Thinking Skins Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 So, with all the talk about Malcolm Kelly's knees, I was curious about how many players in the league have (had) this condition and how they've fared. Here's what I've found. Feel free to contribute if you think I've left anybody out. http://gridironfans.com/forums/latest-nfl-headlines/51994-rocky-mcintosh-has-degenerative-knee-condition.html Rocky McIntosh, LB, Redskins http://www.kffl.com/player/6606/NFL Curtis Enis, RB, Bears http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=120797 Curtis Martin, RB, Jets http://subscribers.footballguys.com/2008/08spotlight-CrumAl00.php Alge Crumpler, TE, Titans (possibly) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Bavaro Mark Bavaro, TE, Giants http://www.charliessports.com/sports-news/nfl-football-picks-news-16.html Darrell Jackson, WR, Seattle http://blog.footballguys.com/2007/08/28/torry-holt-knee-may-never-heal-properly-fantasy-impact/ Torry Holt, WR, Rams Thats pretty much all I've found on it. I don't know what this means with regard to Malcolm Kelly. I see some people on this list who were forced to retire after relatively short careers. Still, others are there who have been able to lead long careers (including Curtis Martin and Torry Holt). I don't know if there's such a thing as a 'serious' degenerative knee condition versus a mild one, or if the knee flaring up in a player's rookie year means more than it flaring up in say the player's 8th year. Also, is this something that a player can develop, or are they just born with it? Cause now I'm reading about Brady having bad knees and wondering what they're talking about (other than the surgery). But I do see an example of Kellen Winslow, who has a degenerative knee condition, and is currently 5th in the league in receptions by a TE. That makes my diagnosis that Kelly can at least have a decent career - if not a few good seasons. Mark Bavaro even missed a season because of his bad knees and came back to have a 43 catch 481 yard season with the Eagles and appeared in every game for the two seasons following rarely being able to practice in the 1990 season. Then there's Rocky McIntosh, whose knee condition may not be as bad as Kelly's, but he's playing like an all pro this year and was playing very well last year as well. I don't see how this condition has effected him at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRobi21 Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 Holt is the name that makes me happiest from the list. Holt is known for running some of the best routes in the NFL. If he is still able to do that with this whole knee condition, I think Malcolm will turn out fine. But I'm just a blind homer, so what do I know. (Happy 7,000 post to me. Yayy. I hate my life) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted October 18, 2008 Author Share Posted October 18, 2008 (Happy 7,000 post to me. Yayy. I hate my life) Everybody has so many more posts than me....I should hate my life more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cubanl81 Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 I don't know why but I have this blind faith, that Kelly could still have a break out year. I think "if" he can get on the field he'll be more productive then Thomas. Even though I think Thomas will have more big plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cubanl81 Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 Everybody has so many more posts than me....I should hate my life more At least you have four digit post counts. Considering post counts equals how important your are i'm a bottom feeder lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted October 18, 2008 Author Share Posted October 18, 2008 Holt is the name that makes me happiest from the list. Holt is known for running some of the best routes in the NFL. If he is still able to do that with this whole knee condition, I think Malcolm will turn out fine.But I'm just a blind homer, so what do I know. I saw Holt's name and it surprised me because how can the same injury that forced Terrell Davis to retire go unnoticed in one of the best WRs of the game? That's what got me to thinking that there's got to be some way of grading the degenerative knee condition. I know that I've read that the procedure for artificial knee replacement has gotten better, but I'm no WebMD and I won't even pretend to know what that means. So I'm left doubting that Kelly and Holt fall into the same category. I'm more questioning how players can play with this condition for a while, and then it just forces them to retire or sit out a yeat? Is it that the pain gets so bad that they just can't play any more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Brown Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 At least you have four digit post counts. Considering post counts equals how important your are i'm a bottom feeder lol. high post count= credibility, didn't you know that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted October 18, 2008 Author Share Posted October 18, 2008 I don't know why but I have this blind faith, that Kelly could still have a break out year. I think "if" he can get on the field he'll be more productive then Thomas. Even though I think Thomas will have more big plays. Yeah, I was counting on Kelly all along to have a good year this season (at least better than Thomas), but I didn't know then how serious his knee issues were as serious as they are. If they were so bad, then how'd he put up such good numbers at Oklahoma? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyKilmer Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 Kelly missed bowl games in college and rookie tryouts with injuries other then his knee. I dont mention this as anything other then fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
36HAMMER Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 i have to say this is why i wanted to pass on kelly. he has talent but he had this knee problem in college and yet they still took him. wouldn't it have been wiser to take the wr that went to the steelers.sorry, i'm having a brain fart and can't bring up his name.only time will tell how long he will be able to play and how much of a problem this knee will be , but the beginning is not promising.here's to hopeing it getts better.now i remember, limas sweed, we could have chosen him instead. granted he doesn't seem to be doing all that well in pittsburg right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRobi21 Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 i have to say this is why i wanted to pass on kelly. he has talent but he had this knee problem in college and yet they still took him. wouldn't it have been wiser to take the wr that went to the steelers.sorry, i'm having a brain fart and can't bring up his name.only time will tell how long he will be able to play and how much of a problem this knee will be , but the beginning is not promising.here's to hopeing it getts better. Limas Sweed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyKilmer Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 Limas Sweed. Has yet to play this season tough it is hoped he will