NFL Network: Top 10 Recieving Corps, 1960's Redskins #5- Jerry Smith was gay??

[ljs]

Jerry Smith still holds the team record for career receptions for a tight end. Cooley broke his single-season record for receptions this past season.

Meantime, I missed the Mitchell-Taylor-Smith part of the special. What did they say about those GREAT Redskins?

It was about the top receiving corps. Our 80's group, Monk, Clark, Sanders were at #8. Our 60's group, Mitchell-Taylor-Smith, were listed at #2. Hard to recount the exact things they said, but I'm sure the show will be on again.

[stwasm]

It was about the top receiving corps. Our 80's group, Monk, Clark, Sanders were at #8. Our 60's group, Mitchell-Taylor-Smith, were listed at #2. Hard to recount the exact things they said, but I'm sure the show will be on again.

Man, that stinks. Thanks to the wonders of DVR, I was able to get what they were saying about The Posse. Below are comments from Frank Herzog, Steve Czaban and Dan Daly.

"Three perfectly complimentary receivers. You had to pick your poison."

"Anybody could have that great day, depending on how the defense was played."

"Art Monk was such a danger that if you were a defense, you had to double Monk. And that left Sanders and Clark one-on-one. All of the sudden, you were like, 'Uh-oh. We gotta take care of Sanders and Clark.' And there goes Monk!"

"What's really amazing is that when you have three receivers like that, you had to keep them all relatively happy. The Redskins did a pretty good job of that."

"Art Monk dropping a pass was like something you documented. What? Three passes, maybe? I don't remember. He was an absolute clutch player."

"Gary Clark burned out treadmills at Redskins Park. When he decided to play football, his dad said, 'Okay, well you're going to have to be able to run.' So he would put him out on a country road in Harrisonburg, Virginia, and follow him in a car. And if he slowed down, he'd get run over."

"Monk was like the muscle car that was great at key possessions. Clark was sorta like the small little sports car that could go out in nooks and crannies, and was a deep threat as well. But Sanders was just pure speed. He would run by you as he did the Broncos in that Super Bowl."

I had to leave before Mitchell, Taylor and Smith were featured. So, I was just curious.

[ljs]

If I catch it again, I'll make notes. I just have a crappy memory on the specifics. ( could be the pain meds I'm on??)

[angel2]

I believe you are referring to the aforementioned Dave Kopay, who played with the Skins under Vince Lombardi. Kopay says he and Jerry Smith had a brief relationship.

Dave Kopay doesn't ring a bell. The player I'm thinking of played on a George Allen team as did Jerry Smith. I remember reading somewhere that this RB admitted he was gay. The article mentioned his height and I thought he was very tall for a RB. Kopay is not whom I am thinking of.

Let me search on NFL.com in their draft archieves, maybe I can fing his name.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

What I am saying is that people have a right to live how they want, just as long as they aren't infringing upon anyone else's rights. Like you said about hitting on people and that sort of thing.

Just remember that there is no right to not feel uncomfortable.

[ljs]

Just remember that there is no right to not feel uncomfortable.

the double negative has me confused...please explain.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

the double negative has me confused...please explain.

If someone makes you feel uncomfortable, they aren't infringing on your rights...

[angel2]

I believe you are referring to the aforementioned Dave Kopay, who played with the Skins under Vince Lombardi. Kopay says he and Jerry Smith had a brief relationship.

Trying to remember the gay players name was annoying as a toothacne. However, I have prevail with the player I am thinking of; his name is Ray McDonald, FB, Idaho. He was 6'4" and weighed 248 lbs. He played for the Redskins only two seasons.

These are his two year stats:

CAR52

YDS223

AVG4.3

TDS4

He played with the Redskins from 1967 to 1968. In his NFL Bio it mentioned that he is deceased.

During my archieval research, it's amazing how George Allen traded most of our early round picks away for established players. His tactics wouldn't be successful today.

[ljs]

If someone makes you feel uncomfortable, they aren't infringing on your rights...

ok, gotcha...and agreed.

[ljs]

Trying to remember the gay players name was annoying as a toothacne. However, I have prevail with the player I am thinking of; his name is Ray McDonald, FB, Idaho. He was 6'4" and weighed 248 lbs. He played for the Redskins only two seasons.

These are his two year stats:

CAR52

YDS223

AVG4.3

TDS4

He played with the Redskins from 1967 to 1968. In his NFL Bio it mentioned that he is deceased.

During my archieval research, it's amazing how George Allen traded most of our early round picks away for established players. His tactics wouldn't be successful today.

If you find an article or something that speaks of McDonald coming out, you should post a link. I'm curious to see what it says.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

I'm going to come out big time, I'm lesbian. I'm also 56. I'm a mother and grandmother. I'm darn good at my profession.

I read "The David Kopay Story" in paperback years ago. I was surprised and pleased at the same time. Same when I heard about Jerry Smith. Actually, people couldn't believe it because he was so good looking. All my friends who were girls had crushes on him. They were disappointed when it came out about him.

We really ARE everywhere, even here. And not only that, being gay, lesbian bisexual, or heterosexual etc. are just one of our characteristics, and not the only identifier.

When we are at work, be it on the playing field or in the battlefield, or the office, or the store, or the construction site, or anywhere else work is being conducted, we are there to do our jobs and it's not about our sexuality and affectational orientation, but how well we perform our work.

My parents got season tickets starting in the 1963 season and held them until my mother died in 1997. I've seen many great players, and not once did I wonder at their sexual orientation. Whether they played their position well and contributed to the team was the important factor.

I'm happy to see the discussion on Jerry here and homosexuality in general. The tone has been respectful. I can only imagine if this "conversation" was taking place in the 1980s or 1970s, how the tone would be. So I have hope for the future.

Kudos to you for wanting to share this on this thread ...

[LadySkinsFan]

What I am saying is that people have a right to live how they want, just as long as they aren't infringing upon anyone else's rights. Like you said about hitting on people and that sort of thing.

All one has to do is say "no thanks". That's what I say when men hit on me. Men, in particular, make too much of getting hit on by other men. They should grow up and just say "no thanks". That would be the end of it.

Believe me, we are not out trying to turn straight people gay or lesbian. That's just a myth. Although one of my GFs' brothers said that he had been with a lot of straight men, so maybe some straight men aren't so straight!

[LadySkinsFan]

If someone makes you feel uncomfortable, they aren't infringing on your rights...

Perfectly said, Califan007. Thanks!

To get back on topic, Jerry Smith was a joy to watch on the field.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Perfectly said, Califan007. Thanks!

To get back on topic, Jerry Smith was a joy to watch on the field.

Count me among those older fans who had no stinkin' clue who Jerry Smith was lol :doh:...I became a Skins fan when I was around 9 years old, and what I remembered about the Skins at that age was Charlie Taylor (because it was fun watching all the highlight-type catches), Chris Hanburger (because I kept thinking his name was "hamburger" lol), the QB fued between Sonny and Billy, and the Skins making the Super Bowl...and losing.

It wasn't until I became an adult that I started getting more into the history of the franchise and its players. I had heard of Sammy Baugh long before I ever knew he used to play for the Skins. It was even longer still before I knew how versatile he was. But I was in NO way just a "casual fan".

[angel2]

If you find an article or something that speaks of McDonald coming out, you should post a link. I'm curious to see what it says.

I previouly had this topic aired out by an older brother who is a Eagles fan. He said that McDonald was a known predator in the Skins' locker room. I don't have a link for you, just my brother's recollection from his days working for a sports network as a reporter.

He also mentioned Roy Simmons who played for the Giants and the Redskins during the 1980ties. Simmons wrote a book about being gay and is one of three players to admit his gay lifestyle as a NFL player. Simmons said that most NFL teams have at least two or three gay players on their rosters'.

[LadySkinsFan]

Predatory behavior in the workplace is just wrong, regardless of gender or sexual orientation. Mature adults don't act that way.

I'd guess most are closeted as is most of society. I've been out at work and not out at work. Now, as a consultant, I just get in and do my job and get out. It's great because there are no office politics etc. If I don't like the workplace, I don't go back, I get conveniently busy.

Jerry Smity was speedy, streaky and always managed to come up with the ball.

[angel2]

If you find an article or something that speaks of McDonald coming out, you should post a link. I'm curious to see what it says.

Just found a link to a bio on wikipedia.com. When I did a search on Ray McDonald, I was surprise that he was so gifted, and, indeed warranted a 13th overall pick by Edward Bennett Williams. Be sure to read the footnotes, most interesting.

Here is the link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_McDonald_%28running_back%29

[Jimbo]

Just found a link to a bio on wikipedia.com. When I did a search on Ray McDonald, I was surprise that he was so gifted, and, indeed warranted a 13th overall pick by Edward Bennett Williams. Be sure to read the footnotes, most interesting.

Here is the link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_McDonald_%28running_back%29

OK, this one was a shocker to me. I remember my Dad calling Ray McDonald the "new hotshot running back" during his rookie season. I remember him never living up to expectations due to knee injuries but I never heard about him being gay until today. I very vaguely remember hearing about him passing away and I sure as heck had no clue he had AIDS. This has proven to be a very educational thread.

[angel2]

OK, this one was a shocker to me. I remember my Dad calling Ray McDonald the "new hotshot running back" during his rookie season. I remember him never living up to expectations due to knee injuries but I never heard about him being gay until today. I very vaguely remember hearing about him passing away and I sure as heck had no clue he had AIDS. This has proven to be a very educational thread.

The second footnote was a very tradgic article to read. Ray had so much talent and towards the end of his life, he had to tell his brother and sister-inlaw that he was gay just before he passed away.

[Redskins:Victory_or_Death]

I previouly had this topic aired out by an older brother who is a Eagles fan. He said that McDonald was a known predator in the Skins' locker room. I don't have a link for you, just my brother's recollection from his days working for a sports network as a reporter.

This is a rhetorical question and not directed at you (or your brother), but what in the hell does that even mean? Talk about ignorant and petty - whoever spread that rumor is a stupid jackass. That's the type of person who thinks you get AIDS by breathing the same air and looking at an HIV patient too long.

And, frankly, I don't believe the story for a second. In that day and age, unfortunately attitudes toward homosexuality were a far sight less accepting. Had McDonald been hitting on other players and being a "predator" (again - what does that mean? :doh: ) he would probably would have lost his job, have been subject to all sorts of rejection, along with whatever other harrasment, punishment, and abuse others saw fit to heap on him.

[Redskins:Victory_or_Death]

I'm going to come out big time, I'm lesbian. I'm also 56. I'm a mother and grandmother. I'm darn good at my profession.

I read "The David Kopay Story" in paperback years ago. I was surprised and pleased at the same time. Same when I heard about Jerry Smith. Actually, people couldn't believe it because he was so good looking. All my friends who were girls had crushes on him. They were disappointed when it came out about him.

We really ARE everywhere, even here. And not only that, being gay, lesbian bisexual, or heterosexual etc. are just one of our characteristics, and not the only identifier.

When we are at work, be it on the playing field or in the battlefield, or the office, or the store, or the construction site, or anywhere else work is being conducted, we are there to do our jobs and it's not about our sexuality and affectational orientation, but how well we perform our work.

My parents got season tickets starting in the 1963 season and held them until my mother died in 1997. I've seen many great players, and not once did I wonder at their sexual orientation. Whether they played their position well and contributed to the team was the important factor.

I'm happy to see the discussion on Jerry here and homosexuality in general. The tone has been respectful. I can only imagine if this "conversation" was taking place in the 1980s or 1970s, how the tone would be. So I have hope for the future.

:applause:

[ljs]

This is a rhetorical question and not directed at you (or your brother), but what in the hell does that even mean? Talk about ignorant and petty - whoever spread that rumor is a stupid jackass. That's the type of person who thinks you get AIDS by breathing the same air and looking at an HIV patient too long.

And, frankly, I don't believe the story for a second. In that day and age, unfortunately attitudes toward homosexuality were a far sight less accepting. Had McDonald been hitting on other players and being a "predator" (again - what does that mean? :doh: ) he would probably would have lost his job, have been subject to all sorts of rejection, along with whatever other harrasment, punishment, and abuse others saw fit to heap on him.

Well, you should believe it, it is true. He did lose his job, not long after being caught in public having sex with another man.

An exerpt from an Idahostatesman article,

"Ed McDonald now says he's convinced homophobia shortened Ray's career. "You've got this guy who's gay or perceived to be gay, and he's in your locker room, over in the corner. Do you pat him on the back or do you pat him on the butt? And then if you do that, what becomes of it? No one wanted him on the team."

For the whole story http://www.idahostatesman.com/eyepiece/story/250654.html

It has some specific details, such as McDonald being stabbed by a male lover, his 'confession' to his sister in law, Sonny Jurgensons attitude toward him and even rumors of his homosexuality before being drafted.

[RenegadeTK]

I'm going to come out big time, I'm lesbian. I'm also 56. I'm a mother and grandmother. I'm darn good at my profession.

I read "The David Kopay Story" in paperback years ago. I was surprised and pleased at the same time. Same when I heard about Jerry Smith. Actually, people couldn't believe it because he was so good looking. All my friends who were girls had crushes on him. They were disappointed when it came out about him.

We really ARE everywhere, even here. And not only that, being gay, lesbian bisexual, or heterosexual etc. are just one of our characteristics, and not the only identifier.

When we are at work, be it on the playing field or in the battlefield, or the office, or the store, or the construction site, or anywhere else work is being conducted, we are there to do our jobs and it's not about our sexuality and affectational orientation, but how well we perform our work.

My parents got season tickets starting in the 1963 season and held them until my mother died in 1997. I've seen many great players, and not once did I wonder at their sexual orientation. Whether they played their position well and contributed to the team was the important factor.

I'm happy to see the discussion on Jerry here and homosexuality in general. The tone has been respectful. I can only imagine if this "conversation" was taking place in the 1980s or 1970s, how the tone would be. So I have hope for the future.

i'm glad you feel comfortable enough to discuss your personal life on here. i know we have a couple rotten apples, but i like to think the majority of us on here are intelligent people. and little things like sexuality should make no difference.

[ljs]

I'll say the same thing to Ladyskinfan. Even over message boards, it can't be easy to lay it on the line. I'm glad we haven't had to go to blows with someone being a jerk on here.

wish I could have seen some of these old timers play. But at least I've watched a few superbowl wins. Something even younger fans can't say.

[Redskins:Victory_or_Death]

Well, you should believe it, it is true. He did lose his job, not long after being caught in public having sex with another man.

To clarify, I meant more that I don't believe stories that he was a "predator" - the rumor and that "term" makes it sound like he wore a tutu and frollicked about grabbing teammates butts at random or that he preyed on children. It's a pretty filthy term and homosexuals have being fighting such disgusting sterotypes like that for years.

Losing his job because he was gay, especially in that day and age, doesn't surprise me a bit.