NavyDave Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 There are no "Rights that are reserved for US citizens." (Actually, now that I think of it, there may be one. The right to vote. That one might specify "citizen", I haven't checked.) Funny that you mention that. Remember how shocked a lot of liberals and the media were when the Iraqis given the opportunity to vote freely braved sniper fire, suicide bombers threats of death to vote and then proudly display the ink on their thumb/finger? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ross3909 Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 And you didn't mention all of the innocent people of IRAQ, who last time I checked, didn't attack us, that have died as well.If these enemies were caught on the battlefield trying to kill our soldier, then have a quick trial and do away with them. Why all of the 7 years of holding them with no trial?? Especially if they were caught "red handed" trying to kill our military?? It just goes to show that if you gonna start a war, make sure you pick the actual enemy (Hello OSAMA BIN LADEN). You reap what you sew. We overthrew a dictator that had killed hundreds of thousands of his own people and gave the country back to the people. But if you like your own version of history, you will have many liberal friends to agree with you. If they go to a civil court they will be set free, because we don't have evidence that would pass in a presumed innocent court trial system. They were caught on the field of battle trying to kill our guys or building bombs trying to kill our guys. We do release people from Gitmo, a couple of years ago we had just under 700 and now we have around 250 detainees left so they dont just sit there if they dont belong there. If you dont think that we have actual enemies who are willing to blow up their own children to make a point, you havent been paying attention these last 8 years and I am wasting my time. If you really think America deserves this, please leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulane Skins Fan Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 Funny that you mention that. Remember how shocked a lot of liberals and the media were when the Iraqis given the opportunity to vote freely braved sniper fire, suicide bombers threats of death to vote and then proudly display the ink on their thumb/finger? I don't recall any poll on "liberals" being shocked by that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulane Skins Fan Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 We overthrew a dictator that had killed hundreds of thousands of his own people and gave the country back to the people. But if you like your own version of history, you will have many liberal friends to agree with you. If they go to a civil court they will be set free, because we don't have evidence that would pass in a presumed innocent court trial system. They were caught on the field of battle trying to kill our guys or building bombs trying to kill our guys. We do release people from Gitmo, a couple of years ago we had just under 700 and now we have around 250 detainees left so they dont just sit there if they dont belong there. If you dont think that we have actual enemies who are willing to blow up their own children to make a point, you havent been paying attention these last 8 years and I am wasting my time. If you really think America deserves this, please leave. Ross, you need to read my long post. This doesn't even grant them the right to a jury trial. And I find your lack of faith in the criminal justice system distressing to say the least. Of the three branches of government, I'd say the judiciary is easily the most well-equipped, and efficient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyDave Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 Except that it was a decision made by a Conservative Supreme Court. This decision was not a liberal decision. I know you like to castigate anything you disapprove of as liberal, but given the disposition of the U.S. Supreme Court and the actions of the Conservative movement over the past 8 years, it is would be wiser to think about what conservatism actually looks like today in practice versus just throwing stones.If you disagree with this decision you have no one to blame for it but Bush and the conservatives. Dude even you aren't that ignorant. We all know that its 5 to 4 liberals to conservatives. The liberal chick former ACLU operative is ready to retire and will do so next year if Obama is elected. There are two liberals judges hanging on praying that their replacements will come from an Obama admin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulane Skins Fan Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 Dude even you aren't that ignorant. We all know that its 5 to 4 liberals to conservatives.The liberal chick former ACLU operative is ready to retire and will do so next year if Obama is elected. There are two liberals judges hanging on praying that their replacements will come from an Obama admin. There are 5 "conservatives" and 4 "liberals" on the SC right now. And while the "liberals" are mostly moderate (at least two of them), the "conservatives" are way far right wingers, except Kennedy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccsl2 Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 We overthrew a dictator that had killed hundreds of thousands of his own people and gave the country back to the people. But if you like your own version of history, you will have many liberal friends to agree with you. If they go to a civil court they will be set free, because we don't have evidence that would pass in a presumed innocent court trial system. They