The 2008 offense could be very explosive

[gorebd82]

I just read in WP that Collins is so successful because of his internal clock and that understanding of the system. He is obviously not as talented as JC. I guarantee that we'll look up next year and Campbell will be putting up the same kind of numbers. While I’m focused on the now, I can’t help but be excited about the promise that the current success of the offense shows for 2008.

Honestly, I think this situation is the best thing that can happen to Campbell and the team. Now JC and everyone else on the team can operate with the confidence of seeing that the offense works if executed properly. That will give the entire offense the incentive to master the system.

I'm 100% behind Jason Campbell. Don't worry about Campbell's confidence, he knows that it is his team. I think we've seen enough of his physical abilities and intangibles to know that he's the real deal. You have to understand that he's only 20 games into his career.

Yes he's had a fumbling problem and some interceptions, but all of that will be cured with time. The term about "the game slowing down" is something that will gradually occur for him. As he gains a better understanding of the system and especially more experience, his reads will come that split second earlier that makes the difference between a fumble/interception or a completion.

With Campbell's physical gifts and clear dedication as a student of the game plus the tutelage of Saunders and Collins and another full off-season of studying under his belt, I am convinced that shortly he will execute better than we could have ever imagined.

I’m also seeing that Collins play is helping CP flourish in DC. The use of check downs allows Portis to operate more like Brian Westbrook and open up the offense overall. As Campbell witnesses the success of the dump offs, he will have faith in the potential of check downs rather than forcing the ball downfield.

Portis is still one of the most talented backs in the league, but has been a bad fit for the Skins offense. Despite his struggles, he’s still racked up over 4,000 rushing yards in his 3 full seasons. If we utilize his skill set in the way we have the last few games, he could be the 2,000+ yards from scrimmage back that we all hoped for.

With the offense focused on those cornerstones pieces plus a healthy O-Line, the depth we’ve discovered at receiver, the continued rise of Cooley as an elite TE, the most devastating lead blocker in the league, better opportunities for Betts due to an opened up offense, and maybe a couple of talented young players through the draft, I see a very explosive offense that can be a notch below the Pats and Colts.

[BLEED-B&G]

I completely agree with you...

Seeing Collins operate this offense is only going to help JC, this will end up being a good thing in the long run. It will give Campbell film to study and mechanics to work on in the offseason.

If he puts in another offseason like he did this year he will be ready to take another step in the right direction next year.

The fumbling is only an issue because JC holds on to the ball too long looking for an open receiver. Once he can get rid of the ball quicker the fumbles will decrease.

[Papabear]

Im still curious on why people say Todd Collins doesnt have as much talent as Jason Campbell? Look what TC has done for us compared to JC. I was never and will never be a Campbell fan. Collins is my hero for the 2007 season because I know damn well if JC was still playing (healthy) we MAYBE would have had 6 wins. Go Todd Collins and thanks for GETTING THE JOB DONE...that JC couldnt do.

[ttr77]

I think the team would be more explosive with TC in '08.

[mel25]

you bring up some good points. even though campbell sat and watched for two years, it might help that he's sittin some more after playin. i remember prioleau said that after sittin out that year after his injury he had a better grasp of the mental part of the game. maybe while campbell is on the sideline this time he will look for things that he didn't look for the last time. or maybe seein collins run the offense correctly will help more than seein brunell run it half right. if he dedicates his self this off-season like he did last off-season, i don't see why he wouldn't make a big jump.

[SearchHorizon]

Im still curious on why people say Todd Collins doesnt have as much talent as Jason Campbell? Look what TC has done for us compared to JC. I was never and will never be a Campbell fan. Collins is my hero for the 2007 season because I know damn well if JC was still playing (healthy) we MAYBE would have had 6 wins. Go Todd Collins and thanks for GETTING THE JOB DONE...that JC couldnt do.

I find that strange also.

People seem to think that the armstrength & mobility is the only measure of athletic talent. But there is intelligence, ability to think quickly, throw ball accurately, etc.

[Riggo-toni]

Campbell can come back in '09 if Collins retires/falters.

Hopefully we re-sign Collins to start next year.

[Papabear]

I find that strange also.

People seem to think that the armstrength & mobility is the only measure of athletic talent. But there is intelligence, ability to think quickly, throw ball accurately, etc.

And here is a revised post of what I said.

Thanks SH.

[ttr77]

Ok, this is an honest question. I keep reading in various posts that JC is still playing his first 'real' season so his mistakes are somewhat excusable - that there is only so much 'learning' you can do from the sideline without actual game experience.

