Ken Kesey is the MAN

[One Shot]

Doing a paper on One Flew Over the Cuckoo's nest (movies awesome too), so naturally I'm reading a lot about the author, Ken Kesey. The guy knows the answers, my friends. Here's an interview done with him some time ago. And for anyone who doesn't know him, he was a big part of the hippie movement back in the 60s.

http://www.fargonebooks.com/kesey.html

Of course, because many here won't read something more than 2 paragraphs, I'll take some parts that will get your attention. Eh, posted more than 2 paragraphs, oh well. Discuss.

Fahey: I've always been curious whether you had a sense of being the role model, the leader...history has kind of pronounced you the Father of the Counterculture. I was wondering if you thought of yourself as that back then, or if that's been something generously awarded to you.

Kesey: Oh, no. I don't even think of myself as that now.

Fahey: But back, then. Back in those heady times of the Bus trip and Neal Cassady...did you have a sense?

Kesey: I really did have a sense that what we were doing was important, historically important, in a way that still hasn't been understood or recognized. [pause] The Sixties aren't over; they won't be over until the Fat Lady gets high.

Fahey: I'm reading a quote by youit was a little insert in USA Weekend back in July [1992]. Betsy Clayton has you quoted as saying, `the Haight is just a place; the Sixties was a spirit.' I've only been up to your place once, but to me it seemed like what the Sixties were all about. Do you try to keep that atmosphere alive, or is your place a pretty normal place most of the time and you just let loose once in a while?

Kesey: No, it's pretty much the same all of the time [soft chuckle]. It's nothing that you have to try to keep alive; it'll live on its own. I think you have to kill it. That kind of spirit doesn't die naturally; you have to lock it up in shackles and feed it lots of red meat and browbeat it into death. It doesn't die of its own accord.

Fahey: One last question: I saw the interview with you and Bob Costas, and he was asking why you did certain things that you've done throughout your life, and you said because you're an American; and that as Americans, we're searchers and pioneers. And I was wondering what frontiers are there left for Ken Kesey to explore?

Kesey: Uhhm...the frontiers that we broke into in the Sixties are still largely unexplored. When I was doing those experiments at the Vet's Hospital, they gave us an enormous array of drugs, and they gave us an enormous array of tests. They tested our motor skills, our memories, our ability to create, to imagine, they tested our urine and our blood--all the results of those tests still exist somewhere. For those to be valid experiments, we need to follow up on that--to see if our brains have deteriorated, to see if there's been any damage like they claimed.

When we first broke into that forbidden box in the other dimension, we knew that we had discovered something as surprising and powerful as the New World when Columbus came stumbling onto it. It is still largely unexplored and uncharted. People like Leary have done the best they can to chart it sort of underground, but the government and the powers do not want this world charted, because it threatens established powers. It always has.

People don't want other people to get high, because if you get high, you might see the falsity of the fabric of the society we live in. [pause]

We thought that by this time that there would be LSD given in classes in college. And you would study for it and prepare for it, you would have somebody there who help you through it; you would know what to sing, where to be, how to stand out among the trees. We were naive. We thought that we had come to a new place, a new, exciting, free place; and that it was going to be available to all America. And they shut it down.

[OrangeSkin]

I love Ken Kesey.

Have you ever read "High Priest" by Timothy Leary? Fascinating read if you are interested in '60s culture.

[One Shot]

I love Ken Kesey.

Have you ever read "High Priest" by Timothy Leary? Fascinating read if you are interested in '60s culture.

I read an excerpt from it a little while back, definitely a fascinating read. I'll have to check the whole thing out soon, thanks.

[headexplode]

Ken Kesey is one of my favorite authors. His spirit and personality are expressed brilliantly in his novels. His sense of humor ensures that even the most dramatic and horrific moments are tempered. Like Vonnegut, he is surely one of our most unique American voices.

[rincewind]

The Bus came by and I got on

That's when it all began

It was Cowboy Neal at the wheel

of a Bus to never never land.

The Pranksters kick ass.