were caught on the field of battle trying to kill our guys or building bombs trying to kill our guys. We do release people from Gitmo, a couple of years ago we had just under 700 and now we have around 250 detainees left so they dont just sit there if they dont belong there. If you dont think that we have actual enemies who are willing to blow up their own children to make a point, you havent been paying attention these last 8 years and I am wasting my time. If you really think America deserves this, please leave. The US didn't mind that dictator killing his own people when we put him in charge to fit our interests. And our country's history has show we can't even treat our own people right, so how all of sudden did we get a conscience about how people are treated in other countries? You say "please leave" like I had a damn choice to come over here. The beauty of this country is that I can disagree all I want with how this country acts, and I don't have to leave. I love my country, but I don't love EVERYTHING about my country. EVERYTHING my country has done is not RIGHT. I am more concerned with what is going on in the US than outside. This "war" in Iraq was nothing more than a way for Bush and his cronies to get paid and all us citizens have gotten out of it is a screwed up economy. I know we have enemies that don't like us, but I am not afraid if some of them get, OH MY GOODNESS, a damn trial. That doesn't scare me at all. What scares me is that we will go even further and just round up innocent people and lock them away because they look like a terrorist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyDave Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 Always wondered this, Sarge where/what is CTU?And one more thing, you have as much if not more passion for politics than probably anyone on this board. But do you honestly think that liberals are terrorist sympathizers? And I mean terrorists (dedicating you life to killing Americans, wiping out Israel etc.) not muslims. I really do. Plenty of video footage from marches and parades here in the US from NYC, Miami and the people republic of California of liberals,socialist and other anarchists rooting for us to fail and be soundly defeated. There are people here in the US who don't like us being the best, and the lone Super power. Does the media outside of Fox News spend time showing the US in a positive light? I'm not just talking about the war. We have NINETY FIVE percent EMPLOYMENT with 12 to 20 million ilegals doing 15 to 20 percent of work in jobs that Americans don't want to do. Does that get mentioned? No but the media do try to make the 5% look like its larger than it is. The media on the major channels have to have a gun pointed to their head to report positive news on the war because they can't afford to give President Bush any good press. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ross3909 Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 It just goes to show that if you gonna start a war, make sure you pick the actual enemy (Hello OSAMA BIN LADEN). You reap what you sew. Your standard liberal thinks like this. If we just go after Bin Ladin and get him, that should do it. They don't believe that Bin Ladin is just one of many foes in this war. Matter of fact they dont believe this is a war. They have such disdain for America that they believe that America must have done something to deserve these attacks. And if only we could just be nicer and talk to the Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's of the world we could convince them to like us. They thought that back in the 1930s with Hitler also. I believe that is why this ruling passed and it is also why this country is in real trouble. Half of the people here do not understand the enemy that we face. And if that half gets in power, we will be turning our back on a large enemy that wants only to kill us and our allies. In the nuclear age that we live in today, that is a very scary thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyDave Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 The US didn't mind that dictator killing his own people when we put him in charge to fit our interests. And our country's history has show we can't even treat our own people right, so how all of sudden did we get a conscience about how people are treated in other countries?Duh our National Interests should always come first. What country has a long history of treating their people right? Probably around the time TV brought it to our homes and we had the backingof the people,the might and will to make a difference. You say "please leave" like I had a damn choice to come over here. But you have the right to leave. The beauty of this country is that I can disagree all I want with how this country acts, and I don't have to leave. I love my country, but I don't love EVERYTHING about my country. EVERYTHING my country has done is not RIGHT. Nobody and no country is perfect but we are the best I am more concerned with what is going on in the US than outside. This "war" in Iraq was nothing more than a way for Bush and his cronies to get paid and all us citizens have gotten out of it is a screwed up economy. Yeah liberals are about being isolationists at the wrong times and having their heads in the sand when it comes to world events. Yawn will this stupid inaccurate liberal talking point from the DailyKOS mediamatter and moveon.org ever die? I know we have enemies that don't like us, but I am not afraid if some of them get, OH MY GOODNESS, a damn trial. That doesn't scare me at all. What scares me is that we will go even further and just round up innocent people and lock them away because they look like a terrorist. Liberals look at