Auburn's West Coast offense?

[dfbovey]

In Jason Campbell's senior year he ran a form of the WCO at Auburn. Does anyone know what the coaching tree is for the coordinator who ran that offense? Or how similar that offense might be to Mike Holmgren's in terms of terminology?

Trying to figure out if it might be an easier transition than we might think for Jason Campbell to ease into the offense Zorn will be running. I think it's a good thing that Campbell's most productive year in college was in a version of the WCO. Hopefully that will ring true as a pro as well.

[eeyeats]

here's what wikipedia had for me on Al Borges, hope it helps:

Offensive philosophy

Borges is a student of the West Coast offense and once considered himself a West Coast "purist."[8] Borges still credits former San Francisco 49ers head coach Bill Walsh with the major influence for how he coaches quarterbacks.[6] He subsequently incorporated substantial play action into his offense to deal with modern defensive schemes and strives for a 50-50 run-pass ratio.[8] He likes trick or gadget plays to "keep defenses honest" and "deflate your opponent a little bit."[8] After arriving at Auburn in 2004, a traditional rushing offense power, Borges found a deeply talented set of running backs including Cadillac Williams and Ronnie Brown and further modified his version of the West Coast offense to a run-first orientation he has referred to as the "Gulf Coast" offense.[9][10]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Borges

[dfbovey]

Thanks for that. I think it'll be interesting to see how much of a learning curve there will be between what Borges ran in Auburn and what Zorn will be running here.

[eeyeats]

Thanks for that. I think it'll be interesting to see how much of a learning curve there will be between what Borges ran in Auburn and what Zorn will be running here.

hopefully there won't be too much difference. borges says walsh was a big influence, and holmgren was walsh's qb coach, so there's a good chance the system that filtered down to zorn is very walsh-esque and jason can slide right into it without too much trouble.

[PleaseBlitz]

Borges @ Auburn puts a LARGE focus on running the ball.

[ibarramedia]

Even if the offense is the same exact one, How much did Jason Learn in a few years in College? There may be nuances of the offense that are new to him. Even in the pros, i doubt a team would really learn,master and memorize the entire playbook. i mean some parts of the playbook are probably not covered. It may take a few years....

[33]

Holmgren runs what is considered to be the "purest" form of the WCO in the NFL. He has in recent years incorporated some new wrinkles, in part due to Zorn (if you read between the lines). But through most of his career he has stayed very true to Bill Walsh's teaching and philosophies.

"I'm going to try to be like [Holmgren] and keep things pure," Zorn said. "What we did in Seattle--and Mike encouraged this as well--was we used attachments. There were plays we'd run on third downs where you'd say, 'This is not the West Coast Offense. I don't recognize this at all.'

"You'd start to see some of the innovation in some of these patterns that we were attaching to the West Coast offense and the personnel groupings. As Mike saw those attachments working, he got comfortable with them."

From Redskins.com

Seahawks coach Mike Holmgren was on the phone last Thursday with his mentor, former 49ers coach Bill Walsh. Even though Holmgren has been running a pure form of the West Coast offense for almost two decades, it's wise for the pupil to stay in touch with the teacher heading into a Super Bowl.

From John Clayton

In regards to those saying that Borge ran a run-first style of the WCO at Auburn, that isn't really an issue when it comes to Campbell getting things. He should understand some of the principles in the passing game and terminology that come along with a pure style of the WCO. Besides Zorn has already said we're likely to start off being a run first team since we're not learning a new running game. If it works then I imagine will stick with that style.

[illone]

Unfortunately the year Borges ran that offense, Auburn had a two headed monster at tailback: Cadillac Williams and Ronnie Brown, both of whom were drafted ahead of JC and for good reason at the time.

That said, there wasn't many elements of the WCO being used in the passing game that year. They had such a good running game and a stifling defense (led by Carlos Rogers, ahem) they didn't really throw the ball that much as evidenced by Jason's 270 attempts compared to Caddy/Brown attempts which combined to over 390.

That version of the WCO consisted of run, run, run, run, play-action, run, run, run:laugh:.

Point being, I don't think Jason's experience at Auburn has anything to do with what Zorn is going to try to teach him. Plus, Skins fans could only dream of having a running game that dominant. Just about any decent QB could get by in college with that setup. Maybe he'll recognize some of the verbiage, but other than that Jason has a lot to learn.

[RocketCitySkins]

There are several points that stand out to me when I watch the pass plays from the 2004 SEC Championship highlights.

The o-line usually gave JC time to throw.

The receivers were open due to the respect the defense gave RB and CW.

But most relevant to now is a LOT of the passes Jason threw were 5 to 10 yards and the receivers made the extra yardage.

This is what I expect to see from Jason this year. Short, quick passes with an occasional long throw.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=3Bd7BoF5zbY

http://youtube.com/watch?v=cVPthlhGb54

[33]

Unfortunately the year Borges ran that offense, Auburn had a two headed monster at tailback: Cadillac Williams and Ronnie Brown, both of whom were drafted ahead of JC and for good reason at the time.