Yet, many people are also saying that he will learn a lot over the offseason and be ready to roll in '08. How can he learn so much more in the upcoming offseason that he didn't learn in the last 3 years? Why would the light suddenly 'turn on', so to speak?

[taylorcoreskin]

I find that strange also.

People seem to think that the armstrength & mobility is the only measure of athletic talent. But there is intelligence, ability to think quickly, throw ball accurately, etc.

LOL. People on here are assessing Campbell with what's typically used to asses positions like linebacker or receiver. This is because if they were to assess Campbell with what's fundamental to the quarterback position they would be forced to identify that he was hurting the team this year and that Collins is uncontestably superior as a quarterback. If they were both linebackers JC would probably be better. If they were both running backs JC would probably be better. If they were both wideouts JC would probably be better. When it comes to being a quarterback? TC is better.

[Cooley4President]

I think that we'll be explosive either way next year. They said alot last year that the Saunders offense takes a few years to learn, and we're seeing that now. I think Campbell is a smart enough QB and cool enough under pressure to adjust to making the right types of throws, even with a rush. He never had the luxury of watching someone execute the offense properly until he watched Collins recently. I'm going to hang my hat on Campbell recovering enough and learning enough to be very productive next season.

[mel25]

I find that strange also.

People seem to think that the armstrength & mobility is the only measure of athletic talent. But there is intelligence, ability to think quickly, throw ball accurately, etc.

the thing is you can teach some one to be think quickly and make the correct reads. you can't teach speed and arm strength. campbell can learn all of the things that collins has, but collins will never have the physical attributes that campbell has. now that doesn't make him better, nor does it automatically mean he will win games, but it's less you have to work on.

[Papabear]

This is a good place for this.

"Collins: NFC Offensive player of the month."

http://www.redskins.com/news/newsDetail.jsp?id=33581

[Papabear]

the thing is you can teach some one to be think quickly and make the correct reads. you can't teach speed and arm strength. campbell can learn all of the things that collins has, but collins will never have the physical attributes that campbell has. now that doesn't make him better, nor does it automatically mean he will win games, but it's less you have to work on.

Well if physical attributes don't necessarily win you games, then why would you have to work on anything at all? Todd Collins is winning us games plane and simple.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Im still curious on why people say Todd Collins doesnt have as much talent as Jason Campbell? Look what TC has done for us compared to JC. I was never and will never be a Campbell fan.

That pretty much answers your question...

And Collins himself would probably agree that he doesn't have the physical skills that JC has...he's nowhere near as mobile or athletic, his arm strength is noticeably less that Campbells...but he makes up for it by knowing the system inside and out and by making excellent decisions. Things like arm strength and mobility can't be taught, but the mental and timing aspect of the game that Collins is excelling at definitely can be. I have no doubts whatsoever that Campbell will learn it, and we'll soon see this same offense being run in an even more explosive fashion.

Put another way: do you REALLY think Collins would have been playing this well during his third year in the league and his second season learning this system? I have no idea why some people treat Collins as if he was drafted right along with Campbell, as if they're both on the exact same learning curve. He (and the Skins offense) is benefitting from Collins' 10 years of being on the bench and his 5 years of learning Saunders' offense.

[Papabear]

That pretty much answers your question...

And Collins himself would probably agree that he doesn't have the physical skills that JC has...he's nowhere near as mobile or athletic, his arm strength is noticeably less that Campbells...but he makes up for it by knowing the system inside and out and by making excellent decisions. Things like arm strength and mobility can't be taught, but the mental and timing aspect of the game that Collins is excelling at definitely can be. I have no doubts whatsoever that Campbell will learn it, and we'll soon see this same offense being run in an even more explosive fashion.

Put another way: do you REALLY think Collins would have been playing this well during his third year in the league and his second season learning this system? I have no idea why some people treat Collins as if he was drafted right along with Campbell, as if they're both on the exact same learning curve. He (and the Skins offense) is benefitting from Collins' 10 years of being on the bench and his 5 years of learning Saunders' offense.

So the right thing to do would to be bench Campbell for about 7 or 8 more years and he will be as good as TC.

[mel25]

Well if physical attributes don't necessarily win you games, then why would you have to work on anything at all? Todd Collins is winning us games plane and simple.

sorry sir, but i don't understand your question. everybody in the nfl has work on a number of things every day no matter how physically gifted they are. all i'm sayin is that those things can not be taught. but i do agree, todd collins is winning us games.