[grhqofb5]

If you want some really good insight into Cuckoo's Nest, look it up in Contemporary Literary Criticism.

[Rocky21]

It's long but you may want to read The Electric Kool Aid Acid Test by fellow Richmonder Tom Wolfe.

[Bang]

No disrespect to Kesey, I've enjoyed his work. BUT, I ask what exactly was so great about the sixties?

Peace love, changing the world.. is it any better?

How's the world looking? Let's see, we have an unpopular war, racial unrest, an economy in the dumpster, an untrustworthy media, an untrustworthy government, rampant corruption, rampant profiteering, an 'us vs them' mentality between the elitist upper crust and the working class...

Gee, I'm sure glad they made things better!

I've seriously had enough of the hypocritical Boomers and former flower children patting themselves on the back for all of this crap. Yo, hippy! Who exactly is the establishment in charge now? Oh, you guys?

OK, so granted they made some good music, art and personal expression took a great turn for the better, but I thought it was about more than that. It seems to be the only legacy that has survived beyond the sentimental memories of some old hippies who were going to "change the world".

Way to go. You took your dreams in the sixties, used it to raise a new generation of kids who think they're entitled to everything simply because they want it. You've created a society in which the 80 hour work week is how you get ahead, and strangers raise your kids for you all day while you chase that next Beemer.

You established a more hedonistic attitude among youth, and considering the rise of drug abuse since that time I can't say it's for the better, even though I've enjoyed it myself.

And now you're in power.

In the immortal words of Pete Townsend...

Meet the new boss.... same as the old boss.

~Bang

[Zguy28]

Has anybody here seen my old friend Abraham?

Can you tell me where he's gone?

He freed a lot of people,

But it seems the good they die young.

You know, I just looked around and he's gone.

Anybody here seen my old friend John?

Can you tell me where he's gone?

He freed a lot of people,

But it seems the good they die young.

I just looked around and he's gone.

Anybody here seen my old friend Martin?

Can you tell me where he's gone?

He freed a lot of people,

But it seems the good they die young.

I just looked 'round and he's gone.

Didn't you love the things that they stood for?

Didn't they try to find some good for you and me?

And we'll be free

Some day soon, and it's a-gonna be one day ...

Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?

Can you tell me where he's gone?

I thought I saw him walkin' up over the hill,

With Abraham, Martin and John.

[dockeryfan]

It's long but you may want to read The Electric Kool Aid Acid Test by fellow Richmonder Tom Wolfe.

If you are a Kesey fan or a fan of the Dead, you really should read this book.

[One Shot]

No disrespect to Kesey, I've enjoyed his work. BUT, I ask what exactly was so great about the sixties?

OK, so granted they made some good music, art and personal expression took a great turn for the better

I think you answered your question right there. At least that's why I think the 60s were so great.

[Joe Sick]

If you are a Kesey fan or a fan of the Dead, you really should read this book.

Thirded...

On the Road and The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test are required reading...

[Baculus]

I used to live in Eugene, Oregon, which is the same area where Key Kesey and some of the Pranksters lived. Luckily, I had a chance to meet some of them, worked for Mountain Girl a few times, and went to the Country Fair, which is the yearly psychedelic Pranksters' version of a medieval fair. (These were always the best when the Dead were coming to the town for the summer.) They were all an interesting, eccentric wacky bunch, for sure.

Of course Ken Kesey would attend these events, give readings at the "Midnight Show," which was the most interesting part of the Country Fair, and have parties that locals could attend if they were connected. Kesey and the Pranksters also, one time, had a strange "Wizard of Oz" performance show that they performed at the local community college. It was a very odd Ken Kesey-type event, but the best part was being able to climb on board The Bus and check it out.

It was always neat to see The Bus at different events, with Ken Kesey and the Pranksters still doing their thing.

[Bang]

I think you answered your question right there. At least that's why I think the 60s were so great.

Well, if that is all it was, you'd think they could have saved themselves a hell of a lot of headaches.

It's not all it was supposed to be. The world now was supposed to be made better by these enlightened people of the counterculture.

So much for that.

~Bang

[Baculus]

No disrespect to Kesey, I've enjoyed his work. BUT, I ask what exactly was so great about the sixties?

Peace love, changing the world.. is it any better?

How's the world looking? Let's see, we have an unpopular war, racial unrest, an economy in the dumpster, an untrustworthy media, an untrustworthy government, rampant corruption, rampant profiteering, an 'us vs them' mentality between the elitist upper crust and the working class...

Gee, I'm sure glad they made things better!

I've seriously had enough of the hypocritical Boomers and former flower children patting themselves on the back for all of this crap. Yo, hippy! Who exactly is the establishment in charge now? Oh, you guys?

OK, so granted they made some good music, art and personal expression took a great turn for the better, but I thought it was about more than that. It seems to be the only legacy that has survived beyond the sentimental memories of some old hippies who were going to "change the world"

~Bang

Many from the 60's were a product of an already troubled world, especially after a major world war, conflict in Korea, the Cold War, and ultimately Vietnam.

You can see that that decade was a reactionary decade to what was happening previously and during that time period.

Little wonder that they wanted to change the world - right? Can you really blame them? Can you blame any of today's young people that feel the same way? But the 60's was more then just Peace, Love, and No war, and like many decades, it produced positives and negatives.

Case in point, one major area that you are forgetting: Civil Rights. This was one of the most profound paradigm shifts that the nation was going through at the time, and ultimately, much of it was due to efforts during this decade. This shift in national thinking helped to form the improved American race relations that we see today.

Of course, one can argue that the 60's can be broken up into parts - the first and second half of the decade.

I don't think a lot of the former hippies are in power, though. The leaders in charge that we see, who were young during that decade, are the ones that didn't necessarily "get it" during that time period, either. Look at the Clintons: They were never peace-flag waving youths. Even though they were affected by that time period, they always had political aspirations - they were not "tuning in and dropping out" as Timothy Leary was suggesting.

It may be that generation that's in charge, but it isn't necessarily that 60's-ideals that are influencing them. After all, is President Bush a product of the 60's?

There are many youths right now who believe they are going to change the war, motivated by the Iraqi war, their disagreement with the Bush administration, and the general climate of current events. In many ways the Sixties isn't dead - you see its influence on today's radicalized generation, for good or bad.

I think the Sixties are more complex then just Hippieism. For example, Kesey and the Pranksters were never really just hippies - like the Grateful Dead, they were more so Beatniks, as reflected in their attitudes. They were also more into random art and expression as opposed to the old "Peace, Love, and No War." While they certainly espoused some of these values, it wasn't their main focus.

"Life as Art" was always more so the interest of Kesey, the Pranksters and their friends - that was always my impression.

Way to go. You took your dreams in the sixties, used it to raise a new generation of kids who think they're entitled to everything simply because they want it. You've created a society in which the 80 hour work week is how you get ahead, and strangers raise your kids for you all day while you chase that next Beemer.

You established a more hedonistic attitude among youth, and considering the rise of drug abuse since that time I can't say it's for the better, even though I've enjoyed it myself.

I don't think post-modern consumerism should be blamed on that generation, because "tuning in and dropping out," desiring No War, and buying a BMW have nothing in common. If any decade, it would be 50's mass consumerism that ultimately affected subsequent generations. (Though, it is also possible that after being so poor, as young college students, some folks became very consumer oriented once they started earning money discovered they can buy new "toys.")

Again, it is like saying that "the hippies are now in charge" when these same folks in power are not the peace-sign throwing youths at that time, and the guys buying BMWs were not always these same people, either. If anyone, they would have been the radicals that eventually "fell through" the other side and became conservative. Case in point, some of the neo-conservatives that were once 60's radicals, but had a change in heart a decade or two later and suddenly became Reagan Democrats or Reagan Republicans.

Though Hedonism was definitely a part of the 60's, its ideal wasn't to strive towards "Girls Gone Wild" or the manner in which some of today's youths tend to behave. Of course, such hedonism was a reaction to the 50's, so, again, you can look at that element of the 60's as being reactionary to events and culture at that time.

[OrangeSkin]

Good post, Baculus.

I'd also recommend the documentary "The Weather Underground" for anyone interested in '60s radicalism.

[One Shot]

It's long but you may want to read The Electric Kool Aid Acid Test by fellow Richmonder Tom Wolfe.

I've heard some good **** about The Electric Kool Aid Acid Test, and even if I hadn't, just the title itself makes me want to read it. This summer I'm definitely gonna crack that one open.

[rincewind]

Good post, Baculus.

I'd also recommend the documentary "The Weather Underground" for anyone interested in '60s radicalism.

And since there's a Dylan thread going right now, I'll point out that the Weather Underground took their name from a line in Dylan's 'Subterranean Homesick Blues'

You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.

[Bang]

Many from the 60's were a product of an already troubled world, especially after a major world war, conflict in Korea, the Cold War, and ultimately Vietnam.

You can see that that decade was a reactionary decade to what was happening previously and during that time period.

Little wonder that they wanted to change the world - right? Can you really blame them? Can you blame any of today's young people that feel the same way? But the 60's was more then just Peace, Love, and No war, and like many decades, it produced positives and negatives.

Case in point, one major area that you are forgetting: Civil Rights. This was one of the most profound paradigm shifts that the nation was going through at the time, and ultimately, much of it was due to efforts during this decade. This shift in national thinking helped to form the improved American race relations that we see today.

Of course, one can argue that the 60's can be broken up into parts - the first and second half of the decade.

I don't think a lot of the former hippies are in power, though. The leaders in charge that we see, who were young during that decade, are the ones that didn't necessarily "get it" during that time period, either. Look at the Clintons: They were never peace-flag waving youths. Even though they were affected by that time period, they always had political aspirations - they were not "tuning in and dropping out" as Timothy Leary was suggesting.

It may be that generation that's in charge, but it isn't necessarily that 60's-ideals that are influencing them. After all, is President Bush a product of the 60's?

There are many youths right now who believe they are going to change the war, motivated by the Iraqi war, their disagreement with the Bush administration, and the general climate of current events. In many ways the Sixties isn't dead - you see its influence on today's radicalized generation, for good or bad.

I think the Sixties are more complex then just Hippieism. For example, Kesey and the Pranksters were never really just hippies - like the Grateful Dead, they were more so Beatniks, as reflected in their attitudes. They were also more into random art and expression as opposed to the old "Peace, Love, and No War." While they certainly espoused some of these values, it wasn't their main focus.

"Life as Art" was always more so the interest of Kesey, the Pranksters and their friends - that was always my impression.

I don't think post-modern consumerism should be blamed on that generation, because "tuning in and dropping out," desiring No War, and buying a BMW have nothing in common. If any decade, it would be 50's mass consumerism that ultimately affected subsequent generations. (Though, it is also possible that after being so poor, as young college students, some folks became very consumer oriented once they started earning money discovered they can buy new "toys.")

Again, it is like saying that "the hippies are now in charge" when these same folks in power are not the peace-sign throwing youths at that time, and the guys buying BMWs were not always these same people, either. If anyone, they would have been the radicals that eventually "fell through" the other side and became conservative. Case in point, some of the neo-conservatives that were once 60's radicals, but had a change in heart a decade or two later and suddenly became Reagan Democrats or Reagan Republicans.

Though Hedonism was definitely a part of the 60's, its ideal wasn't to strive towards "Girls Gone Wild" or the manner in which some of today's youths tend to behave. Of course, such hedonism was a reaction to the 50's, so, again, you can look at that element of the 60's as being reactionary to events and culture at that time.

It's simple for me.

Lots of promises. Lots of dreams. Lots of sunshine and flowery dreamy ideals.

Sure they wanted to change the world.

Look at it. They've failed. The world is not much different in terms of everything they were going to change, in fact in a lot of ways it's worse.