JC isn't calling the plays, so the difference in how they ran their WCO w/ Borges and how Zorn will be running it isn't really an issue here.

The only issues that I see are will JC understand what Zorn is teaching him? Will JC be able to grasp the fundamentals and philosophies of this passing game? Will JC be familiar with, or learn the new terminology quickly?

JC can't control our running game, his protection, or opposing defenses.

The OP was concerned as to whether JC may have an easier transition this off-season due to having been involved in a WCO offense in the past. All that matters in that case is how similar Zorn and Borges terminology and WCO styles are. And for that, all we have to go on is the fact that we know both believe themselves to have their base packages be a pure style of WCO.

[Fieldy]

Even if the offense is the same exact one, How much did Jason Learn in a few years in College? There may be nuances of the offense that are new to him. Even in the pros, i doubt a team would really learn,master and memorize the entire playbook. i mean some parts of the playbook are probably not covered. It may take a few years....

And how much of it did he unlearn in his 3 years in the pros? To expect JC to be an all-star this year is to expect Rosie O'Donnel to look like Angelina Jolie. A lot of work and a little plastic surgery will go a looooooong way...

[GoCommiesGo]

Borges @ Auburn puts a LARGE focus on running the ball.

That is almost an understatement.

Hell he threw the ball 295 times and the running backs ran the ball 400+ times his senior year.

Last year was the first time he attempted over 300 passes in a season...ever.

[33]

That is almost an understatement.

Hell he threw the ball 295 times and the running backs ran the ball 400+ times his senior year.

Last year was the first time he attempted over 300 passes in a season...ever.

Once again, and I hate to continue hitting the gong on this...

What does any of that have to do with the topic?

The question is will the transition be easier for JC since he's already been in a pure WCO before.

No one's asking if he'll have a great season. We're speculating on whether or not he will be ready by the time the season starts, or mid season, if it will take a few years.

[GoCommiesGo]

Once again, and I hate to continue hitting the gong on this...

What does any of that have to do with the topic?

The question is will the transition be easier for JC since he's already been in a pure WCO before.

No one's asking if he'll have a great season. We're speculating on whether or not he will be ready by the time the season starts, or mid season, if it will take a few years.

Your right it has nothing to do with the topic at hand. But I still would argue that it was not a pure WCO at Auburn.

The terminology should be the same though from what I understand it will be the opposite of the Gibbs/Saunders offense.

Since he has used it before it shouldn't take him very long to pick it back up.

--Edit--

I think Zorn mentioned that they will be cutting down the playbook for JC so I would hope he would be ready at the start of the season.

[bobzmuda]

Unfortunately the year Borges ran that offense, Auburn had a two headed monster at tailback: Cadillac Williams and Ronnie Brown, both of whom were drafted ahead of JC and for good reason at the time.

That said, there wasn't many elements of the WCO being used in the passing game that year. They had such a good running game and a stifling defense (led by Carlos Rogers, ahem) they didn't really throw the ball that much as evidenced by Jason's 270 attempts compared to Caddy/Brown attempts which combined to over 390.

That version of the WCO consisted of run, run, run, run, play-action, run, run, run:laugh:.

Point being, I don't think Jason's experience at Auburn has anything to do with what Zorn is going to try to teach him. Plus, Skins fans could only dream of having a running game that dominant. Just about any decent QB could get by in college with that setup. Maybe he'll recognize some of the verbiage, but other than that Jason has a lot to learn.

This is a pretty common misconception. Campbell was voted SEC Offensive Player of the Year that year. SEC coaches recognized it was him who made that offense go. The 04 Tigers weren't exactly running the ball like the 95 Huskers. Campbell had to carry them and jump-start that team at times. Just look at the 04 Iron Bowl when Auburn was trying to run run run run against the #2 defense in the country and it was getting them nowhere fast. Only when they opened up the passing game did they start putting up yards and points.

Everyone wants to point to those 2 RBs, but Auburn had a really good line that year (Marcus McNeil, Ben Grubbs are both first round picks from that line), and rotated in about 5 WRs/TEs that are in the NFL right now. It was an extremely talented offense all the way around. Pity Oklahoma got to play for the BCS instead. Auburn would have given USC a great game.

[33]

Your right it has nothing to do with the topic at hand. But I still would argue that it was not a pure WCO at Auburn.

The terminology should be the same though from what I understand it will be the opposite of the Gibbs/Saunders offense.

Since he has used it before it shouldn't take him very long to pick it back up.

--Edit--

I think Zorn mentioned that they will be cutting down the playbook for JC so I would hope he would be ready at the start of the season.

It wasn't a pure WCO w/ Borges at Auburn in our minds simply because they ran more than a normal WCO would. But as I said in another post, JC didn't call the plays then and he won't now. So I don't see that as an issue. In those instances he just needs to hand the ball off.

But if he learned similar philosophies in the passing game, that stays the same. If we become a pass first team, then that just means that JC uses those philosophies more than he did with Borges. But they still are the same in theory, I would assume. Same routes, same goals, and hopefully same terminology for his sake.

