PlayAction Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 Players age. Contracts become unwieldly and not all players are willing to renegotiate. I'm assuming that Williams becomes HC and keeps the same Defensive and Offensive schemes with only minor changes. While that assumption eliminates the need for drastic turnover there are still too many areas of need (present and near future) for the Skins: Offensive Line: The entire line is getting older and will need to be completely overhauled over the next 3-4 years. Jansen, Wade and Heyer will fight it out for RT. I think Jansen is the best at running blocking but Wade and Heyer are better at pass blocking. Skins may move Jansen to Guard and have him try to win a starting spot at either RG or LG (Parcells said Skins should have done that a while ago). I think the Skins need to look for a young Guard in rounds 3-4 depending upon what's available. Capable of starting in a pinch but better in year 2 to replace the then 36 yo Kendall. I know the Skins don't currently have a 4th but could get one by trading down. Wide Receiver: I think the Skins will keep Moss, Randel El, Caldwell, Thrash (4th WR, special teamer and backup H back) and Mix (assuming he works with Campbell in the offseason - his 6' 5" height will be a nice addition). Skins will look for a value pickup later in the draft rather than using a first-second rounder. That's the best scenario for use of draft picks. If we follow fan hopes for a star WR then it would likely use up another pick in rounds 1-3. TE Cooley, Yoder and Ecker - I think we are okay. Skins will look for a value pickup in the draft. Defensive End/Defensive Tackle Skins desperately need a pass rush either via better push up the middle or a better rush from the DEs. Daniels doesn't have enough left to be an effective pass rusher (either as DE or as a DT on passing downs). Griffin can't get penetration anymore due to declining skills. While Golsten could take over for Griffin over time I'm not sure he has sufficent talent to ever be dominant. The problem is that DEs available in the draft that are good pass rushers may be better suited to RDE. Other quality DEs may be gone before the Skins pick at 21. Skins could use both the first and second round picks on the DL (I know it will never happen but we can dream). Skins will use all of their contract renegotiations to get down under the cap total. There won't be much room for free agent pickups. Corner Back High quality CBs often are picked in rounds 1-2. Springs played well at the end of the season after recovering from recurring injuries. But his contract 8+ million is too high and he was unwilling last year to renegotiate. Skins will have to devote one of the their high picks to a CB unfortunately. LB Skins backups are all best suited to MLB. McIntosh will take some time to recover. Washington has been injured the last two seasons. Godfrey is good against the run but is 35. Skins need to look for a true outside linebacker. But it won't be with a high draft pick. Perhaps this is the area that Skins look for a free agent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corrupt3d Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 try being Miami, Atlanta or Baltimore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyron Biggums Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 I like the thought of Jansen moving to LG.. We have to get some young depth for the O line. 1st pick hopefully is a great Right DE 2nd pick CB/DT(best player available) 3rd pick DT/OL(BPA) 5th pick OL 7th pick WR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiefPowhatan17 Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 Our draft needs to go like this. 1. DE ie. Campbell or Jackson 2. CB Flowers 3. OG best available 5. OT BA 6. LB Best 7. S Best Something to that extent. But, if we have a chance to get Adibi for LB in the 2nd I would take him also. Either way we need a pass rusher, OL, and a corner. We should get our WR big body guy from Free Agency. I say either Wilford or Andre Davis who would solve our PR's also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veretax Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 Players age. Contracts become unwieldly and not all players are willing to renegotiate. I'm assuming that Williams becomes HC and keeps the same Defensive and Offensive schemes with only minor changes. While that assumption eliminates the need for drastic turnover there are still too many areas of need (present and near future) for the Skins:Offensive Line: The entire line is getting older and will need to be completely overhauled over the next 3-4 years. Jansen, Wade and Heyer will fight it out for RT. I think Jansen is the best at running blocking but Wade and Heyer are better at pass blocking. Skins may move Jansen to Guard and have him try to win a starting spot at either RG or LG (Parcells said Skins should have done that a while ago). I think the Skins need to look for a young Guard in rounds 3-4 depending upon what's available. Capable of starting in a pinch but better in year 2 to replace