33 Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 Would you say Turkey is a Christian country?.. No, I would say that Turkey has no State Religion, and has a very similar set up to us in that religion is protected by the state but not endorsed. Will you please answer the question now? It was sincere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMike619 Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 Yeah, that's a good argument. Why should have to believe in your God or not? I don't know if he exist and neither do you. I think you guys are naive and atheists lack imagination, spirit, and faith. Either way, I think both groups are getting the short end of the stick until one or the other can prove something. Well I hope that an agnostic person can make a decision when it comes to something important that could effect the entire country or world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rincewind Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 Well I hope that an agnostic person can make a decision when it comes to something important that could effect the entire country or world. Do you mean deciding whether or not he/she personally believed in supernatural being that can neither be seen or heard? That decision? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMike619 Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 Thanks - you're saying he's right, that the majority ****ed up and shouldn't have been listened to. Nope, Im just saying that your way of thinking is wrong. Just because the majority was black doesnt mean they could vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 No, I would say that Turkey has no State Religion, and has a very similar set up to us in that religion is protected by the state but not endorsed. Will you please answer the question now? It was sincere. Turkey has a secular government but is a Muslim country. There's your answer. (not being a smartass, but that question is a pet peeve of mine. It's not rocket science A quick look at the demographics of this country and the professed religion of every President/VP in our history will answer the question) Also, this is a good book, and does a great job of explaining why the earliest Christian settlers plaid such an important role in the framing of our country. I highly recommend it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMike619 Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 Do you mean deciding whether or not he/she personally believed in supernatural being that can neither be seen or heard? That decision? I mean anything, you cant even decide if you believe this supernatural being is real or not. From the sounds of it you dont, but you arent able to commit to one side or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outbaksean Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 Could you argue against the fact that the majority of the south was for slavery? and the majority of the north was against slavery. The majority of the People in the United States were always against slavery, but slaveowners were a very vocal minority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
33 Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 Well I hope that an agnostic person can make a decision when it comes to something important that could effect the entire country or world. No offense, BigMike but that's a pretty narrow mindset if you think it takes God to make an important decision that would affect an entire populace. You might be comforted by someone who consults God on a decision like that, but it hardly means even a believer could make the decision without asking God's guidance. It's still the person making the decision, there is nothing I've read that says God will be making that decision for GW Bush. I hope that hasn't been the case. :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rincewind Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 Nope, Im just saying that your way of thinking is wrong. Just because the majority was black doesnt mean they could vote. Yeah, I know. And so, by extension, that means the majority was white and most likely in favor of slavery. Now, should the majority have been listened to in that instance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
33 Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 and the majority of the north was against slavery. The majority of the People in the United States were always against slavery, but slaveowners were a very vocal minority. Yeah, maybe I didn't do my research on the previous. The majority of the North was against the Civil War, however. Nazis have already been cited for you. It's late and I'm not going to drudge up further examples, but you can be sure the majority has not always been correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 So you don't think anything can be gleaned from a person's character by his spirituality? Interesting.... What useful information did you glean about Clinton or Bush from their professed spirtiuality? Was it correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rincewind Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 I mean anything, you cant even decide if you believe this supernatural being is real or not. From the sounds of it you dont, but you arent able to commit to one side or the other. So, because I haven't made my mind up on one issue - which, by the way, isn't true but is what you are saying; it means I can't make up my mind on any decision? Seriously, I don't know what school work I'm going to work on tomorrow - but I do know that I'm going to watch the Caps game on Sunday. See, undecided on one, decided on the other. Granted, neither effects the world, but then again none of my decisions do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMike619 Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 No offense, BigMike but that's a pretty narrow mindset if you think it takes God to make an important decision that would affect an entire populace. You might be comforted by someone who consults God on a decision like that, but it hardly means even a believer could make the decision without asking God's guidance. It's still the person making the decision, there is nothing I've read that says God will be making that decision for GW Bush. I hope that hasn't been the case. :doh: You're misunderstanding me. I said they take a stand on whether they do or dont believe. I dont believe an agnostic person should be in charge since if they seem unable to take a side on that then what else would they flip flop on? Thats what Im saying. Athiest or Christian is a different story. I am saying agnostic people scare me if they are in power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjTj Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 Well I'm no expert either, just what I've seen/heard in casual instances.That said, you know that sometimes politics is more about NOT LOSING votes than actively lobbying for them. I think the 2/3's voted more in line with not wanting to alienate a large block of voters than they did on princible. Of course, nobody thought it would be as big a deal as it turned out to be. jmo, if I'm wrong, someone correct me, I really don't know too much about it. Well, regardless of what the reality is, I think it illustrates an important point: It's not just a numerical majority that matters; you need a majority of people who will actually act.It doesn't matter if 90% of the population agrees with you on a political issue, if the only people voting are the 10% who don't agree with you. The same thing happens with racial comments on the radio or people protesting nativity scenes. The people who are offended care a lot more, so they hold protests or file lawsuits while the majority just goes about their lives. A vocal minority will beat a silent majority every time. That's how politics works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rincewind Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 You're misunderstanding me. I said they take a stand on whether they do or dont believe. I dont believe an agnostic person should be in charge since if they seem unable to take a side on that then what else would they flip flop on?Thats what Im saying. Athiest or Christian is a different story. I am saying agnostic people scare me if they are in power. ITS ONE ISSUE!!! And, not an important one to a lot of people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
