Gator Bait Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 GW was 17-31 in his first stint as HC in Buffalo with a talented roster IMO. I'm okay with giving GW a chance but I would strongly prefer Cowher. Buffalo has been garbage ever since the sallery cap era....their owner won't pay for players, that's why they are bad! They gave up their three best players last offseason: McGahee, Fletcher, Clements. How are you supposed to win like that? I wouldn't fault Williams on his "failings" in Buffalo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jivelikenice Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 Other reasons why Gregg scares me as a coach: 1. Not stepping up during the Lindsey/Lavar fued 2. Not Stepping up during the Linsdey/Holdman fiasco 3. Not stepping up when there was an obvious disconnect between the Corners and the safeties in '06 These were all situations where a LEADER should have stepped up but GW didn't. If he can't even control his defensive staff, how do you expect him to control and entire team? You have to go into hiring the next coach with the thought that he will be the coach here for the next 10-15 years, not 2-5. Does anyone here actually think that Gregg is that guy? Cowher may not be but Gregg certainly isn't.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDSKNfaithfull Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 Why can't we have both? The fact is Cowher doesn't want to coach this year. The fact is this team deserves one more year. The fact is the whole team wants Gregg Williams. SOOOOOO why not hire Gregg Williams give him a year (don't tell him that though) see how he does if we go 10-6 or better and make a deep run in the playoffs we keep Williams if he shows his arrogant ways he showed in 06 and goes 8-8 or worse you get rid of him and hire Cowher. BRILLIANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Cowhers not going anywhere he will be there next year. What is so hard to understand. Didn't Snyder say he learned paitence???????????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDSKNfaithfull Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 Other reasons why Gregg scares me as a coach:1. Not stepping up during the Lindsey/Lavar fued 2. Not Stepping up during the Linsdey/Holdman fiasco 3. Not stepping up when there was an obvious disconnect between the Corners and the safeties in '06 These were all situations where a LEADER should have stepped up but GW didn't. If he can't even control his defensive staff, how do you expect him to control and entire team? You have to go into hiring the next coach with the thought that he will be the coach here for the next 10-15 years, not 2-5. Does anyone here actually think that Gregg is that guy? Cowher may not be but Gregg certainly isn't.... He trusted his coaches and with all due respect Joe Jackson Gibbs didn't step up either during any of those events? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sekhmet187 Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 when did heyer become a stud? and last I checked Portis, Cooley, and Campbell were the backbone of this team, you didn't even list them? I listed players that in 4 seasons from now will be the "backbone" of the team in addition to the players who are already stars. Most teams normally get a lot of backup talent that has some upside in some way or another, but the Redskins are lacking that in a big way. Obviously Cooley and Campbell have a bright future, but I didn't list them because Cooley's already a big time player anyway. As for Heyer being a stud, he has a major upside. In his first year, he played better than Jansen did, the perennial pro bowler who everyone considers a top notch tackle. He made mistakes, but hes going to get better. I couldn't possibly see how you wouldn't think he has a major upside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brasi Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 I think every minute that passes proves Snyder is AT LEAST TRYING to go another way. Let's face it: he could have done one "Rooney interview" at 9 AM and hired GW before lunch. The presser would be at 3 pm. Something's up. I've really started thinking Williams is not the solution...and that Cowher might be the answer. I've looked up William's record as a HC...and Buffalo sucked. 3-13. 8-8. 6-10. (I might be off by a game or two) If Snyder can get Cowher now let's go for it. Sorry Gregg. Carpe diem, and have fun coaching Miami. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonDepompa Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 I honestly don't see how we can go wrong with either of these guys. Cowher is proven, but will need one or two years to rebuild. Williams can step right in, and move on with the same personel, but is unproven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chump Bailey Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 I don't think that roster was all that talented - thier best players were on defense and his defenses there were always good.When his job was on the hot seat in 2003, the GM - Donahue- drafted Willis McGahee, who couldn't play for a year. How's that helping your coach? That GM was fired shortly after Williams was, and was just fired again from San Fran. I've heard Williams casually mention a few times over these last four years of things he's learned from Gibbs that he did wrong in the past. Eh, I suppose you're right jim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bacon Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 My only problem with GW being the HC is this: He is a Defensive guy - is he going to have a problem with another D coach coming in and lettling that coach teach the players his way? The new D coach can get frustrated really quick and that won't be good for the players or the team. I'm more concerned about Saunders being allowed to do his job unfettered for once. If Cowher coaches us, the offense will be changed all over again, but Williams would likely just let Saunders have his way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsey11 Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 It seems a bit ironic to me because I don't think there would be as much of a debate like this