terrorist acts and war like its a criminal act and step into military tribunals when they shouldn't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACW Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 Ross, rights aren't "granted", they're inherent in humans (natural rights). It's just that the Constitution says gov't may not violate these rights; other countries DO violate these rights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyConway Posted June 13, 2008 Author Share Posted June 13, 2008 I really do. Plenty of video footage from marches and parades here in the US from NYC, Miami and the people republic of California of liberals,socialist and other anarchists rooting for us to fail and be soundly defeated. There are people here in the US who don't like us being the best, and the lone Super power. Does the media outside of Fox News spend time showing the US in a positive light? I'm not just talking about the war. The media on the major channels have to have a gun pointed to their head to report positive news on the war because they can't afford to give President Bush any good press. The people you described aren't liberals. They're extremists and can be found on both sides of the spectrum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ross3909 Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 The US didn't mind that dictator killing his own people when we put him in charge to fit our interests. And our country's history has show we can't even treat our own people right, so how all of sudden did we get a conscience about how people are treated in other countries?You say "please leave" like I had a damn choice to come over here. The beauty of this country is that I can disagree all I want with how this country acts, and I don't have to leave. I love my country, but I don't love EVERYTHING about my country. EVERYTHING my country has done is not RIGHT. I am more concerned with what is going on in the US than outside. This "war" in Iraq was nothing more than a way for Bush and his cronies to get paid and all us citizens have gotten out of it is a screwed up economy. I know we have enemies that don't like us, but I am not afraid if some of them get, OH MY GOODNESS, a damn trial. That doesn't scare me at all. What scares me is that we will go even further and just round up innocent people and lock them away because they look like a terrorist. We do care because we are Americans, I say that but I dont know if you understand it. Just look at our history of selflessly helping other nations. Iraq was a special situation, being a country that is funding and harboring terrorists. And being rich in natural rescorces like it was, it had an endless flow of cash to support this threat against the US. America tried to go through the UN but after the 17 resolution we finally had to stop Iraq. Our intelligence proved that Iraq had WMD (because he already used it on his own people) and was trying to build a nuclear program. For a country that is a sworn enemy of our country and allies. We could not allow that to happen. If these terrorists are allowed to lawer up and go to trial, they will walk. Just like if they rounded up the 19 terrorists before they flew the planes into our buildings on September 11, 2001. If they were tried in August 01, they would have been set free under our court system also. But go ahead and applaud this decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulane Skins Fan Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 If these terrorists are allowed to lawer up and go to trial, they will walk. Just like if they rounded up the 19 terrorists before they flew the planes into our buildings on September 11, 2001. If they were tried in August 01, they would have been set free under our court system also. But go ahead and applaud this decision. a) what is the basis for saying this? they weren't granted the right to trial. Do you know what habeas corpus is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccsl2 Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 Your standard liberal thinks like this. If we just go after Bin Ladin and get him, that should do it. They don't believe that Bin Ladin is just one of many foes in this war. Matter of fact they dont believe this is a war. They have such disdain for America that they believe that America must have done something to deserve these attacks. And if only we could just be nicer and talk to the Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's of the world we could convince them to like us. They thought that back in the 1930s with Hitler also. I believe that is why this ruling passed and it is also why this country is in real trouble. Half of the people here do not understand the enemy that we face. And if that half gets in power, we will be turning our back on a large enemy that wants only to kill us and our allies. In the nuclear age that we live in today, that is a very scary thought. Liberal or Conservative, I got a right to disagree with my country just like you have the same right to disagree with the USSC decision. It is what it is. I know capturing Bin laden won't end the war on terror, but damn if you have someone who said "I bombed the US", you would think that we would have used the resources to go after him like we went after Sadaam. But that's just "liberal" talk. Hell I am not even patriotic because I disagree with my country. Or I don't supprot the troops because I don't support the war. MAN PLEASE spare me with this crap. Its being going on for 5 years now and it is LAME. However you want to put it, it still doesn't change the facts. All of this talk about talking to foreign dictators will lead us into trouble is all speculation. But I tell you one thing, we