33 Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 You're misunderstanding me. I said they take a stand on whether they do or dont believe. I dont believe an agnostic person should be in charge since if they seem unable to take a side on that then what else would they flip flop on?Thats what Im saying. Athiest or Christian is a different story. I am saying agnostic people scare me if they are in power. My bad. I definitely misunderstood you. But wouldn't you admit that it takes some cahones for a grown man to say he truly hasn't decided on the idea of God? Some indecision's are tougher than decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMike619 Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 So, because I haven't made my mind up on one issue - which, by the way, isn't true but is what you are saying; it means I can't make up my mind on any decision? Seriously, I don't know what school work I'm going to work on tomorrow - but I do know that I'm going to watch the Caps game on Sunday. See, undecided on one, decided on the other. Granted, neither effects the world, but then again none of my decisions do. You will make a decsion eventually about what you are going to work on tomorrow right? And thats pretty insignificant if you ask me. What Im saying is that you cant make a decision on if God is real or not, why would I trust you to do the right then when it comes to decisions of war? Are you going to full heartedly agree that I should go in and then halfway thru flip flop and say, "well I dont know" and leave me high and dry? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rincewind Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 My bad. I definitely misunderstood you. But wouldn't you admit that it takes some cahones for a grown man to say he truly hasn't decided on the idea of God? Some indecision's are tougher than decisions. Funny thing is - to me, agnostics are using their brain a lot more than believers or atheists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMike619 Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 My bad. I definitely misunderstood you. But wouldn't you admit that it takes some cahones for a grown man to say he truly hasn't decided on the idea of God? Some indecision's are tougher than decisions. I think it would take more to take a stand "against the majority" and say what he truly believes. I dont believe that someone "doesnt know", I believe that we all have a real thought in our heart but we are sometimes too scared to put it out there from fear of rejection or not being approved by our peers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 What useful information did you glean about Clinton or Bush from their professed spirtiuality? I see where you're going and it's a fair point. People don't always do as they say. But to take your position and say that spirituality is a non-issue, well that's naive. Even in Clinton/Bush worst moments, most Americans have a fairly good idea of what beliefs make up their value system, and which don't. I guess I could easily turn it around on you, too. If this guy represented ALL of your beliefs EXACTLY... fiscal, social, etc... would you vote for him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMike619 Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 ITS ONE ISSUE!!! And, not an important one to a lot of people. Obviously it is important or else we wouldnt have an entire thread on it with all of these postings.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rincewind Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 You will make a decsion eventually about what you are going to work on tomorrow right? And thats pretty insignificant if you ask me.What Im saying is that you cant make a decision on if God is real or not, why would I trust you to do the right then when it comes to decisions of war? Are you going to full heartedly agree that I should go in and then halfway thru flip flop and say, "well I dont know" and leave me high and dry? But, if they make a decision about God they are doing it on faulty info - either way they decided. Therefore, you now have a president who makes decisions without all of the facts in (sounds familiar). Personally, I'd rather have a agnostic as they are they only one that understands that God can not be proven to exist or not exist. Logic is wonderful thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outbaksean Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 But, if they make a decision about God they are doing it on faulty info - either way they decided. Therefore, you now have a president who makes decisions without all of the facts in (sounds familiar). Personally, I'd rather have a agnostic as they are they only one that understands that God can not be proven to exist or not exist. Logic is wonderful thing. People have to make decisions without all of the data sometimes. Sometimes a fast response to a situation is better than trying to collect every relavent fact before doing anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rincewind Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 People have to make decisions without all of the data sometimes. Sometimes a fast response to a situation is better than trying to collect every relavent fact before doing anything. I don't think the question 'Do you believe in God' calls for a fast decision. I don't see how that question would ever be a life or death call for the president. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMike619 Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 But, if they make a decision about God they are doing it on faulty info - either way they decided. Therefore, you now have a president who makes decisions without all of the facts in (sounds familiar). Personally, I'd rather have a agnostic as they are they only one that understands that God can not be proven to exist or not exist. Logic is wonderful thing. What you consider logic I consider the inability to take a stand and come to a decision on your own. You also dont know if you do your homework tomorrow that you might miss out on something life changing. Are you not going to do your homework now? If you go to the Caps game Jessica Alba may come by your house and confess that she loves you. You dont have all the facts to discredit that so its up to you if you want to take that chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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