Bounce Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 So, after reading through most of the wide receiver threads, I've come to the conclusion that a majority of Redskins fans do not, in fact, watch any NFL games other than those involving our favorite maroon-and-black franchise. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that most of the fans on this board completely shield themselves from any news or analysis about any other team, and simply guess who won the Super Bowl every year. That theory is the only explanation I can come up with for the steadfast belief that, somehow, this year's splashy, expensive signing at an outside position will be so much different than all the other years we've tried that very thing. Doesn't anyone else find it ironic that the year in which we were all collectively the most pessimistic about our receivers going into the season (2005) turned out to be our best year under Snyder? Beyond irony, doesn't anyone else think there might be a reason behind that? Those who are clamoring to use multiple draft picks and gobs of cap space to secure the rights to Chad Johnson/Roy Williams/Larry Fitzgerald must realize that they are advocating a certain personnel philosophy. There is only so much cap space to go around. There are only so many draft picks we can use. All positions cannot receive equal treatment; investing a lot in one position will ultimately mean having to skimp on others. Given how much cap space we will use in the 2008 season without any new additions (remember, not only do Moss and ARE have large contracts, but we'll also be paying off Lloyd), the pro-SuperWR crowd are essentially pushing to focus the Redskins' roster on the wide receiver position, at the expense of others. In the past few years, several other teams have tried this. They are: The Arizona Cardinals The Detroit Lions The Oakland Raiders Arguably, the Cincinatti Bengals Collective playoff appearances by those teams in the past four years: 1 Now, that's not to say that our WR corps is perfect, or that they should not be improved in any way. There are many economical options available that would allow us to make a modest upgrade on the outside while still being able to improve our roster at positions that will have much more of an impact on the only things that really matter - wins and losses. This discussion is not about those options. This discussion is about the fans who are absolutely convinced that we need a Chad Johnson here, that we need to spend tens of millions on yet another wide receiver investment, that the way to fix an offense's woes is to blow your wad on a player who will ultimately touch the ball about five times a game, a player who will only accomplish anything if everyone else on offense successfully does their job first. These fans advocate sacrificing ability to upgrade in other areas so we can acquire one of three receivers who, between them, have sniffed the postseason once in their careers. Shouldn't that tell you something? Shouldn't that make you wonder just how much a dominant receiver will ultimately help us win games? Winning teams don't build from the outside in. Winning teams don't copy the model of the Lions, Cardinals, and Raiders. So why do so many want to follow in those losing footsteps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CGSKINS Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 I do not want us to give up ANY DRAFT PICKS for ANYBODY!!!!!!!!! We need to keep them and grab some young talent. We can aquire a Good WR from the Draft or FA. We cannot keep giving our future away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0mega Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 Halle-freaking-luiah! Preach it brother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abu69 Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 True, True. I feel like "big-time WR" is one of the last pieces of the puzzle. We have a ways to go for that step. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blchizzleke Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 This is to the original poster...I'm not sure how I feel about picking up Chad Johnson but you have to consider that he is different from out two most recent big signings at wide receiver. Neither Lloyd nor Randle El ever carried the load for their team and I dont think either one even made a pro bowl before coming here. Johnson, however, is a proven elite receiver and though he may be a character risk, he is a sure bet to produce on the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truskinsfan18 Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 Thank you, a smart fan. Great post. Some people just never learn from history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illone Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 Excellent thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bounce Posted February 14, 2008 Author Share Posted February 14, 2008 This is to the original poster...I'm not sure how I feel about picking up Chad Johnson but you have to consider that he is different from out two most recent big signings at wide receiver. Neither Lloyd nor Randle El ever carried the load for their team and I dont think either one even made a pro bowl before coming here. Johnson, however, is a proven elite receiver and though he may be a character risk, he is a sure bet to produce on the field. It's not a question of whether or not Chad will produce. Of course he will produce. He's too good not to. It's a question of where an NFL team should invest the largest chunks of its salary cap and draft picks. If we trade for Chad and sign him to the big new deal that Rosenhaus is demanding (which would virtually be a given because, otherwise, the trade would be pointless), we have invested an inordinate amount of cap space and draft picks into our wide receivers. This is space and picks that could otherwise be used on other positions. If we acquire Chad, we will not upgrade some other positions that need upgrading, because it simply will not be possible in our position. Period. The other teams that have followed that blueprint have had virtually no success. So why should we copy it? Or, to phrase it differently... Chad had, of course, produced very well over the past five or six years. During his dominant period, how many playoff games has he won? And that's with Carson Palmer throwing it to him. So if Chad's incredible production hasn't led to a single playoff victory, and that production will almost certainly be reduced by 20% or so because our offense and our quarterback are simply not at the level of the Bengals'... why are we blowing our wad on him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0mega Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 This is to the original poster...I'm not sure how I feel about picking up Chad Johnson but you have to consider that he is different from out two most recent big signings at wide receiver. Neither Lloyd nor Randle El ever carried the load for their team and I dont think either one even made a pro bowl before coming here. Johnson, however, is a proven elite receiver and though he may be a character risk, he is a sure bet to produce on the field. ......and will cost us our first rounder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaRonDontLikeUgly Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 nice thread- strong points.... we absolutely need a tall receiver with hands... but we don't need a 30 year old showboat who publicly criticizes his coach + organization... (we have plenty of 30+ year olds on this board who do enough of that already) nftdraftcountdown.com ranks each position fairly well in my opinion, and of the TOP 50 ranked WR's, 19 of them are atleast 6'3''... ...maybe we'd be lucky enough to grab James Hardy in the 2nd round... He is 6'7'', runs a 4.54, and oh yeah, scored 36 TD's in just 3 years for Indiana... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jujuskinsfan Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 The difference between us and the cards, lions, raiders and bengals is that we made the playoffs twice in 3 years. We already have a playoffs team potential. We just need to improve at some position like the WRs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaxinFish29 Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 I agree but also feel there is a big difference in signing a proven WR, to drafting 239824829147 WRs in round one like the Lions, and finally getting a good one out of Roy Williams. If they come at the right price then go get em, if not then you couldn't be more right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaxinFish29 Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 I guess I should have added the fact that if a big proven WR doesnt come at the right price, my man-crush this offseason is devoted entirely to James Hardy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Harris Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 nice thread. you've been here long enough to know that if there are two things ES doesn't do as a whole, they are: 1. we don't practice the patience we like to try to preach. 2. we don't learn from mistakes very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
66skinsfan Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 Your list left off one team - New England Cheats. How many top FA wideouts did they sign to make the super bowl? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veretax Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 I'll be honest I'd rather build through the draft, but I'm not totally against a trade for a top notch WR or a FA signing. I do think the economic concerns will keep cincy from trading Chad, and that's the main reason I don't see it happening. Could be the same thing with AZ and Fitz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FredrockSkinsFan Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 Agreed 100%. I feel like this game is 90% D-Line and O-Line. If you can set up blocks, QB's, WR's, and RB's look infinitely better; similarly, if you can apply pressure upfront, you make DB's and LB's look infinitely better. Then we do what all the great teams do, and trade the lackluster backfield that looks great on paper for way more than they're worth. :helmet: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Harris Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 Your list left off one team - New England Cheats. How many top FA wideouts did they sign to make the super bowl? one. and it was largely viewed at a gamble. a very low cost gamble, i might add. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DexterSackMachine Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 Mark my words, if we trade for Johnson, many of the fans who are saying they want him now, will be ripping the FO apart for getting him in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWFLSkins Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 So, after reading through most of the wide receiver threads, I've come to the conclusion that a majority of Redskins fans do not, in fact, watch any NFL games other than those involving our favorite maroon-and-black franchise. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that most of the fans on this board completely shield themselves from any news or analysis about any other team, and simply guess who won the Super Bowl every year. Bounce, I thought your thread was fairly well intentioned and with strong merit, though there are arguments against it. You did however paint the fanbase with an awfully wide brush though. I don't think the majority right now especially is swinging one way or the other. And if the hiring of Zorn does not surprise you or "us" then signing or not signing CJ should not be assumed by anyone. He is not signed by the Redskins as of now. In fact his agent Drew superagent is probably using the the team as he has in the past, to get the $$ up and to draw out interest from any other party. IMO, we should only take a look a CJ if the price is right. Adding a proven WR would be great but not at the expense of other more pressing needs. DL, DE, OL and CB would be ahead of WR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedskinsFanatic Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 This is to the original poster...I'm not sure how I feel about picking up Chad Johnson but you have to consider that he is different from out two most recent big signings at wide receiver. Neither Lloyd nor Randle El ever carried the load for their team and I dont think either one even made a pro bowl before coming here. Johnson, however, is a proven elite receiver and though he may be a character risk, he is a sure bet to produce on the field. Nothing is (sure) in the NFL, and he IS and would be a character risk for the team. :logo: Draft needs: O-Line !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aireskoi Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 Plaxico Burress was a big name free agent WR for the Giants. He seemed to make a big difference for them. Maybe the Packers have won the Superbowl instead of the Giants if they would have gotten Randy Moss like Farve wanted. Dallas was pretty good with TO, another big-name trouble-making FA WR. Are we that much worse than the Giants and Cowboys? I think not. I think your list of poor teams starts with their QB issues rather than the abundance of WR talent and money spent. Bengals excluded, their big issue is defense. I hope they just draft a WR with a second day pick and wait until after the draft to see what FA WRs are available. If all else fails, including A. Mix, trade for someone then if possible or just play the season out. We may already have the WR corps we need, with the new offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warpath11 Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 IMO if you want to be succesful a team must build from the inside-out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernie5 Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 Agreed re: not giving up any draft picks (of course, Detroit, AZ, and Oakland did nearly all of their WR damage in the draft). I'd be more pro CJ if he were simply a free agent. I don't believe it's emulating any of those teams by picking up a stud WR (any more than NE or Dallas emulated those teams). I don't see any harm is talking about trading for Chad Johnson or inquiring about his availability, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cphil006 Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 A good GM is crucial. That is why Matt Millen should have been fired along with Vinny Cerrato long ago. Cardinals actually have a game plan and are getting competitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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