have seen what not talking to them and just bombing them does. And it aint pretty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccsl2 Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 We do care because we are Americans, I say that but I dont know if you understand it. Just look at our history of selflessly helping other nations. Iraq was a special situation, being a country that is funding and harboring terrorists. And being rich in natural rescorces like it was, it had an endless flow of cash to support this threat against the US. America tried to go through the UN but after the 17 resolution we finally had to stop Iraq. Our intelligence proved that Iraq had WMD (because he already used it on his own people) and was trying to build a nuclear program. For a country that is a sworn enemy of our country and allies. We could not allow that to happen. If these terrorists are allowed to lawer up and go to trial, they will walk. Just like if they rounded up the 19 terrorists before they flew the planes into our buildings on September 11, 2001. If they were tried in August 01, they would have been set free under our court system also. But go ahead and applaud this decision. :applause: :applause: :applause: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccsl2 Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 We do care because we are Americans, I say that but I dont know if you understand it. Just look at our history of selflessly helping other nations. Iraq was a special situation, being a country that is funding and harboring terrorists. And being rich in natural rescorces like it was, it had an endless flow of cash to support this threat against the US. America tried to go through the UN but after the 17 resolution we finally had to stop Iraq. Our intelligence proved that Iraq had WMD (because he already used it on his own people) and was trying to build a nuclear program. For a country that is a sworn enemy of our country and allies. We could not allow that to happen. If these terrorists are allowed to lawer up and go to trial, they will walk. Just like if they rounded up the 19 terrorists before they flew the planes into our buildings on September 11, 2001. If they were tried in August 01, they would have been set free under our court system also. But go ahead and applaud this decision. Then just BOMB GITMO and do away with them all, innocent or guilty, just kill them all and we will all be safer. YEAH RIGHT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccsl2 Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 We r just gonna have to agree to disagree NavyDave. The world is coming to an end because some terrorist will be able to get a lawyer in your eyes, just not in my eyes. Not gonna live in fear over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooper Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 You know, it's funny. I always thought conservatives were supposed to be the defenders of the constitution. For a long time now, it seems anything but. Strange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulane Skins Fan Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 You know, it's funny. I always thought conservatives were supposed to be the defenders of the constitution. For a long time now, it seems anything but. Strange. Where did you get that idea? Seriously, that's not the definition in my mind at all. That's actually more of a definition of liberals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ross3909 Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 a) what is the basis for saying this? they weren't granted the right to trial. Do you know what habeas corpus is? Can they not petition the court now to challenge their imprisonment? The head of Al Qaida stated "We will use America's laws against them" We have caught terrorists in Iraq who have commented about how you can "Talk to my lawer when we get to New York". The courts will be flooded with requests from Gitmo for challenges and the buden of proof will be on the Govt to keep the detainees from walking. Please, though tell me where I am wrong. I would sleep much better at night if I were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooper Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 Where did you get that idea? Seriously, that's not the definition in my mind at all. That's actually more of a definition of liberals. Only because you've been told that. Just kidding. Seriously, just look at this decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyConway Posted June 13, 2008 Author Share Posted June 13, 2008 Can they not petition the court now to challenge their imprisonment? The head of Al Qaida stated "We will use America's laws against them" We have caught terrorists in Iraq who have commented about how you can "Talk to my lawer when we get to New York". The courts will be flooded with requests from Gitmo for challenges and the buden of proof will be on the Govt to keep the detainees from walking. Please, though tell me where I am wrong. I would sleep much better at night if I were. I hate to be that guy but you left the Y out of LAWYER, again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ross3909 Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 Then just BOMB GITMO and do away with them all, innocent or guilty, just kill them all and we will all be safer. YEAH RIGHT. you said it, not me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ross3909 Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 I hate to be that guy but you left the Y out of LAWYER, again. you are right, that changes everything in this discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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