And also, Zorn has said he expects us to at least start off as more of a run heavy team since he's not changing the running game.

[Mr. S]

Everyone wants to point to those 2 RBs, but Auburn had a really good line that year (Marcus McNeil, Ben Grubbs are both first round picks from that line), and rotated in about 5 WRs/TEs that are in the NFL right now. It was an extremely talented offense all the way around. Pity Oklahoma got to play for the BCS instead. Auburn would have given USC a great game.

They would have kept that game close for sure. Auburn did not score too many points overall, but that defense kept the games close. Plus when that passing game got going, that offense could roll well.

Ben Obomanu, Devin Aromashodu, Anthony Mix, Cooper Wallace, and Courtney Taylor were all good players at the time. Obomanu has gotten more playing time in Seattle since, while Aromashodu sits behind the Colts great lineup. Mix may get more attention on our team now. Another year together, even if the RB's had gone, and that offense would have improved greatly. Campbell was far better than Brandon Cox (who I don't think is even trying to get drafted).

[PlayAction]

Run, run, play action doesn't sound at all like a WCO. If the play action is a long pass that sounds more like a Gibbs offense! Pure WCO is more along the lines of 4 yard pass, 4 yard pass, screen play. The dinks and dunks that fans hated so much. The only difference is that in a WCO the dinks and dunks hopefully turn into longer plays. I would think that a really run heavy offense would neutralize the advantage of the WCO short passing game as all of the defense will be moving up to defend running and short passes.

[RocketCitySkins]

It wasn't a pure WCO w/ Borges at Auburn in our minds simply because they ran more than a normal WCO would. But as I said in another post, JC didn't call the plays then and he won't now. So I don't see that as an issue. In those instances he just needs to hand the ball off.

I disagree and I watch every play of every Auburn game. JC was a field general after the LSU game in 2004.The majority of 2004 JC wore one of those flip charts on his wrist. He didn't look to the sideline for the plays, he looked to his chart. I remember one game he had to call a time-out because the chart had fell off his wrist and the players had to find it on the ground before the game continued. That wouldn't have happened if the sideline were calling most of the plays. Even the fans on the board that don't support Jason admit that he was the most productive last year when a no huddle offense was run.

[33]

I disagree and I watch every play of every Auburn game. JC was a field general after the LSU game in 2004.The majority of 2004 JC wore one of those flip charts on his wrist. He didn't look to the sideline for the plays, he looked to his chart. I remember one game he had to call a time-out because the chart had fell off his wrist and the players had to find it on the ground before the game continued. That wouldn't have happened if the sideline were calling most of the plays. Even the fans on the board that don't support Jason admit that he was the most productive last year when a no huddle offense was run.

I think you mis-read my intention. I am one of the people who think he thrived calling his own plays last year.

I was mainly under the impression that basically no college Qb gets to call their plays. However, it sounds like you know more about this subject than I do.

I will say this though, in college often the play is brought in by a substituting player, or the chart is a guideline to match with the signals you get from the sideline. Same as with the pros, except in the pros they have a mic in the helmet.

But, again, I can not make any un-equivocal statements on JC's play calling at Auburn

[RocketCitySkins]

In the pros they have a mic in the helmet.

I came back to the thread to agree with you.

No matter how much of the time JC was allowed to call the plays at Auburn, I doubt he will be calling very many plays under Zorn.

[dfbovey]

It wasn't a pure WCO w/ Borges at Auburn in our minds simply because they ran more than a normal WCO would. But as I said in another post, JC didn't call the plays then and he won't now. So I don't see that as an issue. In those instances he just needs to hand the ball off.

The pure form of the WCO when it started in San Fran was pretty balanced with Roger Craig and Tom Rathman running the ball... and the teams that still run that form of the offense still lean heavily on the run game, which is what will be happening here. I'm sure it won't be as much as Auburn ran the ball, but I don't think this will be Andy Reid's version of the WCO which is overly pass happy.

[dreamshatterer]

He managed the games and threw a lot of yrads and was named SEC offensive player of the year that year. Led Auburn to a 13-0 record and should've played Southern California for the national title. Not Oklahoma. This was under the WCO. We'll be alright.

[bobzmuda]

Campbell was far better than Brandon Cox (who I don't think is even trying to get drafted).

Brandon Cox might be the only college football player I can remember who played worse and worse as he got more playing time. It was truly unreal how his play diminished.

[RocketCitySkins]

Brandon Cox might be the only college football player I can remember who played worse and worse as he got more playing time. It was truly unreal how his play diminished.

Overall, from year to year, I agree. But this last year I thought he showed more poise towards the end of the season. At the beginning of the year Brandon was done for the entire game if he was knocked down hard, threw an interception or threw a pass into the ground. At the end of the year, he could come back and put a couple of drives together. But that's what should really be expected all the time from a 5th year senior. I think his illness may have played a bigger part than anyone wanted to admit. I'll always remember Brandon for the last second pass against UGA that setup the win and for being only the second quarterback to beat Bama 3 times. Jason was the first. I felt sure no one would draft Brandon but I didn't know he wasn't even trying to be drafted.

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