the then 36 yo Kendall. I know the Skins don't currently have a 4th but could get one by trading down. Wide Receiver: I think the Skins will keep Moss, Randel El, Caldwell, Thrash (4th WR, special teamer and backup H back) and Mix (assuming he works with Campbell in the offseason - his 6' 5" height will be a nice addition). Skins will look for a value pickup later in the draft rather than using a first-second rounder. That's the best scenario for use of draft picks. If we follow fan hopes for a star WR then it would likely use up another pick in rounds 1-3. TE Cooley, Yoder and Ecker - I think we are okay. Skins will look for a value pickup in the draft. Defensive End/Defensive Tackle Skins desperately need a pass rush either via better push up the middle or a better rush from the DEs. Daniels doesn't have enough left to be an effective pass rusher (either as DE or as a DT on passing downs). Griffin can't get penetration anymore due to declining skills. While Golsten could take over for Griffin over time I'm not sure he has sufficent talent to ever be dominant. The problem is that DEs available in the draft that are good pass rushers may be better suited to RDE. Other quality DEs may be gone before the Skins pick at 21. Skins could use both the first and second round picks on the DL (I know it will never happen but we can dream). Skins will use all of their contract renegotiations to get down under the cap total. There won't be much room for free agent pickups. Corner Back High quality CBs often are picked in rounds 1-2. Springs played well at the end of the season after recovering from recurring injuries. But his contract 8+ million is too high and he was unwilling last year to renegotiate. Skins will have to devote one of the their high picks to a CB unfortunately. LB Skins backups are all best suited to MLB. McIntosh will take some time to recover. Washington has been injured the last two seasons. Godfrey is good against the run but is 35. Skins need to look for a true outside linebacker. But it won't be with a high draft pick. Perhaps this is the area that Skins look for a free agent. I don't think we retain Godfrey but I could be wrong. (he's an UFA last I checked) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLEED-B&G Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 Our draft needs to go like this.1. DE ie. Campbell or Jackson 2. CB Flowers 3. OG best available 5. OT BA 6. LB Best 7. S Best Decent, I would drop Guard to 5 and pick up a WR at 3 though. With the emergence of Heyer I don't think Tackle is a need we need to address immediately. Samuels and Jansen still have a few years left in them and Heyer is there to step in as needed; that is a pretty good insurance policy. We need to go a similar route at Guard; need an insurance policy for Kendall and Thomas. Other than that looks pretty good. We MUST keep up the trend of finding capable contributors in the later rounds if we are going to continue to be successful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corrupt3d Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 Decent, I would drop Guard to 5 and pick up a WR at 3 though. With the emergence of Heyer I don't think Tackle is a need we need to address immediately. Samuels and Jansen still have a few years left in them and Heyer is there to step in as needed; that is a pretty good insurance policy. We need to go a similar route at Guard; need an insurance policy for Kendall and Thomas. Other than that looks pretty good.We MUST keep up the trend of finding capable contributors in the later rounds if we are going to continue to be successful. I agree with this, however, I really REALLY REALLY want Andrew Crummey out of MAryland. He was a second round prospect coming into this season, but dropped to third due to injury. Doubt we can snag him in the fifth. This guy played next to Heyer in college and they were a solid tandem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMahoney Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 Now that Jackson has declared... do we take him first if he drops to us? He is definitely better than sweed and has more nfl potential, just my opinion. But he'll probably be gone, and if he is can we please oh please draft d-line first round, I hope for best available between de,dt. I think we will also take care of the cb problem via free agency, rookie cb's usually take too long to have an impact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TankRizzo Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 OL and DL are a definite priority, but if there's something you should have learned from last year's draft, if a player you rated highly drops to where you're picking, you take him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny Joe Hog Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 There's just no way to address all of the needs you list, if indeed they are all needs. Realistically, we should be improved if we can get a good big receiver in the draft and a top DE in FA. I say pay the big money for Jared Allen, draft Limas Sweed in Round 1 and then pick the best available players the rest of the way in the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigredskin77 Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 Mine off season goes a little something like this. Free Agency Bernard Berrian WR bears 1st Lawrence Jackson DE USC 2nd Frank Okam DT Texas 3rd Josh Barret Safety Arizona 6th Khalid Walton G Eastern Michigan 7th Roy Schuening G Oregon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veretax Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 Decent, I would drop Guard to 5 and pick up a WR at 3 though. With the emergence of Heyer I don't think Tackle is a need we need to address immediately. Samuels and Jansen still have a few years left in them and Heyer is there to step in as needed; that is a pretty good insurance policy. We need to go a similar route at Guard; need an insurance policy for Kendall and Thomas. Other than that looks pretty good.We MUST keep up the trend of finding capable contributors in the later rounds if we are going to continue to be successful. We don't need a WR that badly and it takes 2 or three years for Olineman to get good when drafted that late... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoth Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 Our draft needs to go like this.1. DE ie. Campbell or Jackson 2. CB Flowers 3. OG best available 5. OT BA 6. LB Best 7. S Best Something to that extent. But, if we have a chance to get Adibi for LB in the 2nd I would take him also. Either way we need a pass rusher, OL, and a corner. We should get our WR big body guy from Free Agency. I say either Wilford or Andre Davis who would solve our PR's also. We need to accept we are more than a year away. Our 2 year draft plan needs to go something like this: Year 1: Trade Griffin, Cut Daniels, WR keep Moss, Mix, ARE, Caldwell. Pucillo gone, Wade Gone, T from 49ers our 2nd b-up T behind Heyer for now. Try and find some undeveloped GEM on practice squad or undrafted at WR, then cut Caldwell. Let Cartwright walk, give Mason a shot. Accept that Campbell has another year at least before he's seasoned, scuttle the old vets. Mix and our #6 pick had better learn to excel at special teams. Draft best available player. Sign servicable vet to 1-2 year deal at CB, QB. No big name FAs. No 8 million dollary per year guards. No 27 year old DEs that will be old in 2 years. No not-quite-shutdown corners looking for Clements money. We avoid the temptation, stay under cap, so we don't always have to scramble at the end of each season, and convert roster bonuses to signing, making vets cost a fortune to cut. 1. If no Calais Cambpell, trade down. LDE replace Daniels. 2. DT. Cut Griffin, start Monty, Golston, This Guy, Alexander, solid rotation, keep people fresh. 3. OG. Whoever gets hurt next season, Kendall or Thomas, gets cut, this guy starts. 4. 5. OG. To replace whoever is left out of Kendall or Thomas the year after, b-up for now. 6. WR. Big One, Possession. 7 (For Griffin). DL or OL 7 DE 7 (Compensatory, optimistically) QB Hey, we stocked the trenches for once, imagine that. Watch the fans go mad as there is no glamour skill position guy to pine about. Order might be different, but you draft OL and DL, positions that take time to get good at, and get a QB learning new system. Year 2. Kendall and Rabach are gone. Trade or cut Moss, Fletcher, Jansen and Washington for whatever you can. 1. CB or WR 2. CB or WR (End of round 2, a starting WR and CB). 3. OLB starts in place of Washington 4. C 5. CB 6. DE/DT (Cause odds say one above will be a bust) 7. LB back-up for OLB, or MLB 7. (for Moss, assuming pessimistic in all cases) T 4th back-up 7. (for Washington/Fletcher, trade one, cut one) G This is a growing pains year, going into year 3, you can now round out roster, and go after bigger name FAs again. T - Samuels, Heyer G - Drafted G1, Drafted G3 C - Rabach, Drafted C1 G - Drafted G2, Drafted G3 T - Heyer, 49ers Guy, or Drafted T1 TE, Cooley, Ecker, Gem or Reasonably Priced Veteran WR #1 - Drafted WR1, Drafted WR2 WR #2 - Mix, Drafted WR2 WR #3 - ARE, Gem or Reasonably Priced Veteran RB Portis, Betts, Mason FB Sellers or Broughton DE Drafted DE1, Drafted DE2 DT Monty, Alexander DT Golston, Drafted DT DE Carter, Drafted DE3 or Evans WLB McIntosh, Drafted LB ILB Blades, Drafted LB SLB Drafted LB CB Rogers, Smoot, Torrence, Drafted CB, Drafted CB Safety Doughty, Landry, Year 3 you scuttle Betts, draft Samuels replacement T, RB, another b-up QB, LB, C, WR and you are approaching a yound, solid roster. You round out roster with FAs, a few big ones even, and then can draft ahead, looking at what players may be old, contracts expiring, etc. Yeah, lots of its and whats, but it shows you that we are 2-3 years from being a true contender IF we make good long term choices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldskool Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 When you've had as few draft picks as this team has had in the last decade, your depth and quality will suffer. Rebuilding will take a few seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boy2Der Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 Why is everybody devaluing WR it took us until week 10 for a WR to score a TD that is pitiful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veretax Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 Very few if ANY Wrs come in and have an immediate impact. Calvin Johnson, the one everyone seemed to want of the WRs last year, spent much of the season out with an Injury, Roy Williams has been hurt, Mike williams and such got cut. Find me any Top WR in the draft the last five years and you can find 2 or 3 more that have been bombs. Not saying we under value WR, but we have guys who can work in our offense. If we improve the Oline we get more out of both our running and passing games. We need DT and DE too so you have to decide where to put the biggest Cogs into. I think we can get one more season out of Thomas/Kendal/Jansen so we can draft a guard in the 2nd or 3rd, and focus on DL in the first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLEED-B&G Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 We don't need a WR that badly and it takes 2 or three years for Olineman to get good when drafted that late... Are you kidding? We were still looking for WR into week 6 this year...we don't need a WR that badly? And if you watched the Seattle game then the need for a big play WR is obvious. How long did it take Heyer to get good this year when undrafted??? Blanket statements like this are ridiculous... But that is beside the point anyway considering what I was trying to convey...point being any o-lineman we draft would not be necessarily starting right away considering we will have Thomas and Kendall next year giving any draftees time to get in and get comfortable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stwasm Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 This is something I've mentioned before. The Redskins are FAR from being one to two players away from being contenders. The top seven offensive lineman are 31; Shawn Springs turns 34 soon and Carlos Rogers is coming off a major knee injury, making me question the strength of the cornerbacking corps; and we have no player currently on the roster who has proven himself to be a consistent complement to Santana Moss and Andre Carter at their respective positions. This is a team full of question marks and it's going to take at least two SOLID drafts to answer those questions adequately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuryYourDuke Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 You are right. That's why there is free agency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veretax Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 Are you kidding? We were still looking for WR into week 6 this year...we don't need a WR that badly? And if you watched the Seattle game then the need for a big play WR is obvious.How long did it take Heyer to get good this year when undrafted??? Blanket statements like this are ridiculous... But that is beside the point anyway considering what I was trying to convey...point being any o-lineman we draft would not be necessarily starting right away considering we will have Thomas and Kendall next year giving any draftees time to get in and get comfortable. Going after a BIG Draft pick or FA WR is a LUxury, not a need. Moss made some plays in that Seattle game, he just screwed up on a couple too. ARE has been a vast improvement over lloyd, and MIx is looking like he can be good too, Thrash will be back and he had more TDs then anyone we have on roster right now. As far as Heyer, that's not the norm, UDFA don't usually do well starting their Rookie season. Usually if you draft an OLineman in the later rounds you give them a few years of practice and seasoning before considernig them the bonafied starter. In Our case, we don't have 3 years. Kendal has one year left on his contract, and we dont' know that he will be extended. Jansen is clearly declining, and we don't know what Thomas will look like in the Offseason. that's 3 of 5 OL positions that are in flux. Now unless Lorenzo Alexander is our pick to fill the void at guard or tackle somewhere, we need to draft a Guard or Center in round two or three. I know ARE and MOSS were inconsistent this year, but the economics of the situation dictate we can't go gaga over a FA, and while we might luck into a WR in the draft, it's not a "NEED" it would be a Luxury. In My opinion though we should do the following with WR: Keep: Moss, ARE, MIX, Resign Caldwell if you can, Lloyd may get one more season, not sure. Cut: Thrash, let McCardell go. Look at: Espy to see if he's going to produce or needs cut. Draft a WR no earlier then 2nd Round, unless a real gem falls and is BPA. We have serious needs in the trenches and we have ignored our Dline for like 15 years? We have to draft some Lineman on both sides of the ball. We need 2-4 picks between both sides of the ball. Our O-line was messing up a lot in that Seattle game, and that threw Collins timing and rhythm off at times too. Improve the O-line and we can make do with what we have right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OxonHillSkinsFan89 Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 Speaking of Draft Picks are the skins in line for Compensatory Picks? (I've seen threads about this but nothing was ever confirmed). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stwasm Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 You are right. That's why there is free agency. But, this team really needs to practice grooming its own players instead of bringing in guys who may have benefitted from systems more than anything else. For every Andre Carter, Randy Thomas, Casey Rabach and Shawn Springs, you have an Adam Archuleta, Brandon Lloyd, Jeff George and Deion Sanders. This team needs to rely less on free agency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seabee1973 Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 I agree less free agency more on the draft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Touchdown Redskins Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 But, this team really needs to practice grooming its own players instead of bringing in guys who may have benefitted from systems more than anything else. For every Andre Carter, Randy Thomas, Casey Rabach and Shawn Springs, you have an Adam Archuleta, Brandon Lloyd, Jeff George and Deion Sanders. This team needs to rely less on free agency. That's true, but we don't need to ignore it completely. This draft combined with the players that are out in FA could be the most talented pool of young players we'll see in a while. Almost every position is stacked, and we would be foolish not to at least take a look at some of the less costly free agent. As the OP said, we have many more needs than draft picks, and while we can rely on the depth we've created in some areas, we definitely cannot do the same with some positions (such as guard, defensive tackle, or defensive end). If we use free agency to fill some positions, we can make free agency much more effective. For instance, if we can go after someone like Bryant Johnson (WR) and one of the corners on the market (Nnamdi Asomugha, Marcus Trufant, Asante Samuel, or Drayton Florence), then we can use the draft to take care of the offensive line and defensive line, and we would only have to splurge on one big-time free agent (one of the corners mentioned). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLEED-B&G Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 Going after a BIG Draft pick or FA WR is a LUxury, not a need. Moss made some plays in that Seattle game, he just screwed up on a couple too. ARE has been a vast improvement over lloyd, and MIx is looking like he can be good too.....while we might luck into a WR in the draft, it's not a "NEED" it would bee a Luxury. In My opinion though we should do the following with WR:Keep: Moss, ARE, MIX, Resign Caldwell if you can, Lloyd may get one more season, not sure. Cut: Thrash, let McCardell go. Look at: Espy to see if he's going to produce or needs cut. Draft a WR no earlier then 2nd Round, unless a real gem falls and is BPA. We have serious needs in the trenches and we have ignored our Dline for like 15 years? We have to draft some Lineman on both sides of the ball. We need 2-4 picks between both sides of the ball. Our O-line was messing up a lot in that Seattle game, and that threw Collins timing and rhythm off at times too. Improve the O-line and we can make do with what we have right now. Vere I'm with you on a few items.... I'm definately pro D-Line and I do feel we should go DE in round one if the player is there; and if you look at my original post I said go WR 3rd round...I'm not saying we break the bank for a WR in FA either. I am saying, however, that WR is a need and absolutely not a Luxury. Your logic is a little off in respect to the O-Line and WR....you look at one bad game for our O-Line as a sign of huge need when the line actually performed above expectation consistenly all season considering the shape it was in. You also forget how poorly our receivers performed consistenly all season; we were the only team without a TD by WR in the middle of the year doesn't that say something. And to pin the hopes of the WR position on a kid off of the NY practice squad is really grasping at straws. I hope Mix is the next Colston like everyone on this board but let's hedge our bets here and live in reality. We need a 3rd WR; look at every team still playing? How many cabaple WR do they have playing? There is only one question mark on offense; 2/3rd WR. Every position on O has a definative starter except our 2/3rd WR and I'll go out on a limb here and say 2nd WR because I feel Antwan is better suited to the slot and playing 3rd WR. The O-Line...old yes but every "starter" will be back next year and if (big IF) we get a healthy year out of that group we have one of the best in the business. Should we be bringing in O-Linemen...yes. Should we be bringing them in to start...No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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