Who's Number 2

[Califan007 The Constipated]

But he's not even the best QB in his division.

If you go by a combination of QB rating and number of wins he is lol :cool:...

[DWinzit]

Brees

Campbell

Haynesworth

Tuck

Fletcher

Ware

[bubba9497]

But he's not even the best QB in his division.

yes he is, by a lot so far this year

[CrypticVillain]

Sounds like you're chanting for the janitor to clean up something on aisle three...

lol

But he's not even the best QB in his division.

[SteveFromYellowstone]

Drew Brees without question. I think you could make an argument for him to be 1st though. If he breaks the single season passing yards record, it'll be icing on the cake. I'd say Brees is the most valuable player to his team at this moment. The Saints could do nothing without him.

[ACW]

So I guess that a "teams" MVP and "league" MVP should have different meanings.

Perfect example. We all know that Tom Brady won MVP last year. But I am telling you, without Moss the Patriots would not have did what they did last year. The same could be said for Brady, especially this year, but they are still 5-2.

That is why I hate the term MVP. Most Outstanding Player should be the real term.

Difference IMO: MVP is most valuable to the team, MOP is the best.

For example, in the NBA last season, Kobe was MVP, but a case could've been made for LeBron for MOP even if they wouldn't've made the playoffs.

EDIT: Even better, for MVP QB JC, but MOP QB=Brees

:2cents:

[Big Blue Joe]

If you go by a combination of QB rating and number of wins he is lol :cool:...

And if you factor in things that QB's need to do that aren't covered by the woefully incomplete passer rating like avoid sacks, not fumble the ball, put away bad teams, or beat the best teams in the league, he's not.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

And if you factor in things that QB's need to do that aren't covered by the woefully incomplete passer rating like avoid sacks, not fumble the ball, or beat the best teams in the league, he's not.

Ah, ok. Well, let's factor INTs and fumbles lost equally then, since they're both turnovers.

If that's the case, then let's see:

Romo sits to pee: 1 turnover every 25 attempts

McNabb: 1 turnover every 49 attempts

Manning: 1 turnover every 56 attempts

Campbell: 1 turnover every 230 attempts

Winner: Jason Campbell by a HUGE margin.

So if you factor in QB rating, turnover-per-attempt ratio, and wins, Jason Campbell is the best QB in the NFC East right now.

Oh, but wait...you also said sacks, didn't you. Hmm...ok, let's see:

Campbell: 1 sack every 14.4 attempts

McNabb: 1 turnover every 20.4 attempts

Romo sits to pee: 1 sack every 28.6 attempts

Manning: 1 sack every 37.2 attempts

Well, looks like Campbell is behind the other NFC East QBs in terms of sacks. But should sacks be given the same weight as, say, turnovers? I don't think so. A sack you at least retain possession and can rebound from it on the next play. A turnover, however, there is no "next play".

So while sacks are important, they're not as important as the other stats being discussed: TD %, Turnover %, Completion %, Yards Per Attempt, and number of wins. QB rating, with an adjustment for total turnovers instead of just INTs, covers the first four categories. The standings can tell you the last.

As for beating the "best teams in the league", who ARE the best teams in the league? I guess we can say Titans, Giants, Redskins and Panthers, if just going on records. In that case:

Eli Manning: beat Redskins

Jason Campbell: lost to Giants

Tony Romo sits to pee: lost to Redskins

Donovan McNabb: lost to Redskins

Looks like Eli has a one-game advantage over Jason Campbell...although it's more than a bit ironic that in that "one game advantage", Campbell put up better stats than Eli did:

Completion rate:

Jason Campbell - 55.6%

Eli Manning - 54.3%

# of TDs:

Jason Campbell - 1

Eli Manning - 0

# of INTs:

Jason Campbell - 0

Eli Manning - 1

# of sacks:

Jason Campbell - 1

Eli Manning - 2

QB Rating:

Jason Campbell - 81.2

Eli Manning - 61.1

But, hey, even if Jason Campbell outperformed Eli Manning in that game, Manning still gets the nod as the "better" QB in terms of beating the best teams in the league since the Giants did win that game. Then again, we could go by the number of division wins of each QB in the NFC East:

Jason Campbell: 2-1

Eli Manning: 1-0

Tony Romo sits to pee: 1-1

Donovan McNabb: 0-2

And in terms of completion percentage, let's take a gander:

Eli Manning - 61.4% completion rate

Donovan McNabb - 62.9%

Tony Romo sits to pee - 64.0%

Jason Campbell - 66.1%

In terms of TD percentage:

Donovan McNabb - 3.3%

Jason Campbell - 3.5%

Eli Manning - 4.0%

Tony Romo sits to pee - 7.0%

In terms of yards per attempt:

Eli Manning - 7.1 ypa

Donovan McNabb - 7.5 ypa

Jason Campbell - 7.6 ypa

Tony Romo sits to pee - 8.4 ypa

So I guess one last thing we should look at is how well each QB plays when the game is on the line: in the 4th quarter. That's when the best QBs tend to really shine. Let's see...

Completion rate in the 4th quarter:

Eli Manning - 66.7%

Tony Romo sits to pee - 67.4%

Donovan McNabb - 70.8%

Jason Campbell - 70.8%

Yards per attempt in the 4th quarter:

Donovan McNabb - 6.7 ypa

Eli Manning - 7.9 ypa

Jason Campbell - 9.8 ypa

Tony Romo sits to pee - 11.4 ypa

QB rating in the 4th quarter:

Donovan McNabb - 95.8 QB rating

Eli Manning - 105.5 QB rating

Jason Campbell - 122.8 QB rating

Tony Romo sits to pee - 142.0 QB rating

No need to compute TD percentage because each QB may not have needed to score a TD in the 4th quarter to win. They may have only needed to play well and retain possession of the ball.

So, to summarize...in the NFC East, Jason Campbell is:

#1 (tied) in terms of most wins

#1 in terms of most division wins

#1 in terms of turnovers-per-attempts ratio

#1 in terms of completion percentage

#1 in terms of 4th quarter completion percentage

#2 in terms of QB rating

#2 in terms of yards per attempt

#2 in terms of 4th quarter QB ratings

#2 in terms of 4th quarter yards per attempt

#3 in terms of TD percentage

#4 in terms of sacks

Hmm...yeah, I can see how that sacks rating just wipes out all the other ones, you betcha. :thumbsup:

[CrypticVillain]

So, to summarize...in the NFC East, Jason Campbell is:

#1 (tied) in terms of most wins

#1 in terms of most division wins

#1 in terms of turnovers-per-attempts ratio

#1 in terms of completion percentage

#1 in terms of 4th quarter completion percentage

#2 in terms of QB rating

#2 in terms of yards per attempt

#2 in terms of 4th quarter QB ratings

#2 in terms of 4th quarter yards per attempt

#3 in terms of TD percentage

#4 in terms of sacks

Dude, you just analyzed the mess out of QB play in the NFC East. And what is even better is that Campbell is doing good in most of the categories. Gotta fix those sacks though, but at least it is better then a turnover.

[Big Blue Joe]

Ah, ok. Well, let's factor INTs and fumbles lost equally then, since they're both turnovers.

If that's the case, then let's see:

Romo sits to pee: 1 turnover every 25 attempts

McNabb: 1 turnover every 49 attempts

Manning: 1 turnover every 56 attempts

Campbell: 1 turnover every 230 attempts

Winner: Jason Campbell by a HUGE margin.

So if you factor in QB rating, turnover-per-attempt ratio, and wins, Jason Campbell is the best QB in the NFC East right now.

Campbell has done a good job of not turning the ball over.

Oh, but wait...you also said sacks, didn't you. Hmm...ok, let's see:

Campbell: 1 sack every 14.4 attempts

McNabb: 1 turnover every 20.4 attempts

Romo sits to pee: 1 sack every 28.6 attempts

Manning: 1 sack every 37.2 attempts

Well, looks like Campbell is behind the other NFC East QBs in terms of sacks. But should sacks be given the same weight as, say, turnovers? I don't think so. A sack you at least retain possession and can rebound from it on the next play. A turnover, however, there is no "next play".

So while sacks are important, they're not as important as the other stats being discussed: TD %, Turnover %, Completion %, Yards Per Attempt, and number of wins. QB rating, with an adjustment for total turnovers instead of just INTs, covers the first four categories. The standings can tell you the last.

Sacks definitely hurt, and they are quite often drive killers(for instance, Campbell's first drive of the season). But who said anything about giving sacks and turnovers equal weight? The problem for Campbell here is the overall number of turnovers compared to the number of sacks and the frequency of each occurence. Campbell has turned the ball over 3 less times than Eli, but he's also been sacked 10 more times than Manning. In addition, there have been 3 games this season where Eli has neither been sacked or turned the ball over. There have been 2 such games for McNabb, and none for Campbell or Romo sits to pee. Campbell and Romo sits to pee consistently put their teams in tougher positions to score.

