CNN: Iraq's Cabinet approves U.S. security pact (US out by 12/31/2011)

[twa]

Some of the best news any one of us has heard in a long time.

Let's fight about it and see who should have the blame/credit.

Agreed, we are set to leave with Iraq stable and goodwill and military and economic cooperation from them and people wish to squabble?

[AsburySkinsFan]

Really? Because it seems like we just, you know, told the enemy the dates that we're leaving.

:secret: ssshhhhhh, don't tell them that it'll ruin everything they are trying to say.

[SkinsHokieFan]

Some of the best news any one of us has heard in a long time.

Let's fight about it and see who should have the blame/credit.

Should we expect anything different in the tailgate? OLS

This news really made my day. Our boys will be home no later then 12/31/2011. If the conditions are right to get them out quicker, then it'll happen. I also don't think that President Obama would want to leave Iraq in anything but the best shape

Could you imagine how much his political prospects would sink if we get out too early, Iraq falls into chaos, and God forbid a terror attack hits here that is generated from Iraq?

[JMS]

So it's your position that Iraq is still utter and complete chaos, and that the Iraqis want to go it on their own?

Yep pretty much.

From our perspective Iraq is in complete order cause the folks who used to be shooting and blowing up our soldiers aren't doing so anymore. From the Iraqi perspective the country is a complete mess.

The Shia's love us because we put them in power and have trained outfited and paid for their new shinny Shia dominated pro Iranian national army. The Shia's also hate us because we've done the exact same thing to both of their primary enemies the Sunnies and the Kurds. We've got more than 300,000 American trained, salaried, and outfited Iraqi insurgents on the American Payroll now not associated with the National Government in Iraq. 180,000 sunnies and at least that many Kurds.

Three totally segregated armies all paid for and outfited by the US in the same country all of which hate each other. They aren't shooting at us because we are handing them checks, gunds and amo every week. But those guys are training for war, and the moment we leave the gravy train stops and it's pretty clear what's going to happen.

A humongous mess.

[Koolblue13]

When will the people of Iraq have running water and electric again?

I think that may win us a little support.

[JMS]

Some of the best news any one of us has heard in a long time.

Let's fight about it and see who should have the blame/credit.

You might want to chack the fine print on that agreement signed by the Bush administration... Two huge concessions bush made to the Iraqi's to get their endorsement of this agreement.

#1.. American troops now come under Iraqi law and can be tried in Iraqi coarts for violation of their laws..

#2 American troops need to get an Iraqi judges coart order in order to enter and Iraqi's home or to detain an Iraqi suspect. The bright side is although the IRaqi pm has endorsed this deal, and the Iraqi parlement has signed on, there is still a chance the Iraqi parlement will reject it.

It's a very troubling compromise that the Bush administration has advanced in order to keep a very tenous grip on Iraq.

[AsburySkinsFan]

You might want to chack the fine print on that agreement signed by the Bush administration... Two huge concessions bush made to the Iraqi's to get their endorsement of this agreement.

#1.. American troops now come under Iraqi law and can be tried in Iraqi coarts for violation of their laws..

#2 American troops need to get an Iraqi judges coart order in order to enter and Iraqi's home or to detain an Iraqi suspect.

It's a very troubling compromise that the Bush administration has advanced in order to keep a very tenous grip on Iraq.

Yeah, I heard about those this morning on NPR, Bush cannot be happy about those, I'm just wondering what they got for giving into those concessions?

[JMS]

Yeah, I heard about those this morning on NPR, Bush cannot be happy about those, I'm just wondering what they got for giving into those concessions?

The UN mandate which currently authorizes the US occupation of Iraq runs out in December 2008. This agreement gives us the honor and priviledge of staying in Iraq for two more years at 10 billion a month....

Period, the end.

We get to keep the delusion alive for two more years that the Iraqi war wasn't a total farse.