[Riggo-toni]

the thing is you can teach some one to be think quickly and make the correct reads. you can't teach speed and arm strength.

This was the reasoning behind the Rams drafting Tony Banks, the Ravens trading for him, and Schotfer brains passing over Trent Dilfer to scoop him up. Not too successful.

There are myriad examples of physically gifted QBs who simply can't be taught to think quickly and make the correct reads. Vision and accuracy are talents as much as speed and arm strength. Maybe Campbell will get it, but there's an equal chance he won't. Lock Collins up for the next 2 years just to be sure, since he's got "it".

[krsone]

Im still curious on why people say Todd Collins doesnt have as much talent as Jason Campbell? Look what TC has done for us compared to JC.

because they dont really know football. i mean the evidence is right there in front of their faces but they dont get it. when they say JC is the better QB, i think they mean that he is younger and more athletic. Being a good QB has nothing to do with being athletic (although it helps) as brady and manning has shown. to me, a good QB is those who can read the defense, have good vision, find open receviers, know how to step in the pocket, that could side step , has a quick release , and know the system regardless whos it is.

I was never and will never be a Campbell fan.

Im a JC fan and i called for his name when brunell was stinking it up. Now that ive had the opportunity to watch him play and start, regardless of his age, he doesnt fit this system well. he doesnt know how to side step, doesnt step in the pocket, and he rarely finds open receivers. the timing and release of his ball is off. he doesnt have a quick release. his short passing game is way off. i guess saunders wasnt kidding when he said campbell isnt getting the system last yr. it's leaving a sour taste in my mouth that we spent out 1 rd pick to get JC. ive not giving up him yet and hopefully we can get the most out of 1st rd pick we used on JC.

Collins is my hero for the 2007 season because I know damn well if JC was still playing (healthy) we MAYBE would have had 6 wins.

I think collins is everyones hero this yr. what he is doing is crazy and yes based on what he has done, we could easily say, we couldve won more games this yr.

[Papabear]

sorry sir, but i don't understand your question. everybody in the nfl has work on a number of things every day no matter how physically gifted they are. all i'm sayin is that those things can not be taught. but i do agree, todd collins is winning us games.

Well the way you made it sound it sounded as if TC will never be Physically "gifted" as JC and I was simply saying why does it matter if Physical attributes don't necessarily win you games? Thats what I meant.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

So the right thing to do would to be bench Campbell for about 7 or 8 more years and he will be as good as TC.

The right thing to do would be to have patience with JC after seeing how well patience has benefitted Collins in his career. A year ago everyone was calling for Collins to be cut and saying "He's been a back up all his life for a reason". It's a good thing the men who run this team are able to think beyond the hear and now, because it seems many of the fans sure can't.

[krsone]

I find that strange also.

People seem to think that the armstrength & mobility is the only measure of athletic talent. But there is intelligence, ability to think quickly, throw ball accurately, etc.

exactly.

[CRobi21]

I guess this is the TC lovers/JC haters hang out thread. Where's tcs at?

[Papabear]

The right thing to do would be to have patience with JC after seeing how well patience has benefitted Collins in his career. A year ago everyone was calling for Collins to be cut and saying "He's been a back up all his life for a reason". It's a good thing the men who run this team are able to think beyond the hear and now, because it seems many of the fans sure can't.

Yeah well the hear and now is when we need to win the games and Jason Campbell sure as hell didnt do it for us. Tom Brady was a back-up and now he is one of the best QB's in the NFL. I'm not saying Todd Collins is a Tom Brady, but why in the world would you say "Tom Brady is playing hella good, but next season we are going to put Bledsoe back in." Sorry, but it's the same thing with TC and JC. If TC takes us throught he playoffs, JC needs to sit a wee bit longer.

[mel25]

This was the reasoning behind the Rams drafting Tony Banks, the Ravens trading for him, and Schotfer brains passing over Trent Dilfer to scoop him up. Not too successful.

There are myriad examples of physically gifted QBs who simply can't be taught to think quickly and make the correct reads. Vision and accuracy are talents as much as speed and arm strength. Maybe Campbell will get it, but there's an equal chance he won't. Lock Collins up for the next 2 years just to be sure, since he's got "it".

you're absolutely right, but i never said it will always work, i'm just sayin teachin the mental part is possible, and teachin the physical part is almost impossible. all of collins' strengths can be taught, campbell may never learn them, but they can be taught. that's all i'm sayin.