The Age of American Unreason

[GibbsFactor]

I came to an epiphany the other day with regards to technology in society. Have we simply become to connected too soon? Has this Earth shrunk at an unnatural rate causing all of our cultures to collide when none of us were ready? Has the ability to punch numbers on a calculator reduced our cognitive skills?

What I do know is that while we continue to excel in technology, we all are exposed to so much more information, good and bad. We are in a better state then even the "enlightenment" because of this. We continue to have powerful minds, I believe the issue is that most of us do type faster then we think. Lord knows I'm guilty of such feats. We no longer have time for reflection, outer or for one self as someone mentioned above. We may not be quite as "clear" as we once were because of it. However, I do believe we are using more of our minds then ever before. We are simply in a period of evolution. Change, inevitably, will cause some hardship and grief.

We are all relatively new to this freedom thing. Combined with the ever shrinking world, I feel our great society will take a little longer to fully develop. But I have no fear that our great society will one day be.

The stupid are **** sure and the smart are full of doubt. ~ some guy smarter then I

[WVUforREDSKINS]

Post of the day, Bang. This country ain't perfect, but it's still the best in the world.

It is the best in the world, no doubt. I have a good life here and im thankful for it. I just have an extremely pessimesstic view of our future. I think we are headed for some real dark times that will have to serve as a wake up call.

And some mentioned "elitist" All of our political candidates are elitist. It sucks they have to try to play down like they are joe shmoe who likes to go hunting as a lil girl (shhh she spent a lot of her time trying ban or make it hard to get one. Make sure these people don't know).

No one should want anyone running the country that doesn't think that they are smarter and better than most of the rest of the population. Average joe can't be POTUS. :2cents:

I suppose I am just concerned, and a lil pissed, but I shouldn't expect much to change. The ones in power profit off of a dumbed down consumer society and its always been like that.

[WVUforREDSKINS]

There is definitely a psychological and intellectual impact on humanity by television and electronic communications... some may be positive, but the negatives far outweigh the positives. If Susan Jacoby ever mentions something that partly gels with this, then I would be willing to agree with her on this.

I'll let you know when I get the book later today

[Mass_SkinsFan]

Interesting. Personally I'd call it the Age of American Immorality rather than Unreason.

That society Bang talked about on Page 1 of this thread is the model for something that many of us would like to see the US head back towards. Not all the way back there, mind you, but somewhere pretty close to it. A society where RIGHT and WRONG were well defined and not open for discussion. A society where people knew their roles and accepted them. A society where Justice was as important if not more important than Legal wranglings.

This movement towards "Reason" and away from Morals, Values, and a strict definition of Right v. Wrong is a large part of the looming downfall of this country. We may be the "best" place to live in the world, but I'd suggest that we're no longer a "good" place to live. Trust me if there was somewhere else I thought was even close, I'd be gone in a second.

[cathartic-j]

Kinda weird that shes an atheist I heard her yapping about the four gospels and blah blah genesis this and that on tv the other day. She just stated that 2/3s of Americans didn't know what they were but kinda weird thing to bring up as an atheist.

One's religion has no bearing on the belief that people's decisions about religious matters should be informed.

[Bang]

It is the best in the world, no doubt. I have a good life here and im thankful for it. I just have an extremely pessimesstic view of our future. I think we are headed for some real dark times that will have to serve as a wake up call.

And some mentioned "elitist" All of our political candidates are elitist. It sucks they have to try to play down like they are joe shmoe who likes to go hunting as a lil girl (shhh she spent a lot of her time trying ban or make it hard to get one. Make sure these people don't know).

No one should want anyone running the country who doesn't think that they are smarter and better than most of the rest of the country. :2cents:

I suppose I am just concerned, and a lil pissed, but I shouldn't expect much to change. The ones in power profit off of a dumbed down consumer society and its always been like that.

I can't disagree with any of this.

I'm pessimistic about the future as well, and I hate it. I SO want to be optimistic, and it is hard to find the light. But, I keep trying, y'know.

~Bang

[WVUforREDSKINS]

One's religion has no bearing on the belief that people's decisions about religious matters should be informed.

:applause:

I know more about the bible than many of my so called Christian friends who never go to Church.

Most atheist are very informed about religion.

[cathartic-j]

That society Bang talked about on Page 1 of this thread is the model for something that many of us would like to see the US head back towards. Not all the way back there, mind you, but somewhere pretty close to it. A society where RIGHT and WRONG were well defined and not open for discussion. A society where people knew their roles and accepted them. A society where Justice was as important if not more important than Legal wranglings.

This movement towards "Reason" and away from Morals, Values, and a strict definition of Right v. Wrong is a large part of the looming downfall of this country.

If it weren't for people who questioned our definition of "RIGHT and WRONG," we'd still be embracing slavery (among many other evils). I realize that you're at the far end of the spectrum ... but you don't want to go back to that, do you?

