AsburySkinsFan Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 Well, at least he used to....the 2 minute mark starts the real nail in the coffin. http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=189119&title=mccain-says-the-s-word October 12, 2008 "I think its to some degree that we feel obviously that wealthy people can afford more...Here's what I really believe, when you are, reach a certain level of comfort there is nothing wrong with paying somewhat more." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 McCain has never said he's for a flat tax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulane Skins Fan Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 McCain has never said he's for a flat tax. Well, what is he saying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted October 22, 2008 Author Share Posted October 22, 2008 McCain has never said he's for a flat tax. Uhh...so when was that an issue? The point is that when Obama calls for some higher taxes on the rich McCain 2.0 calls it socialism, but 8 years ago under McCain 1.0 he said there was nothing wrong with it because they could afford to pay more. Get it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teller Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 Uhh...so when was that an issue? The point is that when Obama calls for some higher taxes on the rich McCain 2.0 calls it socialism, but 8 years ago under McCain 1.0 he said there was nothing wrong with it because they could afford to pay more. Get it? He probably thought he could reel the base (read: me) back in with some BS rhetoric; much like he did with his flip-flop on illegal immigration. Sadly, the old man has no clue how transparent he is these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 Well, what is he saying? McCain isn't calling for the abolishment or even serious modifications of our current income tax system. There will still be higher tax brackets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted October 22, 2008 Author Share Posted October 22, 2008 McCain isn't calling for the abolishment or even serious modifications of our current income tax system. There will still be higher tax brackets. Yet Obama is apparently a socialist for saying the same thing. Hypocrisy personified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulane Skins Fan Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 McCain isn't calling for the abolishment or even serious modifications of our current income tax system. There will still be higher tax brackets. So why is he a capitalist and Obama a socialist then, according to some? Some have even called him a communist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenaa Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 Anyone who thinks taxes for all aren't getting raised, whomever takes office, has blinders on. No candidate will cut spending, so the only alternative is to raise taxes. I'd so love a real fiscal conservative to come along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 Uhh...so when was that an issue? The point is that when Obama calls for some higher taxes on the rich McCain 2.0 calls it socialism, but 8 years ago under McCain 1.0 he said there was nothing wrong with it because they could afford to pay more. Get it? No. Even under McCain's plan their will be higher tax brackets where people will pay more taxes. This has been discussed before. There isn't anything default socialistic (using socialist in the context it is being used in this thread because I don't want to get into a definition of what socialist means) about taxes, even if the taxes aren't evenly distributed, if the taxes are going to help everybody. When things start to lean towards socialism is when you use taxes to take money from a few to specifically benefit others. In that sense, we have still been a somewhat socialist country. Obama leans more that way than McCain. Obama is more socialist (using the defintion that is the basis of this thread) than McCain. It isn't that hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulane Skins Fan Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 No.Even under McCain's plan their will be higher tax brackets where people will pay more taxes. This has been discussed before. There isn't anything default socialistic (using socialist in the context it is being used in this thread because I don't want to get into a definition of what socialist means) about taxes, even if the taxes aren't evenly distributed, if the taxes are going to help everybody. When things start to lean towards socialism is when you use taxes to take money from a few to specifically benefit others. In that sense, we have still been a somewhat socialist country. Obama leans more that way than McCain. Obama is more socialist (using the defintion that is the basis of this thread) than McCain. It isn't that hard. Socialism implies more than higher taxes. But Obama is talking about a tax rate that is 3 percentage points higher than what McCain is proposing in the 250K+ tax bracket, and he's getting called a socialist. Neither of them are socialists. Bottom line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted October 22, 2008 Author Share Posted October 22, 2008 It isn't that hard. You're right, it isn't that hard to avoid the issue when McCain is quoted for saying the same thing that Obama is now saying. Yet McCain is allowed to call Obama a socialist and everyone cheers but somehow McCain isn't a socialist for suggesting the same exact thing 8 years ago. The issue is McCain's hypocrisy. McCain: "I was for socialism, before I was against it." <---not a direct quote mind you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Mike Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 Uhh...so when was that an issue? The point is that when Obama calls for some higher taxes on the rich McCain 2.0 calls it socialism, but 8 years ago under McCain 1.0 he said there was nothing wrong with it because they could afford to pay more. Get it? Sort of like this?.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 So why is he a capitalist and Obama a socialist then, according to some? Some have even called him a communist. Well, the policies he's stating certainly aren't communist. He's more socialist (again using the word in the context its being used in this thread) than McCain because more so than McCain he believes in taxing the rich with the express objective of giving services directly to the less rich to a greater extent than McCain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted October 22, 2008 Author Share Posted October 22, 2008 Sort of like this?.... LOL, wow are we THAT desperate to divert the topic that we need to hijack the thread with old Gore stuff?! BTW, I never supported nor defended Gore, and what's more is that Gore is not the issue here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 You're right, it isn't that hard to avoid the issue when McCain is quoted for saying the same thing that Obama is now saying. Yet McCain is allowed to call Obama a socialist and everyone cheers but somehow McCain isn't a socialist for suggesting the same exact thing 8 years ago. The issue is McCain's hypocrisy.McCain: "I was for socialism, before I was against it." <---not a direct quote mind you. Again, no. McCain's current position is completely consistent w/ what he said then. Even under McCain's plan the wealthy will be in a higher tax bracket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teller Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 Again, no. McCain's current position is completely consistent w/ what he said then. Even under McCain's plan the wealthy will be in a higher tax bracket. That's true as long as we don't have a flat tax, no? I think the point is, the quote in the OP seems to reference INCREASING the percentage paid by the top tax brackets. Which makes it virtually identical to what Obama's proposing now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 Socialism implies more than higher taxes. But Obama is talking about a tax rate that is 3 percentage points higher than what McCain is proposing in the 250K+ tax bracket, and he's getting called a socialist.Neither of them are socialists. Bottom line. Well, I don't think there are absolutes in terms of socialism. Socialism is a gradual scale. Obama is more socialist than McCain. This country was less socialist than it is now. Liberals are moving us towards more socialism. Conservatives tend to resist change and therefore are against moves towards more socialism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted October 22, 2008 Author Share Posted October 22, 2008 Well, the policies he's stating certainly aren't communist. He's more socialist (again using the word in the context its being used in this thread) than McCain PeterMP, the issue here is not to what degree Obama and McCain are socialists, the issue is that McCain is hypocritically calling Obama a socialist for proposing the same things that he himself has proposed. because more so than McCain he believes in taxing the rich with the express objective of giving services directly to the less rich to a greater extent than McCain. Bottom line: if Obama is a socialist then McCain is too, different degrees and ideas about which way the money should flow aside the fact remains that McCain calling Obama a socialist as if he is not is hypocritical and should be condemned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted October 22, 2008 Author Share Posted October 22, 2008 Again, no. McCain's current position is completely consistent w/ what he said then. Even under McCain's plan the wealthy will be in a higher tax bracket. Peter you're not listening...if Obama and McCain are both offering similar plans but with varying degrees of taxes paid by the rich then either Obama is a socialist and so is McCain or neither of them are. Either way McCain is either being hypocritical or lying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted October 22, 2008 Author Share Posted October 22, 2008 This country was less socialist than it is now. Liberals are moving us towards more socialism. Conservatives tend to resist change and therefore are against moves towards more socialism. BTW, McCain is no conservative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 That's true as long as we don't have a flat tax, no?I think the point is, the quote in the OP seems to reference INCREASING the percentage paid by the top tax brackets. Which makes it virtually identical to what Obama's proposing now. Right. If that's your level of detail than its right, but that isn't the level of detail we are capable of discussing so a discussion at that level of detail is at best incomplete. Its like saying two things that are big are big. Its not wrong, but it really doesn't include all of the details if we know in fact one is bigger than the other. The Earth and Mars are both big. True The Earth is bigger than Mars. True McCain's point (in an over simplified manner) is that Obama is more socialist than him. ASF is saying, 'That is not true.' they're both socialist. They are, but you are ignoring a level of detail that we do have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulane Skins Fan Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 Well, I don't think there are absolutes in terms of socialism. Socialism is a gradual scale. Obama is more socialist than McCain.This country was less socialist than it is now. Liberals are moving us towards more socialism. Conservatives tend to resist change and therefore are against moves towards more socialism. Ok, but can I suggest that you are inherently portraying both men on the scale where you see them. I mean, both could be considered right of center on their tax plans (and if we were to compare them to the rest of the industrialized world, that would probably be accurate). So, what you are saying is that even though both are closer on the overall scale to anarchy, Obama is closer to socialism. Seems silly, no? Also, by just looking at who's a little further to the left or the right, we could say that Obama is also closer to communism (because communism is left of socialism) and we could also say that McCain is closer to fascism (which is on the right). Overall, these are all ridiculous. Whether or not one of them is "closer" to one of these descriptions is irrelevant. Neither of them are "close" to any of these descriptions. In fact, both are quite centrist, and I would say that on the big scale, both are closer to extreme right than extreme left views. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 BTW, McCain is no conservative. Again, maybe not if you discuss things in absolutes, but by any reasonable measure McCain is more conservative than Obama. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Mike Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 LOL, wow are we THAT desperate to divert the topic that we need to hijack the thread with old Gore stuff?!BTW, I never supported nor defended Gore, and what's more is that Gore is not the issue here. The point is not about Gore. It's about Politicians switching positions for political gain. They ALL do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.