this weekend http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AjlHPuYyipNzJLS0oR7_6rP.uLYF?slug=ap-steelers-sweeddebut&prov=ap&type=lgns Sweed, a second-round draft pick in April out of Texas, is expected to play in his first NFL regular-season game Sunday in Cincinnati. Sweed dressed for only one of Pittsburgh’s first five games, and didn’t play in any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Brown Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 i have to say this is why i wanted to pass on kelly. he has talent but he had this knee problem in college and yet they still took him. wouldn't it have been wiser to take the wr that went to the steelers.sorry, i'm having a brain fart and can't bring up his name.only time will tell how long he will be able to play and how much of a problem this knee will be , but the beginning is not promising.here's to hopeing it getts better.now i remember, limas sweed, we could have chosen him instead. granted he doesn't seem to be doing all that well in pittsburg right now. he's not doing well at all. he hasn't played in a game at all yet and is stuck behind a shallow receiving corps in pitts. so actually malcom has done more than he has with more adversity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRobi21 Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 Has yet to play this season tough it is hoped he will this weekendhttp://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AjlHPuYyipNzJLS0oR7_6rP.uLYF?slug=ap-steelers-sweeddebut&prov=ap&type=lgns That's what my Steelers fan friend tells me. I guess he's a bust also. :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Brown Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 That's what my Steelers fan friend tells me. I guess he's a bust also.:doh: definite bust. why hasn't he produced yet? why doesn't he have 400 yards and 4 td's yet? why, why, why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted October 18, 2008 Author Share Posted October 18, 2008 i have to say this is why i wanted to pass on kelly. he has talent but he had this knee problem in college and yet they still took him. wouldn't it have been wiser to take the wr that went to the steelers.sorry, i'm having a brain fart and can't bring up his name.only time will tell how long he will be able to play and how much of a problem this knee will be , but the beginning is not promising.here's to hopeing it getts better.now i remember, limas sweed, we could have chosen him instead. granted he doesn't seem to be doing all that well in pittsburg right now. I think it remains to be seen how good of a pick this was. I think that the prevaling opinion is that Kelly's talent level is greater than that of Sweed (and most others in the draft), but his knees are what scared teams away. But the fact that there have been players who have had degenerative knees and still had successful careers kinda makes the Kelly pick more understandable. But I'm forced to wonder if there has been any history of Kelly's knees swelling up before this. I know he had a knee injury in the 2007 Fiesta bowl (according to wikipedia), but he came back after that and had another good year, so who would have expected him to be responding like this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRobi21 Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 definite bust. why hasn't he produced yet? why doesn't he have 400 yards and 4 td's yet? why, why, why? Haha. You must hang out in the stadium a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Brown Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 Haha. You must hang out in the stadium a lot. its affecting the way i think....Everyones a bust but Colt and Horton!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaRonDontLikeUgly Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 We knew what we were getting into when we drafted Kelly. The entire world knew that his knees were being held together by Elmer's glue. But we took a shot. Why? Because Limas Sweed is a puss and James Hardy points guns at his family members. I still think Kelly was the best long-term choice of the three TALL GUYS (just had a weird Anthony Mix flashback) but maybe we should think about placing him on IR and getting him ready for next season. I mean, if the Skins were really pressed about getting Kelly out there, couldn't they just drain his swollen knee? I'm sure it could be more complicated than that.... but I had it done after every flag football game in college and never missed a snap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abdcskins Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 So it's confirmed that Kelly has this condition? Ehh....I have been against this pick from day one, but hopefully he can overcome it. It seems like every team was aware of his creaky knees except us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eljeasel Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 definite bust. why hasn't he produced yet? why doesn't he have 400 yards and 4 td's yet? why, why, why? Only 400 and 4 tds? That is just approaching production that you can say he MIGHT not be a bust Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cubanl81 Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 I'll tell you what if for some reason our rookie offense players start stepping it up by the end of the year. Alot of people will be eating some serious crow. I think one of them will start putting up numbers. I still think Davis could do something. Well see I'm ready to be patient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evilskinzfan47 Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 high post count= credibility, didn't you know that? Oh is that the way it works?Guess i'll have to become a post whore then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunterx Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 I'll tell you what if for some reason our rookie offense players start stepping it up by the end of the year. Alot of people will be eating some serious crow. I think one of them will start putting up numbers. I still think Davis could do something. Well see I'm ready to be patient. I second this. As long as our offense is moving the ball solidly using our running game and a good mix of Moss/Cooley/Randle El, we don't need to rush our rookies into the game. If we rush them, they run a wrong route, a CB gets the jump and runs it back for a TD. We've already seen how defenses running back balls for TD's can cost us a win...Let's not put our rookies in that position. And as for all of those people who compare these two to Jackson in Philly....Donovan and Andy Reid have repeatedly said that they forced him in to play too soon because of injuries to Brown/Curtis. They wouldn't have had him in for as many plays if it weren't for that. He's missed routes and had plenty of rookie mistakes. He's getting catches because he was Philly's only decent WR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Washington Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 I think Jeremiah Trotter also had this problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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