To go a little further, it seems to me that our country was founded on the idea that "RIGHT and WRONG" should be allowed to be questioned. That's why freedom of speech and religion were so crucial. Hell, if it weren't for people questioning accepted doctrine, pilgrims wouldn't have left Europe in the first place!

[WVUforREDSKINS]

I can't disagree with any of this.

I'm pessimistic about the future as well, and I hate it. I SO want to be optimistic, and it is hard to find the light. But, I keep trying, y'know.

~Bang

You gotta live a personal life of optimisim and watch the rest with a skeptical eye

[Mass_SkinsFan]

If it weren't for people who questioned our definition of "RIGHT and WRONG," we'd still be embracing slavery (among many other evils). I realize that you're at the far end of the spectrum ... but you don't want to go back to that, do you?

No, I don't want to go back to slavery. I DO, however, want to go back to a society where there were accepted roles for groups of people (men v. women; parents v. children; employers v. employees; etc...) and they were RIGIDLY enforced.

To go a little further, it seems to me that our country was founded on the idea that "RIGHT and WRONG" should be allowed to be questioned. That's why freedom of speech and religion were so crucial. Hell, if it weren't for people questioning accepted doctrine, pilgrims wouldn't have left Europe in the first place!

They didn't leave Europe in order to accept ALL religious viewpoints. They left to be allowed to follow THEIR religious viewpoint. I believe that there is (or at least was) a distinct AMERICAN society and culture based on certain UNIVERSAL concepts of Right and Wrong. Things that cannot be legitimately debated. This idea that questioning for no reason, or for the reason of causing trouble is appropriate is disgusting to me.

[cathartic-j]

No, I don't want to go back to slavery. I DO, however, want to go back to a society where there were accepted roles for groups of people (men v. women; parents v. children; employers v. employees; etc...) and they were RIGIDLY enforced.

Right. I guess what I'm trying to say is that there's never been a time in American history where we've clearly had all roles defined correctly, and if it weren't for people who challenged those roles, we would still be that oppresive today.

[Mass_SkinsFan]

Right. I guess what I'm trying to say is that there's never been a time in American history where we've clearly had all roles defined correctly, and if it weren't for people who challenged those roles, we would still be that oppresive today.

We're going to have to significantly disagree that we have never been close to perfect. With the exception of racial issues, I'd suggest the 1950's were pretty damn close to a perfect society. At least in my mind.

[Smoot Point Really]

There are "Elites" who are not "Elitist"... Elitism is the dangerous kind of "Pride" that most call "Folly". I said this earlier, but I don't think many picked up on it since I still hear people talking about how all politicians are "elite".

Do you really think that Susan Jacoby is questioning whether or not she should listen to the "penitent pedophile" she spoke about in her article? Do you think she questions why the 150 people who are in her lecture shouldn't be joining the hundreds who are listening to the "born-again"? Her first assumption is to question society, not her own message.

I may be too harshly criticizing what I read, but... IMO, this is "Elitism"... This is "anti-intellectualism". These types like to "re-brand" intellectualism as the art of the critique as opposed to the art of "self-discovery". How elitist of me!!! Obviously, her attitudes toward the "born-again" set me off... I'm not a Protestant/Evangelical, but I didn't appreciate the irony of the argument she was making.

I'll try to back-off on the argument before Jumbo steps in and whacks away at another mangled phrase of mine.

[jujuskinsfan]

"consequences of our stupidity" "American unreason", are you guys becoming European or what?? I can't think of anything this country has done or accomplished that would be "stupid". Those guys writing those books think too much.

[Mass_SkinsFan]

"consequences of our stupidity" "American unreason", are you guys becoming European or what?? I can't think of anything this country has done or accomplished that would be "stupid". Those guys writing those books think too much.

Nothing personal but you must not be looking too hard if you can't find anything done by this country that should be considered STUPID. I can't go more than an hour or two most of the time without finding something else ridiculous that we're doing.

[Smoot Point Really]

Nothing personal but you must not be looking too hard if you can't find anything done by this country that should be considered STUPID. I can't go more than an hour or two most of the time without finding something else ridiculous that we're doing.

We write on message boards too much.

[Bang]

You gotta live a personal life of optimisim and watch the rest with a skeptical eye

That is a very good way to put it. I'm going to swipe that one from you if you don't mind. Wise words.

~Bang

[Smoot Point Really]

I hate to point out the irony, but how can you live optimistically if you are skeptical of everything else?

[helptheSKINS]

And in that generation corporations decided what music you could listen to even more than it is now, artistic freedom was unheard of unless you followed the prescribed trend of the day... the program choices on radio included such luminescence as "Amos and Andy", the government encouraged everyone to smoke, and the overwhelming majority of the country back then were lucky to graduate high school much less go to college. Never mind that they believed women weren't smart enough to vote and that black people would give them cooties if they drank from the same fountain.

