a lions defender and hit Santana for a bomb touchdown. What about going to the Cowboys and leading the team to victory? People have such short memories it is absolutely rediculous! Get off his back. OL step and play ball. It is really amazing the hair trigger society we live in which people want to go after players because they have two bad games. I guess some people don't have perspective. We are still 6-4 and control our destiny when it comes to the playoffs.

It's not about the 2 losses it's the WAY we lost on the national stage. Our offense, particular JC looked confused and putrid, we average 8pts per game at home. What worries me the most is the fact that it looks like our offense plays with no confidence and JC is showing no leadership qualities that top shelf QBs posses.

[corrupt3d]

It's not about the 2 losses it's the WAY we lost on the national stage. Our offense, particular JC looked confused and putrid, we average 8pts per game at home. What worries me the most is the fact that it looks like our offense plays with no confidence and JC is showing no leadership qualities that top shelf QBs posses.

Interesting, because the offense talks alot about how confident JC is and how he has really taken to the leadership role.

I'd rather trust them.