As for beating the "best teams in the league", who ARE the best teams in the league? I guess we can say Titans, Giants, Redskins and Panthers, if just going on records. In that case:

Eli Manning: beat Redskins, beat the Steelers

Jason Campbell: lost to Giants

Tony Romo sits to pee: lost to Redskins

Donovan McNabb: lost to Redskins,beat the Steelers

That's odd. You left out the Steelers? Eli has won against 2 teams that are currently 2 or more games above .500. Mcnabb and Campbell are 1-1. Romo sits to pee is 0-1 and Brad Johnson is 1-0(QB controversy) . Eli and McNabb are the only QB's in the division to beat a team 3 or more games over .500. Romo sits to pee and Campbell both lost in their sole opportunity.

Looks like Eli has a one-game advantage over Jason Campbell...although it's more than a bit ironic that in that "one game advantage", Campbell put up better stats than Eli did:

Completion rate:

Jason Campbell - 55.6%

Eli Manning - 54.3%

# of TDs:

Jason Campbell - 1

Eli Manning - 0

# of INTs:

Jason Campbell - 0

Eli Manning - 1

# of sacks:

Jason Campbell - 1

Eli Manning - 2

QB Rating:

Jason Campbell - 81.2

Eli Manning - 61.1

LOL. Eli put together 4 scoring drives compared to 1 for Campbell. He also threw for 80 more yards and 1.3 more yards per attempt. But Campbell "outperformed" Eli because he completed 5 third down(plus 1 fourth down) passes short of the first down marker and Eli chose to juke Rocky McIntosh out of shoes:laugh: and run in a TD instead of throwing for one.

But, hey, even if Jason Campbell outperformed Eli Manning in that game, Manning still gets the nod as the "better" QB in terms of beating the best teams in the league since the Giants did win that game. Then again, we could go by the number of division wins of each QB in the NFC East:

Jason Campbell: 2-1

Eli Manning: 1-0

Tony Romo sits to pee: 1-1

Donovan McNabb: 0-2

Or we could go by the number of division losses. Which puts Campbell in the middle of the pack.

In terms of TD percentage:

Donovan McNabb - 3.3%

Jason Campbell - 3.5%

Eli Manning - 4.0%

Tony Romo sits to pee - 7.0%

Campbell has played in more games than any other QB in the division and has scored the least amount of TD's.

In terms of TD's per game:

Romo sits to pee- 2.3

Eli- 1.4

McNabb- 1.3

Campbell- 1

I've always thought that scoring points was pretty important for a QB.

So I guess one last thing we should look at is how well each QB plays when the game is on the line: in the 4th quarter. That's when the best QBs tend to really shine. Let's see...

Completion rate in the 4th quarter:

Eli Manning - 66.7%

Tony Romo sits to pee - 67.4%

Donovan McNabb - 70.8%

Jason Campbell - 70.8%

Yards per attempt in the 4th quarter:

Donovan McNabb - 6.7 ypa

Eli Manning - 7.9 ypa

Jason Campbell - 9.8 ypa

Tony Romo sits to pee - 11.4 ypa

QB rating in the 4th quarter:

Donovan McNabb - 95.8 QB rating

Eli Manning - 105.5 QB rating

Jason Campbell - 122.8 QB rating

Tony Romo sits to pee - 142.0 QB rating

No need to compute TD percentage because each QB may not have needed to score a TD in the 4th quarter to win. They may have only needed to play well and retain possession of the ball.

To be fair, Campbell has HAD to play better in the 4th quarter than any other QB in the NFC East. The Cowboys have won 3 games this year by more than 1 possession. The Eagles and the Giants have won 4 games in similar fashion. Halfway through the season, the Redskins have yet to win a game this by more than 1 possession. In fact, Campbell has only won 1 such game in his entire career.