One of the few "benifits" which still allowed proponents of the Iraqi war to claim value / merit in this war was that America go a land base right in the middle of the Persian gulf likely the most strategic areas of the world. It was expensive, and it cost many lives, but in the long term America is more secure with a presence in the gulf; something we've not had since the Shah was in power. That's the argument and those proponents are still klinging to that idea.

This "treaty" basically kicks the can down the road to the next administration and keeps Bush from having to remove the troops by the orders of the pro Iranian Shia government of Iraq which he himself put into power.

[AsburySkinsFan]

The UN mandate which currently authorizes the US occupation of Iraq runs out in December 2008. This agreement gives us the honor and priviledge of staying in Iraq for two more years at 10 billion a month....

Period, the end.

We get to keep the delusion alive for two more years that the Iraqi war wasn't a total farce.

Hopefully Obama holds to this and gets us out sooner, at least then he can point to this and say that we have permission to leave, "regardless of conditions on the ground" which is what so many have kept saying will keep us in Iraq indefinitely.

One of the few "benifits" which still allowed proponents of the Iraqi war to claim value / merit in this war was that America go a land base right in the middle of the Persian gulf likely the most strategic areas of the world. It was expensive, and it cost many lives, but in the long term America is more secure with a presence in the gulf; something we've not had since the Shah was in power. That's the argument and those proponents are still klinging to that idea.

Yeah, that was the Neo-Con plan, which became a self fulfilling prophecy, because once we were in we couldn't just pull out regardless of what the facts turned out to be, in that way the defense contractors were happy, and we got ourselves a presence in the Gulf that we'll spend billions defending in order to keep the oil flowing. This is just Emperialsim without the planting of flags.

This "treaty" basically kicks the can down the road to the next administration and keeps Bush from having to remove the troops by the orders of the pro Iranian Shia government of Iraq which he himself put into power.

But, at least this gives us an out which we didn't have before.

[JMS]

But, at least this gives us an out which we didn't have before.

This treaty if the Iraqi Parlement endorses it, gives us the Iraqi legislatures agreement to keep our troops there for two more years. We don't need their agreement to leave. We never have.

Iraq is a huge mess. It's a powder keg waiting to go off again.

The "calm" over the last 12 months in Iraq came at a significant price. The price was rationality. The method we (Patreaus) used to get the Sunnies to stop blowing up our troops was to basically bribe them and become their allies. That's right the guys who used to be responsible for 70-80% of our casualites (Sadam's old boys the Sunnies) are now on the American payroll. recieveing American weapons and American ammo.. Which wouldn't be all that terrible a thing if we weren't also arming and outfiting two other humongous armies in Iraq all segregated along religous and secular grounds.

When these guys do start shooting at each other and us again; it's going to be a lot more difficult to pull out and wash our hands of the mess which we created.

Before we were responsible because we created the vacume. When round II comes along we will be responsible cause we will have given them the arms, paid for their salaries, and trained all of the combatants.

This treaty gives us two more years of exposure to see that eventuality occur.

[AsburySkinsFan]

Iraq is a huge mess. It's a powder keg waiting to go off again.

The "calm" over the last 12 months in Iraq came at a significant price. The price was rationality. The method we used to get the Sunnies to stop blowing up our troops was to basically bribe them and become their allies. That's right the guys who used to be responsible for 70-80% of our casualites are now on the American payroll. recieveing American weapons and American ammo..

That's the third rival army we are funding, training and outfitting in Iraq.

When these guys do start shooting at each other and us again; it's going to be a lot more difficult to pull out and wash our hands of the mess which we created.

This treaty gives us two more years of exposure to see that eventuality.

Agreed, so many times I feel like we are just the Little Dutch Boy. There is even talk today that the likes of Al Sadar will block the Pact.

[da#1skinsfan]

So we are giving the opposition a date on when we are leaving...and we are saying no matter what, thats the date we are leaving?

This seems really, really smart.

