Larry Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 Oh and he tried to have the precident of the 50 year old Geneva Convention changed to enable this third catagory of detainees. Actually, I read, recently, that one of his "legal advisers" has written him a "legal opinion" that the Geneva conventions don't apply in times of war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 Ironic, considering that the historical traits of those two sides is the exact opposite.Then again, Republicans aren't Republicans and Democrats aren't Democrats these days. Well in all honesty, that's what I was going for Although, it is odd all fully and completely so many Republicans and conservatives "buy in" or bought in. Conservatism used to be all about wanting minimum government because of a belief that gov't screws up everything it lays its hands on. That notion is so out the window it isn't funny. Modern Conservatism seems to want government's hand IN everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 Well in all honesty, that's what I was going for Although, it is odd all fully and completely so many Republicans and conservatives "buy in" or bought in. Conservatism used to be all about wanting minimum government because of a belief that gov't screws up everything it lays its hands on. That notion is so out the window it isn't funny. Modern Conservatism seems to want government's hand IN everything. IMO, they believe that the government is infallible, and want the government in charge of everything, when there's a Republican President. See: Sarge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sacase Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 This is a sad day. Once again liberals have put our country at more risk. These people will go free for the simple fact that we will not use intelligence, methods and sources in their trials. The next time you hear about a former Gitmo detainee blowing up US troops or an embassy, remember this day and I hope you feel guilty, you are just as responsible for their deaths as the bomber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulane Skins Fan Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 This is a sad day. Once again liberals have put our country at more risk. These people will go free for the simple fact that we will not use intelligence, methods and sources in their trials.The next time you hear about a former Gitmo detainee blowing up US troops or an embassy, remember this day and I hope you feel guilty, you are just as responsible for their deaths as the bomber. lame. as mentioned above, this just means that people in gitmo have the right to an attorney and to have a trial in a federal court. they might actually be found GUILTY.... holy crap, that blew your mind, huh. It usually does blow the minds of people who just want to blame "liberals" for the work of a conversvative Supreme Court, and then want to blame them for the future deaths caused by terrorists. Intelligent post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 This is a sad day. Once again liberals have put our country at more risk. These people will go free for the simple fact that we will not use intelligence, methods and sources in their trials.The next time you hear about a former Gitmo detainee blowing up US troops or an embassy, remember this day and I hope you feel guilty, you are just as responsible for their deaths as the bomber. 2 things. 1) the Supreme Court is a Conservative Court today. So, if something happens and you want to blame it on a court decision you have to blame the Conservatives who voted in favor of the gitmo prisoners. 2) There are ways to have a closed trial and if there is proof these men and women will not be released. As JMS pointed out, Abu had a 98% release rate and many of those 98% that were released were held for multiple years without charge or evidence. They simply happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GibbsFactor Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 I applaud the Supreme Court for their actions. Liberty triumphed today! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 I applaud the Supreme Court for their actions. Liberty triumphed today! I thought he was taking a month off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 Worst Supreme Court decision EVER I guess now we'll just have to shoot these pieces of **** on the battlefield and get intel someplace else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sacase Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 2 things. 1) the Supreme Court is a Conservative Court today. So, if something happens and you want to blame it on a court decision you have to blame the Conservatives who voted in favor of the gitmo prisoners. 2) There are ways to have a closed trial and if there is proof these men and women will not be released. As JMS pointed out, Abu had a 98% release rate and many of those 98% that were released were held for multiple years without charge or evidence. They simply happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. The jurors still have to hear the information and so does the accused. Intelligence sources and methods will be protected over prosecuting these terrorist. Abu and Gitmo are two completly different entities. Most of the people in Gitmo were picked up after combat with US forces. Abu and Gitmo have about as much in common as Disneyland and Supermax. The sad part is they are using our system against us and laughing all the way to freedom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 Worst Supreme Court decision EVERI guess now we'll just have to shoot these pieces of **** on the battlefield and get intel someplace else What intel are we getting from someone we picked up in a cave in Afghanistan 7 years ago? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 You know...to liberals, conservatives are the enemy within. For the record, I don't view conservatives as the enemy. I think they are often pig-headidly wrong. But not an enemy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sacase Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 What intel are we getting from someone we picked up in a cave in Afghanistan 7 years ago? a lot more than you might think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 I applaud the Supreme Court for their actions. Liberty triumphed today! No, the enemies of the country and terrorist triumphed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GibbsFactor Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 No, the enemies of the country and terrorist triumphed So you would rather have temporary safety at the expense of liberty? I find this to be a very dangerous slope we are on with regards to our rights. I for one will not allow my Government to rule by fear over the very citizens that are governed. Haven't we shown our might Sarge? We've toppled two regimes, both less then 6 months, something the mighty Soviets could never do. We have completely destroyed towns and settlements, entire ways of life. What more do you want? What is just in your eyes? Must we forsaken the very values we Americans hold true for revenge? I believe you are bigger then that, I believe WE are bigger then that. Emulation is the path to success, not water pouring out of a bucket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 So you would rather have temporary safety at the expense of liberty? I find this to be a very dangerous slope we are on with regards to our rights. I for one will not allow my Government to rule by fear over the very citizens that are governed. Haven't we shown our might Sarge? We've toppled two regimes, both less then 6 months, something the mighty Soviets could never do. We have completely destroyed towns and settlements, entire ways of life. What more do you want? What is just in your eyes? Must we forsaken the very values we Americans hold true for revenge? I believe you are bigger then that, I believe WE are bigger then that. Emulation is the path to success, not water pouring out of a bucket. Abe Lincoln would disagree with you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duckus Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 Now the conservative Supreme Court is a liberal enemy spreading liberalism? Haha. Classic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulane Skins Fan Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 Abe Lincoln would disagree with you That's like saying we should put everyone of Iraqi descent into internment camps because we did with Japanese people in WWII. :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shk75 Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 Guantanamo is such a mess anyways it truly displays why America is viewed down upon around the world. It is this power trip that the country is on and the clear hypocrisy of this democracy. I mean here we are putting sanctions on a country becuase we do not agree with its totalitarian regime ( and we are right on this one the Cuban government is corrupt and evil ) yet we erect a prison in which the prisoners have no rights at all in that exact same country. Really people... I mean really...ugggh what a sham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 Now the conservative Supreme Court is a liberal enemy spreading liberalism? Haha. Classic Doesn't look too conservative to me right now That's like saying we should put everyone of Iraqi descent into internment camps because we did with Japanese people in WWII. :doh: Did I ever mention that? Nope. I said Abe Lincoln would disagree, mainly because he took rights away from AMERICAN CITIZENS during a time of war, saying that there were some things that just needed to be done during war. Lincoln got it. The Supreme Court doesn't because they just gave American rights to non American TERRORISTS Like I said, all we can do now is shoot them in the head on the battlefield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 Most of the people in Gitmo were picked up after combat with US forces. What intel are we getting from someone we picked up in a cave in Afghanistan 7 years ago? a lot more than you might think. Wow. And here I thought that Bush was threatening to shoot anybody who revealed any information about what was going on , down there. Please. Let us in to where you're getting your insider knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulane Skins Fan Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 Doesn't look too conservative to me right now Is the definition of conservative "agreeing with Sarge" now? Just teasing you. Did I ever mention that? Nope. I said Abe Lincoln would disagree, mainly because he took rights away from AMERICAN CITIZENS during a time of war, saying that there were some things that just needed to be done during war.Lincoln got it. The Supreme Court doesn't because they just gave American rights to non American TERRORISTS Like I said, all we can do now is shoot them in the head on the battlefield No, I mentioned it by analogy to your claim that Lincoln suspended habeas corpus and so we should do what Lincold did now. Lincoln's decision to do so, like the decision finding the Japanese internment camps to be constitutional, are two of the most controversial pieces of history in this country. So, you can't really reference Lincoln's suspending as "getting it right," when a lot of people will say it was the wrong decision and the only black eye on his legacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanboyOf91 Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 Congratz to the Supreme Court for finally clearing this up. America won today. :applause: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zuck Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 Bumping the thread, which I think is slightly more important than, say, jokes about John McCain's age. (Not that I expect the discussion to be any more rational, or polite, than the previous 200 times.) There's nothing funny about being 130. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GibbsFactor Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 Doesn't look too conservative to me right nowDid I ever mention that? Nope. I said Abe Lincoln would disagree, mainly because he took rights away from AMERICAN CITIZENS during a time of war, saying that there were some things that just needed to be done during war. Lincoln got it. The Supreme Court doesn't because they just gave American rights to non American TERRORISTS Like I said, all we can do now is shoot them in the head on the battlefield And Abe was trashed just as Bush is now, which is why I often say Bush has the potential to be remembered as a great President. Couple of differences from Bush and Abe being that it was a Civil War and the Government had a much smaller fear factor going for it. Today, ever since the Vietnam/Nixon debacle, American belief in it's government is at an all time low. Perhaps that is unwarranted, perhaps it is not. All I know is that the US Government is feared by the very people that controls it. We are fighting a battle of attrition against a different kind of people, people who's only chance at rattling the big dog's chain is via the most extreme of measures. For us to drop to their level shows that we aren't nearly as civil as we claim to be. For us to be the good doer's in this war, we must act good. I understand that many that may be released may be found again on the battle field. I also understand that we may not have a place to hold these people in the future, so first shot kills will go up dramatically. But I will not sacrifice freedoms for the sake of safety. I for one do not think these extremist pose a threat any where equal to that of the Soviets, Nazi's, Japanese or the Confederates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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