So, to summarize...in the NFC East, Jason Campbell is:

#1 (tied) in terms of most wins

#1 in terms of most division wins

#1 in terms of turnovers-per-attempts ratio

#1 in terms of completion percentage

#1 in terms of 4th quarter completion percentage

#2 in terms of QB rating

#2 in terms of yards per attempt

#2 in terms of 4th quarter QB ratings

#2 in terms of 4th quarter yards per attempt

#3 in terms of TD percentage

#4 in terms of sacks

Hmm...yeah, I can see how that sacks rating just wipes out all the other ones, you betcha. :thumbsup:

Not by itself, but Campbell is also last in division in attempts/game, yards/game, and overall TD's scored(despite playing in 2 more games than Romo sits to pee and 1 more than Eli and McNabb). I have a hard time believing the QB who throws the ball fewest times for the fewest yards with the most sacks and fewest TD's scored is the best QB in the division.

[illone]

You have to throw Eli in the discussion, just based on the teams record and how much better he has looked this season than the beginning of last year and years past.

Campbell has played better than Eli, though. Not saying he's the better overall player, but he's certainly played better up to this point this year.

CP is running away with it, but you have to consider Eli, Campbell, and Brees.

[bubba9497]

Hmm...yeah, I can see how that sacks rating just wipes out all the other ones, you betcha.

sacks are on the o-line, not QB

in fact, JC is putting up better numbers while being under more pressure and sacked more often, only proves his merits as being the better QB

[kevin11]

Are you seriously trying to tell us that Campbell isn't doing that good?

Nobody in our division except maybe Mcnabb is playing at Campbell's level. Eli has had only 1 close game and that was last week against the Steelers. Campbell has had every one of his games be close including our division winners. The Giants MVP is in their running game/defense, not their game managing QB. Eli Manning has yet to put the team on his back in win a game. Campbell has had 2 games like that, Saints and Cowboys and you could include Detroit.

I know you probably think we are overrated because you smashed us, but we are a much different team than when you last played us. Campbell gets the ball out much faster, Portis is killing everybody, Moss is getting TD, and our defense is amazing.

[CrypticVillain]

I know you probably think we are overrated because you smashed us, but we are a much different team than when you last played us.

They didn't even smash us for real. Ask them what happen in that second half. They might of still had one but we pretty much put the clamps on them in that second half. Next game will be like that second half.

[Santana_Fan]

Eli Manning has yet to put the team on his back in win a game.

He "tried" to do that against the Browns...

[Big Blue Joe]

Are you seriously trying to tell us that Campbell isn't doing that good?

No not at all. This is the NFCE we're talking about. I have no problem with Jacobs being arguably the worst starting RB in the division. It's not a slight against Campbell to claim he isn't the best QB.

Nobody in our division except maybe Mcnabb is playing at Campbell's level. Eli has had only 1 close game and that was last week against the Steelers. Campbell has had every one of his games be close including our division winners. The Giants MVP is in their running game/defense, not their game managing QB. Eli Manning has yet to put the team on his back in win a game. Campbell has had 2 games like that, Saints and Cowboys and you could include Detroit.

Eli is a "game manager"? He's thrown more times/game for more yards/game with more TD's/game than Jason Campbell. What do you mean by game manager?

I know you probably think we are overrated because you smashed us, but we are a much different team than when you last played us. Campbell gets the ball out much faster, Portis is killing everybody, Moss is getting TD, and our defense is amazing.

I have no idea where the Skins are at. The offense has played better since week 1. But the Giants are also the best D the Skins have faced this season. I'm reserving judgment until I see how they do against an even better D on Monday night.

[kevin11]

No not at all. This is the NFCE we're talking about. I have no problem with Jacobs being arguably the worst starting RB in the division. It's not a slight against Campbell to claim he isn't the best QB.

Campbell is the best in our division right now. Other than Mcnabb nobody is playing as efficient as him.

Eli is a "game manager"? He's thrown more times/game for more yards/game with more TD's/game than Jason Campbell. What do you mean by game manager?

You guys rely more on the running game to win then you do on Eli Manning. You have two RB that get probably 15 carries a game each.

For this season, JC has more yards and more attempts. JC has 1754 to Eli's 1588. JC has 230 attempts to Eli 223 attempts.

In the last 4 games (not including detriot), JC has been a game manager, but against the cowboys, saints, and detriot, he put the team on his back to win.

I have no idea where the Skins are at. The offense has played better since week 1. But the Giants are also the best D the Skins have faced this season. I'm reserving judgment until I see how they do against an even better D on Monday night.

Ummm, we played against the eagles and the cowboys who both have good defenses. Both were top 10 when we played them. Eagles have probably the best rush defense in our division, but we thrashed them.

:laugh:....