So while you wax poetic about how great those days of perfectly formed physical specimens, high education and moral fiber, realize you're dreaming about a fairy tale that didn't exist.

China, who you so ignorantly say "deserves" to be the largest economy in the world, is less than 20 years removed from crushing peaceful protesters with tanks. They are currently crushing perhaps the most peaceful people on earth with tanks, and have been "ethnically cleansing" Tibet for decades. They achieve their low manufacturing costs by what we would consider slave labor in this country. They enact very little pollution control and are poisoning themselves at a rate that would make our worst polluting days look like breaths of fresh air. Their factories dump toxins in their water at such alarming rates that villages and even entire cities downstream from some plants have days in which they can't drink any water due to the chemical content dumped in it. (Last year in fact a large city had a crisis in which a chemical company poisoned the river and no one could use the water for several weeks until the local gov't decided enough of the poison had drifted downstream and it was OK to drink.)

Their government is nothing but corrupt. Local officials live like feudal lords, and those who live andc work in their provinces live like serfs.

For all your disgust at our country, you should maybe open your eyes to a lot of the rest of the world, then get back to me on how bad you think we are in comparison.

Familiarity breeds contempt, and it is disheartening to see such contempt for our country. You may not agree with everything we do, but your sense of disgust towards we fat morons who allow corporations to lead us around is narrow minded at best. If you're going to think that about your neighbors and yourself, you should do a little research into those you're dreamily holding up as better than us.

I think you'd perhaps gain a perspective on just how good you have it, and just how much opportunity is available to you. Opportunity you "deserve" if you make something of it.

~Bang

:applause: :notworthy :applause: :notworthy :applause: :notworthy :point2sky :eaglesuck

[Smoot Point Really]

I hate to point out the irony, but how can you live optimistically if you are skeptical of everything else?

Actually, come to think of it... We are Redskins fans.

[Anne The Fan]

I hate to point out the irony, but how can you live optimistically if you are skeptical of everything else?

I think that you can live like that if you hope for the best but prepare for the worst. It’s not ironic as much as it is paradoxical.

[Smoot Point Really]

I think that you can live like that if you hope for the best but prepare for the worst. It’s not ironic as much as it is paradoxical.

Yes, better word! Paradoxical... Good catch.

[Predicto]

"consequences of our stupidity" "American unreason", are you guys becoming European or what?? I can't think of anything this country has done or accomplished that would be "stupid". Those guys writing those books think too much.

This post is exactly what the book is about.

America has always had a strong tradition of anti-intellectualism. "Those guys think too much" pretty much sums it up. Damn Egghead elitists always looking down their noses at us... Raar! Sometimes eggheads do that and deserve the rebuke, but a lot of times the average Joe has a knee-jerk opposition to whatever the "elites" say, and they define "elites" as anyone who has any idea what the hell they are talking about.

I think Jacoby is kidding herself if she thinks that it is any different now than it ever has been. John Adams and Thomas Jefferson went to their graves bemoaning the fact that the Nation had gone all to hell in a handbasket with the rise of Andrew Jackson-style populism.

[Smoot Point Really]

America has always had a strong tradition of anti-intellectualism. "Those guys think too much" pretty much sums it up. Damn Egghead elitists always looking down their noses at us... Raar! Sometimes eggheads do that and deserve the rebuke, but a lot of times the average Joe has a knee-jerk opposition to whatever the "elites" say, and they define "elites" as anyone who has any idea what the hell they are talking about.

There are ways to delivery positive messages without being an Elitist... It doesn't matter if you are the most intelligent person in the world, if you cannot communicate with people without belittling them or their views you may as well be a chatty-cathy doll. While style doesn't trump substance, grace does...

[Jumbo]

OK, so I "mangled" the words... I do think faster than most of you, but the problem is that I type even faster. She admits that she is an atheist which does make her believe that what ails America and needs to be cured is our religion. This pretty much means that "intellectualism" means freeing your mind from tradition and religion. Know what I "mean"? America really is "mean"... See? I do type faster than I think.

What struck me about her other "article" was that she was talking about how people only listen to viewpoints that support their own and her proof of that was that very few people actually came to her lecture. Most people would view that as a sign that they were either wrong (or at least unpopular)... Like most "liberals", she blames society for her own problems.

Who is " most of me" ? You do have a way with words.

I was just messin with what ya said for cheap laughs, amigo, you "fast thinker" you.

I just like playing off the idea of "what other kind of atheists are there" cuz there's a lot of potential comedy there.

By the way, being a fast thinker is no substitute for being a clear thinker. :poke:

And if you're ever good enough to get 'em both together in one skull, you might be eligible to become a mod! :cool: :laugh: