Smoot Point Really Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 I can't believe that anybody would seriously argue that the preamble is a valid justification for governmental powers, rather than just a flowery introduction. Score one for Techboy... The Preamble can't be used to add powers to the Federal Government not defined in other parts of the US Constitution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan133 Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 I noticed McCain loves to use that line but the only people it seems to have any affect on is conservatives. Spreading the wealth doesn’t seem like all that bad an idea to people who aren’t wealthy. I saw the Fox focus group and people saw that as a positive instead of a negative. A lady was like he wants to spread the wealth to improve health care. No one outside of Fox News is thinking socialism. dear God, when did it become acceptable to rob in the name of charity? I'm not wealthy by any means, i'm a friggin college student and I deplore Government redistribution of wealth. YOU ARE NOT ENTITLED TO OTHER PEOPLE'S MONEY!!! just in the same way you wouldn't expect me to break into your house and steal your new TV in the name of the salvation army :2cents: :2cents: :2cents: I don't care if it's 'noble' or for a 'good cause,' it is theft and the ends do not justify the means! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan133 Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 Greedy ****s don't want to share (a generalization not a reference to any particular right winger). Despite the fact that many of them belong to churches that promote sharing. Certainly Jesus did. I don't mind if my taxes go up a little... There is a fundamental difference between voluntarily giving and being forced into giving. If you feel that compelled to serve the people, donate to responsible charities. you have the freedom to do so. you do not have the freedom to force anyone else to do that.socialism is at its heart a violation of liberty in the name of equality. Government is by definition force, and not reason. :2cents: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan133 Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 Okay not every conservative has cable. Spreading the wealth is a conservative codeword like strict constitutionalist is a key word for F Roe v Wade. Unless McCain can explain why it's so bad, no one cares. do you really think people like me are really that shallow? If I could restructure the government to be more in line with how it should be acording to the constitution and be forced to keep roe forever, I'd do it in a heartbeat!I care, and aparently to you i'm no one. thanks budy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEANDWARF Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 So is everyone okay with us changing to a Socialist Government. Unreal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The 12th Commandment Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 There is a fundamental difference between voluntarily giving and being forced into giving. If you feel that compelled to serve the people, donate to responsible charities. you have the freedom to do so. you do not have the freedom to force anyone else to do that.socialism is at its heart a violation of liberty in the name of equality. Government is by definition force, and not reason. :2cents: What makes you think I don't? The fact is the opportunity to provide a fundamental service like health care, in a timely fashion and not just when people are on their death bed, is fiscally responsible in addition to simply being the right thing to do. The fiscal part is why we're going to force it on you. Same as we do for many programs. Trickle down economics was lowering others people's taxes and forcing it on me. You're going to have to accept it my friend. Or move to another country. It's easier to learn a foreign language when you're young so you'll be ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan133 Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 Give me a God dammned break everybody. I'm so sick and tired of Obamamaniacs and mcaniacs and all the other stupid childish morons in this country! It ain't ****ing black and white. " oh they forget this, they lie about that" you all lie, or have no idea what you're talking about. you all do the stupid mischaracterizations game. how about this. straight up facts: budget deficit: over 10 trillion bucks (that doesn't scare you?) we owe: over 3 trillion to the chinese alone... (idk that scares me) most of our social programs are BANKRUPT and we're talking about even MORE OF THEM! WE CAN'T AFFORD TO DO A GODDAMNED THING BOTH OF THE CANDIDATES ARE PROPOSING!!! AND NO ONE CARES!!!! you dismiss it as irrelevant or unimportant. I weep for my country, the one I grew up loving. the one I still love and hope can make it through. Obama, change? phhh lol. McCain, change? you've got to be kidding me. they're both full of absolute ****. how about this, you're all wrong and this country is ****ed no matter what because people are too damned stupid to see it. Jesus Christ... to every inhabitant of our fair and awsome land: you are all wrong. you are all stupid. we are all ****ed. :rant: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan133 Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 What makes you think I don't? The fact is the opportunity to provide a fundamental service like health care, in a timely fashion and not just when people are on their death bed, is fiscally responsible in addition to simply being the right thing to do. The fiscal part is why we're going to force it on you. Same as we do for many programs. Trickle down economics was lowering others people's taxes and forcing it on me. You're going to have to accept it my friend. Or move to another country. It's easier to learn a foreign language when you're young so you'll be ok. I don't want you to force it on me, what gives you, or anyone for that matter, the right to?and trickle down ecconomics is a smoke and mirrors game. taxes should be lowred and government reduced and slashed everywhere. I gauentee you if I were president I could save this country about $500 billion in my first hour in office. mark my words. give me a week and I would work wonders on our budget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The 12th Commandment Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 Give me a God dammned break everybody. I'm so sick and tired of Obamamaniacs and mcaniacs and all the other stupid childish morons in this country! It ain't ****ing black and white. " oh they forget this, they lie about that" you all lie, or have no idea what you're talking about. you all do the stupid mischaracterizations game.how about this. straight up facts: budget deficit: over 10 trillion bucks (that doesn't scare you?) we owe: over 3 trillion to the chinese alone... (idk that scares me) most of our social programs are BANKRUPT and we're talking about even MORE OF THEM! WE CAN'T AFFORD TO DO A GODDAMNED THING BOTH OF THE CANDIDATES ARE PROPOSING!!! AND NO ONE CARES!!!! you dismiss it as irrelevant or unimportant. I weep for my country, the one I grew up loving. the one I still love and hope can make it through. Obama, change? phhh lol. McCain, change? you've got to be kidding me. they're both full of absolute ****. how about this, you're all wrong and this country is ****ed no matter what because people are too damned stupid to see it. Jesus Christ... to every inhabitant of our fair and awsome land: you are all wrong. you are all stupid. we are all ****ed. :rant: With that bleak, pessimistic and uninformed an attitude I gotta wonder why you got out of bed this morning. Who ever's telling you it's always that bad is wrong. Things can be fixed, deficits can be paid down and all (or at least most) can be well. It's happened before. And as for your reply to me, all kinds of stuff I don't want or like has been forced on me throughout my life by governments large and small. You gotta accept it, work for change if you feel strongly about it, but don't give me the doom and gloom BS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 This issue has nothing to do with good christian values, but rather taking from americans and giving it to the undeserving. Christian values is all about the "undeserving" mate. Issue one, it's my money. The govt has no right to strip it from me and give it to someone else. If I want to engage in charity I will. I don't need the govt doing it for me. Again you are acting as if the government isn't a representation of collective will, i.e. even the collective Christian will. Its not that the "government takes your money", but "I request that my tax dollars be spent in a certain way." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 That's really not the point. Why is it ok for the govt to punish achievement?? And again here is where you simply get it wrong, its not about punishing achievement its about paying an equal share. By your reckoning the fact that the middle class pays 30+% of their income in taxes and folks like Warren Buffet pay 17% means that you are punishing under achievement. That's the whole point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 Give me a God dammned break everybody. I'm so sick and tired of Obamamaniacs and mcaniacs and all the other stupid childish morons in this country! It ain't ****ing black and white. " oh they forget this, they lie about that" you all lie, or have no idea what you're talking about. you all do the stupid mischaracterizations game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan133 Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 And again here is where you simply get it wrong, its not about punishing achievement its about paying an equal share. By your reckoning the fact that the middle class pays 30+% of their income in taxes and folks like Warren Buffet pay 17% means that you are punishing under achievement. That's the whole point. how about we all pay no income tax like the founders intended? how about we stop thinking the government has to do everything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan133 Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chachie Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 "Spread the wealth around" is not part of the definition of "conservative." If you have money, you want to conserve it. If you don't, you want to liberate it. Liberals who get money become conservatives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 how about we all pay no income tax like the founders intended? how about we stop thinking the government has to do everything? Great! Now, what about those poor people in Afghanistan and Iraq? You know...the troops. And even if that were to happen do you really think that the 8% of people in this country who control 3/4's of the wealth are suddenly going to stop building their businesses and start turning to help those in need by creating social programs that will be big enough and broad enough to meet the pressing needs of our nation, or do you think they are going to reinvest that money, ship more jobs over seas and get richer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoot Point Really Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 "Spreading the Wealth" is not the job of Government. It's the job of individuals who earn money to "spread their own wealth" if they choose to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 Fixed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 "Spreading the Wealth" is not the job of Government. It's the job of individuals who earn money to "spread their own wealth" if they choose to. And therein lies the problem, because they simply don't choose to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoot Point Really Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 And therein lies the problem, because they simply don't choose to. That's right... Let's take away their money AND their freedom! Brilliant! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexey Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 I am still having a hard time seing how moving the wealth up is okay but spreading it around is not. Will anybody deny that during the last 8 years we have been implementing policies that move the wealth up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan133 Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 Fixed it. I get the feeling you think you're offending me with this. I happen to agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brandymac27 Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 Give me a God dammned break everybody. I'm so sick and tired of Obamamaniacs and mcaniacs and all the other stupid childish morons in this country! It ain't ****ing black and white. " oh they forget this, they lie about that" you all lie, or have no idea what you're talking about. you all do the stupid mischaracterizations game.how about this. straight up facts: budget deficit: over 10 trillion bucks (that doesn't scare you?) we owe: over 3 trillion to the chinese alone... (idk that scares me) most of our social programs are BANKRUPT and we're talking about even MORE OF THEM! WE CAN'T AFFORD TO DO A GODDAMNED THING BOTH OF THE CANDIDATES ARE PROPOSING!!! AND NO ONE CARES!!!! you dismiss it as irrelevant or unimportant. I weep for my country, the one I grew up loving. the one I still love and hope can make it through. Obama, change? phhh lol. McCain, change? you've got to be kidding me. they're both full of absolute ****. how about this, you're all wrong and this country is ****ed no matter what because people are too damned stupid to see it. Jesus Christ... to every inhabitant of our fair and awsome land: you are all wrong. you are all stupid. we are all ****ed. Gee. Thanks! Way to stay positive there buddy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 That's right... Let's take away their money AND their freedom! Brilliant! So, let people in need go without....am I hearing you correctly? Basically it sounds like you want to take the "screw them" approach. I guess that's the Compassionate Conservatism we hear about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 I get the feeling you think you're offending me with this. I happen to agree. I must say at least you're consistent, I mean you don't want to help millionaires and you don't want to help the poor, very commendable.:doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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