if it wasn't for Gibbs and what he brought to this franchise the past 4 seasons. Rewind 4 years and look at where the Redskins were. You had an owner that liked to call shots and sign big name players whose talents were on the decline to to big contracts to make a splash. The team was largely undisciplined and there were reports that there was a country club atmosphere in the locker room in terms of accountability and performance on the field. We had Steve Spurrier in his second season after taking after for Marty Schottenheimer who was fired after one season, and a seemingly revolving door of defensive coordinators (what did Lavar Arrington have, 4 DCs in his first 4 seasons?). So there was no continuity with the coaching staff, and no long term plan in terms of assembling a roster that fit stable offensive and defensive schemes. Enter Joe Gibbs. With the exception of adding Al Saunders as OC 2 seasons ago, the coaching staff and schemes stay largely intact, and while we don't know the degree of input of final say that Dan Snyder has had, he noticeably takes a more back seat approach from a public stand point and lets Gibbs serve as the figurehead and spokesperson for the franchise. The number of big name free agent signings declines and players are instead largely brought in who provide a better fit to the systems (for the most part, with the exceptions to situations like Archuletta). The locker room has solidified into a team and perhaps even a family environment, and players begin to play better withing the systems due to long term familiarity with them. Given where the team was 4 years ago and with Cowher being an excellent motivator and disciplinarian, I don't think many people would have had any concerns with having him come in to replace Spurrier if such a move could have been made then. A complete rebuild was in order then and long term stability was much needed. But now that the Redskins have enjoyed that for 4 seasons under Gibbs, Cowher does not look as attractive to some people because of the upheaval that his signing would likely cause to both the coaching staff and roster. So the current best choices for a successor to Joe Gibbs seem to be: 1. Williams, the long time defensive coordinator who did not succeed in his previous head coach stint. He may not be the players coach and motivator that Joe Gibbs is, but he would allow continuity and stability to continue with the franchise and might take them to the next level, and 2. Cowher, who is a proven championship coach and master motivator, but who would start to rebuild things to fit his own vision and may not build a championship caliber team for a few years. His track record might might give him the influence needed to keep Snyder from serving as defacto GM and making all the roster decisions as he had done prior to Joe Gibbs return. Both offer the Redskins many things, but both have risks. I think a few years ago I would have really welcomed Cowher and what he offers, and while I have been critical of Gregg Williams and his perceived arrogance and poor record as a head coach, given what Joe Gibbs has built here he seems to be the one that I most trust to manage the keys to the castle. He was here, afterall, the past 4 seasons to watch Gibbs build it brick by brick. I say we give Williams the same chance that Petibon was given. If Cowher wants to wait one more season before returning to the coaching ranks, then let's promote Williams to HC for a season and see if the team building and performance continues to improve. If not, then you can always let him go this time next year and hire Cowher to come in and rebuild. Just my :2cents: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PapaRora Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 Williams is a Redskin! Cowher is NOT. He will come back for only money. Williams will coach out of his love, passion, and us fans. If Dan Snyder goes with anyone but Greg Williams, Redskins are not even worth following anymore because we would have lost the very essence of the team that we have all supported for decades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IONTOP Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 2. Cowher, who is a proven championship coach and master motivator, but who would start to rebuild things to fit his own vision and may not build a championship caliber team for a few years. His track record might might give him the influence needed to keep Snyder from serving as defacto GM and making all the roster decisions as he had done prior to Joe Gibbs return. What about just rebuilding next season to get out of "Cap Hell" and let Cowher take over in 09 with a lot of cap room to work with... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetSkins Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 What about just rebuilding next season to get out of "Cap Hell" and let Cowher take over in 09 with a lot of cap room to work with... cap hell will never be escaped Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeB Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 Tough call. Certainly William knowledge of this team is real intriguing but the failure in Buffalo lloms but so what! Belicheck failed in Cleveland, it happens and it may drive Gregg more. Debunking the myth: The BROWNS went 11-5 in 1994, their 4th year under Billichick. They lost 3x to Pittsburgh (Cohwer) which is why Billichick was given the boot. He was clearly up and coming even then... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sekhmet187 Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 What about just rebuilding next season to get out of "Cap Hell" and let Cowher take over in 09 with a lot of cap room to work with... That would make too much sense for the Redskins to do. They HAVE to make the move that works for the here and now and not take into account the future. Having said that, I don't think Cowher will coach this year anyway, I think hes adament about staying out of the game, but if he would I'd take him over Williams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voicekiller Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 That would make too much sense for the Redskins to do. They HAVE to make the move that works for the here and now and not take into account the future.Having said that, I don't think Cowher will coach this year anyway, I think hes adament about staying out of the game, but if he would I'd take him over Williams. I agree...GW will always be in Joe Gibbs' shadow and will be critisized every inch of the way...Cowher is the smoothest transition possible...bring in a future HOF coach to replace a HOF coach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregW8705 Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 Williams is a Redskin! Cowher is NOT.He will come back for only money. Williams will coach out of his love, passion, and us fans. If Dan Snyder goes with anyone but Greg Williams, Redskins are not even worth following anymore because we would have lost the very essence of the team that we have all supported for decades. How is Williams a Redskin? He's been here a handful of years, is everyone who comes for four years a Redskin? In that case, let's hire Cowher and when the magical four year mark hits, then he'll be a Redskin. I don't know why we think Williams is such a diehard Skin. He's just doing his job. Would your work promote you because you did your job there for four years if someone who was much better at the job they'd be promoting you to was interested in that position? So Gregg Williams wore our logo for four years, so have a lot of people, and they're not qualified to be coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toe Jam Posted January 9, 2008 Author Share Posted January 9, 2008 So what exactly is the punishment for going over the salary cap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sekhmet187 Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 How the hell will the Redskins ever find a good coach then if Williams isn't the next Gibbs? If its based on coaching for love, then quit watching football. EVERYONE has passion for the game, some just have more than others. But to say that Cowher would only be coaching for money would be like saying Gibbs only came back for money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sekhmet187 Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 So what exactly is the punishment for going over the salary cap? As far as I know, its a loss of a draft pick and you still can't really play without getting under the cap. I don't know for sure though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCranon21 Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 My only problem with GW being the HC is this: He is a Defensive guy - is he going to have a problem with another D coach coming in and lettling that coach teach the players his way? The new D coach can get frustrated really quick and that won't be good for the players or the team. That's when you promote either Jerry Gray or Blatche(sp) for DC. They already know the philosophy. Let Saunders run the O, and we have a 11-5 or better team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDALERT Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 I just don't think the Redskins have enough talent on the roster to compete for more than the 1st round of playoffs for the next 2 or 3 years. And I don't see them having a bright future with only 5 or 6 real young studs on the team. Heyer, Rocky, Landry, Montgomery, Wilson and Golston are really the only big up and coming players, and out of that list, I only see Landry and Montgomery being at a pro bowl level in a few years. I think if Gibbs had drafted better in his 4 seasons, I'd feel better about Williams just continuing on the same path, but I really think Gibbs' influence was the only reason (aside from playing for Sean Taylor) the players played above their talent and went to the playoffs, finishing strong. This is the same team that played horrible last year, couldn't keep a lead this year and went from 5-3 and a potential 3rd seed, to losing their stride even before the Taylor tragedy. I think Williams has shown hes a good coordinator, but I wouldn't want to bank the future on the guy. If Cowher is staying put for a year, I'd experiment with Williams and if its obvious the team isn't a superbowl contender, you blow it up and let Cowher have the reins for the next 5-7 years. I just think Cowher has more experience as a head coach and would be a better fit, since his experience with getting cheap no name talent to perform at pro bowl levels would do wonders under Snyder who would buy him any player his heart would want. BINGO, now this youngster understands what's in front of us Cowher is the best choice to build upon.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertoskins Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 people. we are now seeing a different GW. being groomed and learned from Joe Gibbs. let him be the HC atleast for a year then well see from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IONTOP Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 Here's the main difference..... Williams: If hired plans on coaching Cowher: Does not plan on coaching (per USA Today) The choice is clear.... I'd like a coach that coaches... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jivelikenice Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 Why can't we have both? The fact is Cowher doesn't want to coach this year. The fact is this team deserves one more year. The fact is the whole team wants Gregg Williams. SOOOOOO why not hire Gregg Williams give him a year (don't tell him that though) see how he does if we go 10-6 or better and make a deep run in the playoffs we keep Williams if he shows his arrogant ways he showed in 06 and goes 8-8 or worse you get rid of him and hire Cowher. BRILLIANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Cowhers not going anywhere he will be there next year. What is so hard to understand. Didn't Snyder say he learned paitence???????????? Completely wrong attitude. You don't hire coaches with the thought that you may fire them a year down the road if the don't live up to expectations. The next coach should be hired with the thought they they'll be here for the long haul. You ONLY hire GW if you think he's that guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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