(I agree the sixties can be broken into two parts..The Civil rights movement began before the time period I am talking about,, I'm talking about from 67 on,, the Summer of Love group,, the hippies, the flower people. (The majority of the 'counterculture") Civil rights movement people were serious, and had more of a plan than everyone dropping acid and having sex. The Civil Rights movement may have changed some laws, may have opened some eyes, but there is a LOT of resentment on both sides..the endless arguments over race in the tailgate here are a nice microcosm.)

It's worse in that this country is much more materialistic than ever before, the social consciousness has deteriorated.

Their dreaming didn't take root. It was all just a big self indulgent party that ultimately meant nothing, since when they were done, they became the establishment they despised. For a movement as large as it was, for the promise it made, the few successes that come from it are not enough to save it in my mind. By and large they're hypocrites, doing the exact things now they protested against then.

In my mind each generation is responsible for the one that comes after them.

the indulgences of the 60s led to the selfishness of the 70s and 80s... it's not really a coincidence that the people who were in college in the late 60s were the same ones who drove the Me Decade and the Go-Go-Go Decade.. everything they did was ultimately self indulgent, so why should their adult lives be any different?

I do see the youth of today protesting the war.. and I see the generation that taught them how to do it telling them to shut it.

That was my point. Almost nothing has changed except the names on the establishment's door.

In terms of art and self-expression, it was a renaissance decade. Never will I complain about that aspect of it. And like i said from the outset, I have no problem with Kesey and the Pranksters for exactly the reasons you said. But like I also said earlier, the spirit of the Sixties conjures up ideals that were supposed to be about more than that. (I probably went all off topic and hijacked this thread. Sorry about that folks. )

~Bang

[DCsportsfan53]

Great posts by both Bang and Baculus, enjoying the back and forth. One thing I thought I'd mention, Bang, is it's unfair to characterize the Civil Rights movement as stemming from an earlier time while simultaneously blaming the flower children for the rise in consumerism. The rise in consumerism came directly out of an economic model developed shortly after WWII that has been increasing in scope ever since. It's a little simplistic and WAY too rosy at the end, but there's some good information in this about it. Carry on gentlemen.

As for my own opinion, it's tough to say, really, because there were gains and losses in both directions and unforseen consequences but I would have to say, for the most part, the revolution failed and the negative side affects of the good intentions that began it ended up swallowing up and tossing side the potential positives. :2cents:

[Rocky21]

I used to live in Eugene, Oregon, which is the same area where a lot of the Key Kesey and some of the Pranksters lived. Luckily, I had a chance to meet some of them, worked for Mountain Girl a few times, and went to the Country Fair, which is the yearly psychedelic Pranksters' version of a medieval fair. (These were always the best when the Dead were coming to the town for the summer.) They were all an interesting, eccentric wacky bunch, for sure.

Of course Ken Kesey would attend these events, give readings at the "Midnight Show," which was the most interesting part of the Country Fair, and have parties that locals could attend if they were connected. Kesey and the Pranksters also, one time, had a strange "Wizard of Oz" performance show that they performed at the local community college. It was a very odd Ken Kesey-type event, but the best part was being able to climb on board The Bus and check it out.

It was always neat to see The Bus at different events, with Ken Kesey and the Pranksters still doing their thing.

Wow Baculus. This sounds really cool. I'm sure there were some wide eyes at those midnight readings. I can't believe the Furthur bus is still around.

[Baculus]

I've heard some good **** about The Electric Kool Aid Acid Test, and even if I hadn't, just the title itself makes me want to read it. This summer I'm definitely gonna crack that one open.

The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test is a good book, written by a respected author in Tom Wolfe (though he was very young at the time). I would also advise Hunter S. Thompson's Hells Angels, which describes a bit of another side of the counter-culture, and the visit of the Angels to Ken Kesey's ranch.

This was an interesting thread - good responses!

[Baculus]

Wow Baculus. This sounds really cool. I'm sure there were some wide eyes at those midnight readings. I can't believe the Furthur bus is still around.

Oh, it was very cool! Some really neat experiences, too! I have a ton of stories I could relate from these events.

The original Furthur bus is parked somewhere on someone's farm, I believe, but they made a Furthur II which is a ridiculously cool bus.