"Johnny (terrorists in iraq), mommy and daddy (us troops) will be leaving for precisely 2 weeks, exactly on Tuesday at 9AM. We left the liquor cabinet (oil reserves) totally stocked, and some loaded guns (armaments) in the closet in case you get bored. Also, there is tons and tons of money hidden all around the house (treasures, personal possessions), so feel free to go and tear everything up to find it (innocent peoples villages), since we are definitely leaving on that date and you'll without a doubt be free to roam. We're going to have Aunt Janice (iraqi troops) come in and check on you once a week, but she neither has the know-how (training) or internal fortitude (moral fiber) to discipline you in the event you break the rules.

HAVE FUN!!!!!!!

[JMS]

Agreed, so many times I feel like we are just the Little Dutch Boy. There is even talk today that the likes of Al Sadar will block the Pact.

He would if he could, because like I said we are arming the folks who he wants to be killing. The folks who killed his father. What's left of Saddam's followers.

Sadder adn his allies walked out of the parlement during the debate of this bill. Problem is Sadder doesn't have the votes to block it on his own and the PM and cabinent have already endorsed it. In a parlementary system the PM with the cabinent endorsement is pretty much a lock to pass a bill in the main body, cause by definition the PM has the majority support in his legislature.

[AsburySkinsFan]

"Johnny (terrorists in iraq), mommy and daddy (us troops) will be leaving for precisely 2 weeks, exactly on Tuesday at 9AM. We left the liquor cabinet (oil reserves) totally stocked, and some loaded guns (armaments) in the closet in case you get bored. Also, there is tons and tons of money hidden all around the house (treasures, personal possessions), so feel free to go and tear everything up to find it (innocent peoples villages), since we are definitely leaving on that date and you'll without a doubt be free to roam. We're going to have Aunt Janice (iraqi troops) come in and check on you once a week, but she neither has the know-how (training) or internal fortitude (moral fiber) to discipline you in the event you break the rules.

HAVE FUN!!!!!!!

p.s. kids, the reason we're leaving is because we're tired of giving you kids weapons in the hope that you won't kill us, and after all these years we're done trying to cover up the fact that I let your father trick me into moving into this crappy neighborhood, so we're done pouring money into this money pit. So just feel free to carry on like you did before we got here, and don't worry about the police, they're so corrupt that not even we can do anything about them. Have fun, and don't forget to write.

[JMS]

So we are giving the opposition a date on when we are leaving...and we are saying no matter what, thats the date we are leaving?

This seems really, really smart.

You've got it backwards. This Iraqi bill is all about the Iraqi's telling us when we will be leaving, not the other way around.

Figure when the fighting starts in ernist again; whichever side is loosing will ask us to continue to stay.

The Kurds who are basically an atonoumous nation in the north and who we've been occupying since the early 1990's and who still want us there.

The pro Iranian Shia who control the national government and who are telling us today to get out.

The Sunnies (former Sadam's boys) who all of our allies in the region including the Egyptians, Saudi's and even Israel are supporting; cause the alternative is not in their or our interest.

A democratic Shia dominated Iraq which Bush has been working towards now for going on six years.

[Prosperity]

Look everyone, this is VERY good news. I see no reason why anyone needs to take partisan shots in this thread

You are right this is great news

my position is the same as yours, I don't think people ought to use relatively good news to justify all sorts of ****ty things that have had to have happened to get us to this position just because it fits in to what their political agenda dictates. I mean you wouldn't want people to think that just because we got to this position in Iraq that somehow it was a good idea overall as a project, because then projects like this might be repeated like say... in Pakistan.

otherwise yes, it is good news and we should be happy, but let's not be stupid about it either

[GibbsFactor]

Hey let's cut costs, it only makes sense right?

Sure, what's this 10b a month bill here?

Yep, we can certainly do with out that!

[Zguy28]

Obama will have the troops out before that date.

He'd better. He promised they would be out by April of 2010.